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Funny, I just got rid of my 2022 Tesla before buying the Mercedes. Tesla was by far, the worst car I’ve ever owned. And the best part, worst customer service I’ve ever had too. To each their own though.
Originally Posted by Wolfman
We replaced our 2015 S550 with a 2018 E63s.
Those were not comparable in any way. The AMG was more expensive, drove like a brick and felt cheap inside compared to exclusive Nappa in the S.
But the experience was very different on purpose and designed that way (apart from the plastic bits in the E-class).
The E43 had a regular V6 engine and standard 9 speed tranny and the suspension was softer than the 63 but I would consider that an interesting car to test drive. Definitely a desirable car for many.
In terms of reliability I think both are reliable but adding a 3rd party warranty is always a smart idea.
Before getting an appliance like an Accord I have to admit that a Tesla model 3 or Y seems like a better deal.
The newer Accords are super roomy. The back seat offers pretty much the same leg room and interior space as the S560, albeit a bit narrower. And I think the trunk space is actually larger and more useable in the Accord. The 2.0T motor is quite quick (0-60 in low-mid 5's and gets excellent gas mileage). Biggest drawback is FWD and CVT, but you've been used to that, so no big deal I suppose. It certainly won't perform like an E43, but it's much more comfortable & roomy and a much better daily driver.
lol… good call. While that’s true, I think her preference is mainly about being a new car (from the prospective of being modern). 2020-2022 should be fine. She’s not being picky with this buy, nor that she cares that match, but I kinda like to make it a family decision, just so I can be selfish in other instances (i.e.: when trading my own dailydrive, lol).
In fact, I hate to be a beta tester of the new accord, in case they end up having any issues. So, a 2020-2022 model year, which is from the previous generation makes more sense on the reliability and certainty side. Thought, I think Japanese cars don’t have the same risk/issues of German cars wherein the 1st year of any gen might have more issues than other years. I also don’t think that I want to wait too much for a car, and I assume the new generation of Accords that got revealed just a few months ago (2023? Or 2024?) might need a few months to arrive if they are as busy as Toyota. I need to have a new 3rd/4th car house in my garage before the end of the month or no later than July 4th to be specific.
lol… good call. While that’s true, I think her preference is mainly about being a new car (from the prospective of being modern). 2020-2022 should be fine. She’s not being picky with this buy, nor that she cares that match, but I kinda like to make it a family decision, just so I can be selfish in other instances (i.e.: when trading my own dailydrive, lol).
In fact, I hate to be a beta tester of the new accord, in case they end up having any issues. So, a 2020-2022 model year, which is from the previous generation makes more sense on the reliability and certainty side. Thought, I think Japanese cars don’t have the same risk/issues of German cars wherein the 1st year of any gen might have more issues than other years. I also don’t think that I want to wait too much for a car, and I assume the new generation of Accords that got revealed just a few months ago (2023? Or 2024?) might need a few months to arrive if they are as busy as Toyota. I need to have a new 3rd/4th car house in my garage before the end of the month or no later than July 4th to be specific.
Weird question, but have you thought about a genesis? Great 10 year drivetrain warranty & really plush ride.
Weird question, but have you thought about a genesis? Great 10 year drivetrain warranty & really plush ride.
Originally Posted by cnco
What about a E400/E450 wagon? Not the 4 cylinder and lots of room
I have thought about many other options too, but honestly, the only options other than the Accord that I’ll look at would be the E450 now (even the E43 is out now based on what I heard). This is not my daily drive nor a weekend/fund drive, so I just want a reliable practical full-size dump sedan that is also good looking and comfortable while being practical. Luxury and other stuff are 2ndry. I thought about the E43 to add the fun/weekend element, but it doesn’t seem to be an option that would last 10-15 yrs without issues for a 3rd/4rth car at the house.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by S_W222
I have thought about many other options too, but honestly, the only options other than the Accord that I’ll look at would be the E450 now (even the E43 is out now based on what I heard). This is not my daily drive nor a weekend/fund drive, so I just want a reliable practical full-size dump sedan that is also good looking and comfortable while being practical. Luxury and other stuff are 2ndry. I thought about the E43 to add the fun/weekend element, but it doesn’t seem to be an option that would last 10-15 yrs without issues for a 3rd/4rth car at the house.
Regarding a V6 M276 powertrain, this is the most reliable that MB has built in the past 10-15 years. This includes 3.5L NA and 3.0L TT versions. Models would be E350, E400, E43 and (I think) E450. MB recycled some model designations with updated engines so it’s possible to confuse them in the 2018-2019-2020 time frame.
AMGs I don’t see an issue with if you can tolerate the harsher ride and potentially more expensive AMG-unique replacement parts costs.
Avoid the 2.0L M274/M264/M254 four banger. The 3.0L M256 in-line 6 cylinder seems OK as an engine, but unfortunately it uses the problematic 48V system, and it is a new powertrain. New + 48V = avoid and do not buy imo.
Regarding a V6 M276 powertrain, this is the most reliable that MB has built in the past 10-15 years. This includes 3.5L NA and 3.0L TT versions. Models would be E350, E400, E43 and (I think) E450. MB recycled some model designations with updated engines so it’s possible to confuse them in the 2018-2019-2020 time frame.
AMGs I don’t see an issue with if you can tolerate the harsher ride and potentially more expensive AMG-unique replacement parts costs.
Avoid the 2.0L M274/M264/M254 four banger. The 3.0L M256 in-line 6 cylinder seems OK as an engine, but unfortunately it uses the problematic 48V system, and it is a new powertrain. New + 48V = avoid and do not buy imo.
talking about engines, do you have any reliable data points on the S560 (facelift W222) V8 engine?
talking about engines, do you have any reliable data points on the S560 (facelift W222) V8 engine?
The M177 4.0TT V8 is used in the W222 S560.
The M177 had unsolved misfires in early production years in C63 and E63 models.
Lately (now) there are several reports of failed rear main crankshaft oil seals below 100k miles, resulting from plugged oil-vapor separators causing crankcase overpressure. The group wisdom suggests changing the separators preemptively before they plug could avoid the RMS failure. But the mileage when separators fail is unknown, so the preemptive replacement approach is not precise.
Besides the misfires and RMS failure, there don't seem to be widespread serious problems with this engine. On the other hand, M278/M157 V8 big problems seem to surface near 100k miles, and M274 four-banger piston cracking appears below 100k miles but this could be quite some years after production if the vehicle has not been driven much.
I would say the M177 does not have a clean bill of health yet. Maybe in a couple of years if nothing new surfaces and if the RMS situation is resolved with a field fix whether MB- or consumer- (enthusiast) derived.
Regarding a V6 M276 powertrain, this is the most reliable that MB has built in the past 10-15 years. This includes 3.5L NA and 3.0L TT versions. Models would be E350, E400, E43 and (I think) E450. MB recycled some model designations with updated engines so it’s possible to confuse them in the 2018-2019-2020 time frame.
AMGs I don’t see an issue with if you can tolerate the harsher ride and potentially more expensive AMG-unique replacement parts costs.
Avoid the 2.0L M274/M264/M254 four banger. The 3.0L M256 in-line 6 cylinder seems OK as an engine, but unfortunately it uses the problematic 48V system, and it is a new powertrain. New + 48V = avoid and do not buy imo.
Is the M276 used in the 2018-2020 S450 too (US spec)?
I thought the M256 Inline 6 plus 48V has been in use in Europe since 2018?
The M177 had unsolved misfires in early production years in C63 and E63 models.
Lately (now) there are several reports of failed rear main crankshaft oil seals below 100k miles, resulting from plugged oil-vapor separators causing crankcase overpressure. The group wisdom suggests changing the separators preemptively before they plug could avoid the RMS failure. But the mileage when separators fail is unknown, so the preemptive replacement approach is not precise.
Besides the misfires and RMS failure, there don't seem to be widespread serious problems with this engine. On the other hand, M278/M157 V8 big problems seem to surface near 100k miles, and M274 four-banger piston cracking appears below 100k miles but this could be quite some years after production if the vehicle has not been driven much.
I would say the M177 does not have a clean bill of health yet. Maybe in a couple of years if nothing new surfaces and if the RMS situation is resolved with a field fix whether MB- or consumer- (enthusiast) derived.
Thanks, this is extremely useful. What’s the average/estimated cost for “changing the separators preemptively before they plug could avoid the RMS failure”? Is this something that can be done by indy shop or better by a dealer during 10K miles service or spark plugs replacement?
Update:
Thanks everyone for the very useful and informative feedback/advise. I’ve finally settled on a decision and brought the replacement to our old accord home; which is another accord as a 3rd/4th multipurpose house car.
2021 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring - Platinum White Pearl, very low miles. To seal the deal, asked the dealer to switch wheels on this hybrid touring from another Sport edition accord and he agreed.
46-50 MPG average on a short highway and few city-miles trip on the way back home felt unreal. Thx again everyone.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by S_W222
Update:
Thanks everyone for the very useful and informative feedback/advise. I’ve finally settled on a decision and brought the replacement to our old accord home; which is another accord as a 3rd/4th multipurpose house car.
2021 Honda Accord Hybrid Touring - Platinum White Pearl, very low miles. To seal the deal, asked the dealer to switch wheels on this hybrid touring from another Sport edition accord and he agreed.
46-50 MPG average on a short highway and few city-miles trip on the way back home felt unreal. Thx again everyone.
Glad you figured it out, should work fine for your needs, thanks for the update.
Thanks, this is extremely useful. What’s the average/estimated cost for “changing the separators preemptively before they plug could avoid the RMS failure”? Is this something that can be done by indy shop or better by a dealer during 10K miles service or spark plugs replacement?
Sorry for the late reply, haven't been to this thread in a while. I think the cost is in the range of $2k to replace the separators. A few people have posted the cost in either the E63 or C63 sections.
Any (good) indy or MB dealer can do it. Sure, they can do it at a normal service, but you need to let them know ahead of time so they can order the parts (which you would pay for in advance). Some site members have posted that dealers state that separators are backordered, while others site members report that their dealers have the separators in stock.
So it can be safely assumed that dealers are 100% clueless 100% of the time, as usual.
PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Originally Posted by chassis
Sorry for the late reply, haven't been to this thread in a while. I think the cost is in the range of $2k to replace the separators. A few people have posted the cost in either the E63 or C63 sections.
Any (good) indy or MB dealer can do it. Sure, they can do it at a normal service, but you need to let them know ahead of time so they can order the parts (which you would pay for in advance). Some site members have posted that dealers state that separators are backordered, while others site members report that their dealers have the separators in stock.
So it can be safely assumed that dealers are 100% clueless 100% of the time, as usual.
Curious what is good/bad about the new compared to the old?
That said the new one is so overpriced for what you get (imo)
Styling for one, the old Accord is really attractive, the new one is very awkward looking in the front. The old Accord has the 2.0T, the new one doesn't. His is a hybrid so thats not a concern but styling alone I would choose the previous one.
My assistant has one of those, the hybrid like his and its surprisingly nice.
06-11-2023, 06:08 PM
