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PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by SW20S
It will be fine lol. Lots of cars running around with this tech too, where are all the accidents? Tesla has had accidents, but thats because they misrepresented their system as being "autopilot" and people don't have common sense.
When will it be safe to sleep when the car is driving? Its a ways off but the day will come.
At this rate looks like people owning their own car will be less and less. Either ride sharing takes over or fully autonomous vehicles all over the world, I can't say I am looking forward to this but it is what it is.
8746735[/url]]At this rate looks like people owning their own car will be less and less. Either ride sharing takes over or fully autonomous vehicles all over the world, I can't say I am looking forward to this but it is what it is.
It will be a LONG time before cars are fully autonomous, these will remain driving aids for the foreseeable future.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by SW20S
It will be a LONG time before cars are fully autonomous, these will remain driving aids for the foreseeable future.
What do you think of ride share and the future for that? I don't know I already see personal ownership of vehicles decreasing here in Canada as a reference point. That said, that must also have to do with the economy.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
I mean getting autonomous planes (like autopilot) in the sky is easy which was done long ago. I wonder how the autopilot on existing planes will react when there are more traffic like flying cars for example.
Back on the ground though, I mean there are way too many factors to consider (pedestrians, lane markings, weather, signals, judgement call (the save a pet or human type of thing), potholes, construction, buildings, stop signs, laws and regulations, speed limits (I mean as long as there is one still manual vehicle driven by a driver, the computer can't communicate with that vehicle's computer which makes the driving not as predictable let's say every single vehicle is autonomous, there is also the risk of these vehicles being hacked etc. and then cause multiple vehicle collision, more congestion, ), and it is just not at all same compared to autopilot in the sky.
Last edited by W205C43PFL; 03-26-2023 at 10:28 AM.
I mean getting autonomous planes (like autopilot) in the sky is easy which was done long ago. I wonder how the autopilot on existing planes will react when there are more traffic like flying cars for example.
Back on the ground though, I mean there are way too many factors to consider (pedestrians, lane markings, weather, signals, judgement call (the save a pet or human type of thing), potholes, construction, buildings, stop signs, laws and regulations, speed limits (I mean as long as there is one still manual vehicle driven by a driver, the computer can't communicate with that vehicle's computer which makes the driving not as predictable let's say every single vehicle is autonomous, there is also the risk of these vehicles being hacked etc. and then cause multiple vehicle collision, more congestion, ), and it is just not at all same compared to autopilot in the sky.
My wife saw the head of MercedesBenz USA speak, a few years ago (I have no idea of who it was) and they raised a valid point that has stuck with me.
Q: What is the cause of car accidents?
A: Human error
Therefore, if you remove the human component, and replace it with a computer, you can reduce that number of accidents. Of course software has bugs, and code is written by humans. However, it’s just another input into this discussion.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by will_atl
My wife saw the head of MercedesBenz USA speak, a few years ago (I have no idea of who it was) and they raised a valid point that has stuck with me.
Q: What is the cause of car accidents?
A: Human error
Therefore, if you remove the human component, and replace it with a computer, you can reduce that number of accidents. Of course software has bugs, and code is written by humans. However, it’s just another input into this discussion.
Another input into this discussion for sure.
re: humans, looks like the majority cases of human error I further found was due to impaired or distracted driving, for the former, alcohol testing before vehicle is allowed to start may help (forgot what that device is called) , it is annoying but it can save lives or maybe there is a way for them to implement it so it is both effective and not annoying, maybe at least start with high risk group like those repeat offenders?
Or we could actually properly train drivers and make the barrier of entry higher than a spin around the block. Getting a driver's license in the USA takes very little qualification and if you don't pass the written test you can just keep trying. You can even take it in any language, even though road signs are in English only. Then once you have the driver's license you don't have to re-qualify until you reach a certain age, and then it's mostly to show that your eye sight is still sufficient, but nobody tests reaction etc. In Europe they have started to re-qualify elder. If I remember correctly, starting at 70 years old, you have to prove every 2 years that you are still qualified to operate a vehicle.
What do you think of ride share and the future for that? I don't know I already see personal ownership of vehicles decreasing here in Canada as a reference point. That said, that must also have to do with the economy.
We're a long way off from that if it ever happens.
Originally Posted by W205C43PFL
Back on the ground though, I mean there are way too many factors to consider (pedestrians, lane markings, weather, signals, judgement call (the save a pet or human type of thing), potholes, construction, buildings, stop signs, laws and regulations, speed limits (I mean as long as there is one still manual vehicle driven by a driver, the computer can't communicate with that vehicle's computer which makes the driving not as predictable let's say every single vehicle is autonomous, there is also the risk of these vehicles being hacked etc. and then cause multiple vehicle collision, more congestion, ), and it is just not at all same compared to autopilot in the sky.
This is why automated driving on highways is a lot easier than surface roads. The answer lies in AI, the computers will be able to make decisions based on the variables that are thrown at it. If you ever drive in a Tesla with full self driving that CAN drive itself on surface roads, its pretty incredible...would I use that technology yet? Not yet...but the time will come. Something like SuperCruise on the highway I have no reservations about now.
Originally Posted by superswiss
Or we could actually properly train drivers and make the barrier of entry higher than a spin around the block. Getting a driver's license in the USA takes very little qualification and if you don't pass the written test you can just keep trying. You can even take it in any language, even though road signs are in English only. Then once you have the driver's license you don't have to re-qualify until you reach a certain age, and then it's mostly to show that your eye sight is still sufficient, but nobody tests reaction etc. In Europe they have started to re-qualify elder. If I remember correctly, starting at 70 years old, you have to prove every 2 years that you are still qualified to operate a vehicle.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by SW20S
We're a long way off from that if it ever happens.
I think it will be a thing earlier and/or common in certain countries than North America for example. In Canada however Mercedes did test something called Car2Go in Canada back in 2017 but that didn't end up well, so far no other company is trying ride share.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by SW20S
This is why automated driving on highways is a lot easier than surface roads. The answer lies in AI, the computers will be able to make decisions based on the variables that are thrown at it. If you ever drive in a Tesla with full self driving that CAN drive itself on surface roads, its pretty incredible...would I use that technology yet? Not yet...but the time will come. Something like SuperCruise on the highway I have no reservations about now.
There were multiple accidents reported with Tesla's autopilot, it is far from ready.
Although some are because people are literally falling asleep, the marketing was the issue like you mentioned, shouldn't have called autopilot, it is far less advanced than any autopilot on a modern aircraft.
Driver still needs to be attentive to the wheel, I don't trust this technology yet. Even those with Lidar, there are so many factors to consider as previously mentioned, any impairment in the sensor will also be a risk of the computer making a wrong decision.
There were multiple accidents reported with Tesla's autopilot, it is far from ready.
Although some are because people are literally falling asleep, the marketing was the issue like you mentioned, shouldn't have called autopilot, it is far less advanced than any autopilot on a modern aircraft.
Driver still needs to be attentive to the wheel, I don't trust this technology yet. Even those with Lidar, there are so many factors to consider as previously mentioned, any impairment in the sensor will also be a risk of the computer making a wrong decision.
The biggest issue with Tesla Autopilot and FSD is Musk's ill-advised decision to get rid of the radar sensor, because he wanted to cut cost. Right after that decision, the number of Autopilot incidents went up dramatically. The following article was in the news the other day shedding light on the whole thing. Former employees are now speaking out about how bad the decision was and how anybody disagreeing with it basically was fired. They are pointing out the inherent issues of relaying just on cameras which can get blinded by sunlight etc.
There were multiple accidents reported with Tesla's autopilot, it is far from ready.
The reason for that is Tesla was reckless in how they marketed the function, should never have been called "Autopilot" and shouldn't be called "Full self driving". Note, the accidents you hear about are Teslas...not Mercedes or Cadillacs etc.
Driver still needs to be attentive to the wheel, I don't trust this technology yet. Even those with Lidar, there are so many factors to consider as previously mentioned, any impairment in the sensor will also be a risk of the computer making a wrong decision.
Its not designed for you not to be attentive to the wheel. Nothing yet exists where the driver is not supposed to be attentive at the wheel. At its core, its just driving fown the road keeping the car between the lanes...any decisions are made by you.
There are different levels of automation, all of these systems are still level 2:
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by superswiss
The biggest issue with Tesla Autopilot and FSD is Musk's ill-advised decision to get rid of the radar sensor, because he wanted to cut cost. Right after that decision, the number of Autopilot incidents went up dramatically. The following article was in the news the other day shedding light on the whole thing. Former employees are now speaking out about how bad the decision was and how anybody disagreeing with it basically was fired. They are pointing out the inherent issues of relaying just on cameras which can get blinded by sunlight etc.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by SW20S
The reason for that is Tesla was reckless in how they marketed the function, should never have been called "Autopilot" and shouldn't be called "Full self driving". Note, the accidents you hear about are Teslas...not Mercedes or Cadillacs etc.
Its not designed for you not to be attentive to the wheel. Nothing yet exists where the driver is not supposed to be attentive at the wheel. At its core, its just driving fown the road keeping the car between the lanes...any decisions are made by you.
There are different levels of automation, all of these systems are still level 2:
Thank you I am aware of the different levels of autonomous driving though, my issue and hence why I mentioned the non-attentive to the steering wheel was because of the marketing "autopilot" which I know was false, I didn't say it was designed so you can be non-attentive I am saying that is why people were falling asleep, because of such marketing and driver needs to be attentive to the steering wheel hence why I don't trust this technology (or marketing in this case) Sorry for the confusion.
Wasn't aware they removed the radar sensor, ugh what were they thinking I guess profit over human lives ugh...
You mean what was he thinking? The decision single-handedly came from Musk and as you can read in the article, the team was shocked. Just goes to show how reckless Musk's management style is and he's not as smart as many people make him out to be. Just ask former engineers who worked with him. Apparently Musk isn't aware that it snows and rains quite a bit outside of California. There are many things about Teslas that make it very obvious the car was designed in sunny California. For example, there's a burgeoning industry in Europe to winter and weatherproof Teslas, because they aren't from the factory. A good example is how hollow parts and cavities in German vehicles are filled with foam, so that moisture doesn't get in there and start corroding the body from the inside out. Tesla's don't have this, at least not the US built ones. Some of the shops have YouTube channels showing the many issues with Tesla's build quality, but it's also interesting that the Chinese and German built Teslas are unsurprisingly of better quality. I haven't watched those channels in a while, so now that Germany basically gets their Teslas from the Berlin-Brandenburg factory, this may no longer be an issue. There has also finally been a software update so that Autopilot recognizes the speed limit signs correctly in Europe. That's been a long ongoing issue and complaint. Musk got in a tussle with Mobileye, the Israeli company that supplies the traffic-sign recognition technology to pretty much all car manufacturers, but they kicked Tesla off the island and Tesla couldn't get their own system to work properly for years. It may have worked in the USA ok, but not abroad.
Last edited by superswiss; 03-26-2023 at 06:44 PM.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by superswiss
You mean what was he thinking? The decision single-handedly came from Musk and as you can read in the article, the team was shocked. Just goes to show how reckless Musk's management style is and he's not as smart as many people make him out to be. Just ask former engineers who worked with him. Apparently Musk isn't aware that it snows and rains quite a bit outside of California. There are many things about Teslas that make it very obvious the car was designed in sunny California. For example, there's a burgeoning industry in Europe to winter and weatherproof Teslas, because they aren't from the factory. A good example is how hollow parts and cavities in German vehicles are filled with foam, so that moisture doesn't get in there and start corroding the body from the inside out. Tesla's don't have this, at least not the US built ones. Some of the shops have YouTube channels showing the many issues with Tesla's build quality, but it's also interesting that the Chinese and German built Teslas are unsurprisingly of better quality. I haven't watched those channels in a while, so now that Germany basically gets their Teslas from the Berlin-Brandenburg factory, this may no longer be an issue. There has also finally been a software update so that Autopilot recognizes the speed limit signs correctly in Europe. That's been a long ongoing issue and complaint. Musk got in a tussle with Mobileye, the Israeli company that supplies the traffic-sign recognition technology to pretty much all car manufacturers, but they kicked Tesla off the island and Tesla couldn't get their own system to work properly for years. It may have worked in the USA ok, but not abroad.
Very interesting, I really did not know that so thank you for telling me this, this is interesting stuff and I am surprised to hear about the market differences like these.
03-25-2023, 05:00 PM
