Nice Ride

They will also give you a new Oil Filter, Wiper Blades etc....

tbirdvet

I'm a retired automotive engineer. We test vehicles anywhere from 100k-250K miles over a prescribed cycle of slow and high speed driving and follow the 10K interval using the recommended oil. Most engine issues are not from the oil change but from design issues like scoring cylinders. Changing oil any sooner than recommended will not provide any additional protection. That being said if you drive short miles in cold climates which may cause condensation in the engine oil or some other non typical cycle then a shorter change interval may be required.

Bigg Willi

While I can apricate your input as an authority based on your "engineering" background, I totally disagree that 10kmi oil change intervals are in the best interests of the consumer in anything other than a connivence situation. ANY mechanic that has actually worked high mile oil change interval engines will tell you that's what will send your engine to an early failure. "Prescribed cycle test" are not REAL world, and can actually be tuned to produce any result the tester wants? Oil break down is not linear and long oil change intervals are just the smoke and mirrors manufacturers use to let consumers think they are getting a sweet deal when "FREE" oil changes are included during the cars warranty period.

tbirdvet

Oil before Synthetic formulations would deteriorate with mileage but so much with these new formulas. We did not test to get any results we wanted. The test is run at low/high speeds and idle conditions over seasonal temperatures. Then we would tear down the engines to see what abnormal wear/function has taken place. Of course everyone can decide when to change their oil that makes them comfortable.

Lou B

This is two things - one of oh, so many responses put up here without any backing facts or study results. Huge number of folks quote statements such as the above, when there is no quoted research or data on which the statement rests.
It also purports to be from some kind of a self-anointed expert who provides no background as to his qualifications to make such statements.

I suppose it's impossible to keep such kinds of statements being made here, unfortunately. In my opinion, it's a weakness of this site.

MBNUT1

My local dealer advocated early oil changes. I disagreed. I sent my oil out to be tested at 8500 miles. It came back that it was fine for continued use.

SW20S

I think we need to come to an agreement about what "high OCIs" are. 10k miles is not a high OCI IMO, 20k, 25k like BMW is advocating for or what some oil manufacturers advocate for is a different story.

I have NEVER seen a oil analysis (UOA) on a quality modern synthetic oil come back at 10k miles showing that the oil is broken down to any concerning degree. I haven't done any myself but LOTS of people have and they are posted all over the internet.

I know a lot of mechanics advocate for 5k oil change intervals (mine included), and I think a lot of that is just old school thinking and also honestly what is best for their bottom line. I have also never seen anybody posting about issues that can be attributed to engine oil happening when someone is doing a 10k OCI.

With that said, oil is cheap, and if it makes you feel better, change it earlier. Realistically though how old are we talking about keeping these cars to? If I kept it for 100k miles it would be the longest I have owned a car in the last 15 years, thats extremely unlikely. I am very comfortable with 10k OCIs.

Tom in Austin

How many of you guys search out and use the Mercedes-spec oil?

Bigg Willi

LOL, yep good old EXPERIENCE (which can be quantified here easily by looking at a commenters past and amount of post and comments.) use to count for something, but in a world as factual as the internet (LMASSOFF) facts only come from someone else's study, and those who STATE a background? Sites like this used to be a great place to come and get others opinion, experience, specific and general knowledge. Nope the biggest weakness of this site (yep my opinion) those who come into a chat, and in their comments add nothing of real value to the ORIGINAL subject of the chat. Just talking just to hear themselves talk..LOL
My Qualification USAF MASTER TECH...

Crito

Problem is I've met one too many people with more authority than brains who think I should believe anything they say. I'm the kind of guy who has to see it to believe it and it doesn't really matter who you are (or think you are):

Bigg Willi

I don't change my oil based on when testing says 'the oil will break down', I change it based on the amount of dirt, raw fuel and other contaminants born from IC and engine wear. See us "Old School" experienced mechanics know even the best oil can only carry so much in contaminants, what it will no longer carry gets deposited in your engine. No engine filters 100% of its oil, even if it did no filter can catch 100% of the contaminants produced by IC and engine wear. NOTHING evacuates those IC contaminants better than FREQUENT OIL CHANGES, and 10kmi for me as proud to be 'OLD SCHOOL GUY' is just too long an OCI. Funny how some will listen to the internet, but not even their own mechanic...SMH

SW20S

I do.

UOAs also show the buildup of those contaminants in the oil, and they show that there is no significant build up by 10,000 miles. Reading professional UOAs and following the maintenance schedule provided by the vehicle manufacturer is not "listening to the internet". Why should we listen to mechanics but not the engineers who designed the car and formulated the oil? Those engineers say the oil should be changed at 10,000 miles. Why are you as a mechanic smarter and more knowledgable than those engineers?

If as you say oil was so commonly full of contaminants by 10,000 miles that it damages the engine, UOAs would show that all over the place and they just don't...in fact they show nothing of the kind. If you are challenging what these engineers say, where is your proof?

Bigg Willi

Do ya 1 better, Eric is always interesting, love his teardowns.

SW20S

Where is the evidence that the oil in this engine was changed every 10,000 miles?

SW20S

Did you read the comments?



And again, where is the evidence that the oil in this engine was changed every 10,000 miles?

If you want to change your oil more frequently then thats fine, but telling people that if they DON'T do so they will have engine damage is a very bold statement when you have provided zero proof to back that up.

Bigg Willi

ITS CALLED EXPERIENCE!
You Sir are the DONKEY (knowledgeable = Spell correct works if you use it)...Moving on now.

SW20S

You don't think the engineers who design engines for Mercedes Benz or lubricants for Mobil have experience?

How many Mercedes engines have you torn down that were destroyed because the owner followed the MB recommended OCI? Just because you are a mechanic does not mean that you are smarter than the engineers who designed these engines or the engineers who designed the lubricants used in these engines. You can call me names all you want, that just makes the point that your argument is extremely weak and you have nothing to back it up. If that weren't the case you would just easily back up what you are saying instead of calling me names.

If you want to present UOAs that show a buildup of contaminants in oil after 8,000 miles that would indicate continued use of that oil for 2,000 more miles would damage the engine, then I would be fascinated to see those. if you can point us to specific examples of engines that were damaged or destroyed because of following Mercedes recommended OCIs and that can be verified, I also would be fascinated to see that...issue is you can't because none of that evidence exists. Why does it not exist? Because its not actually an issue.

Bigg Willi

Would those be the same "ENGINEERS" that,
Decided to start making intercoolers out of plastic?
Figured installing the timing chains and their associated sensors on the back if the engine was best?
That using a internally mounted rubber belt rather than gears to drive the oil pump was better?
Using a female rather than male torx for a head bolt is the right thing to do?
etc.
etc.
etc...
See I actually turn wrenches and have learned through EXPERIENCE whats works or not, while you seem to defer total proof based on what an engineer writes about, do you bro... But remember ************ like surfing the internet for "proof" can be very gratifying when you find that web page, but "Ain't nothing like the real thing" turning wrenches can bring...You should try it.

ygmn

Jeeze feel sorry for the Thread Starter because this train is derailed.

SW20S

Should I list a bunch of stupid things that mechanics do too?

Then because you have so much experience answer my question about how many engines you have repaired or torn down that were destroyed by 10k OCIs. You ignore that question because the answer is zero.

No interest in working on cars, thanks. I don't have the time or the interest. I certainly could if I wanted to.

If 10,000 mile oil changes were that detrimental to an engine, there would be evidence of that all over the place. We'd have tons of failed engines and UOAs would show the contamination you speak of too. Should be easy for you to give us some proof of your claims. In one breath you tell me that anything I find on the internet is worthless because of your experience, yet your post is something on the internet...so logically it is also worthless.

SW20S

Its on topic at least lol.

The bottom line is, you have people who subscribe to schools of thought that are 30, 40, 50+ years old. These people are old, crotchety and set in their ways and refuse to entertain the idea that 30, 40, 50 years of improvement in engine design and construction and fluid development have improved the lifespan of oils. I have a hard time accepting that Mercedes engineers would suggest 10K OCIs if those OCIs destroyed engines. That just doesn't make any sense to me. When I drove Lexuses my old 98 LS400 called for 7,500 mile OCIs and that was on conventional oil. I drove that Lexus until it had 170,000 miles on it oil always changed at 7,500 miles with conventional oil and it was perfectly fine. Now Lexus recommends 10k OCIs with full synthetic. I again have a hard time believing that Toyota, a brand with such a commitment to their reputation for reliability and longevity would recommend an OCI that will destroy engines. It again doesn't make any sense.

Then you have fluid developers like Mobil, etc. These manufacturers ALL also say that their fluids are good for at least 10,000 miles...why would they lie? Lengthening OCIs reduces their revenue.

On top of that there are thousands of UOAs that are posted all over the internet, and anybody can send an oil sample off for a UOA for $20 and see exactly what contaminants are in their oil. I have never seen one on a street car that is driven normally that has ever come back at 10k miles that would say "man that oil should have been changed a while back". Never. On top of THAT where are the engines that have been destroyed by following the manufacturer and oil developer's recommended OCIs? I can't remember ever having seen any.

So, you have vehicle manufacturers that say 10k OCIs are fine. Fluid developer and manufacturers who say 10k OCIs are fine. No real world evidence that 10k OCIs have damaged any engines. Yet, we are supposed to double the cost and inconvenience of oil changes because some mechanic says its better who when pressed can present no evidence as to why that is his position other than "I say so"?



As was said by another member on the forum:



I'm HAPPY to be proven wrong...but I need to see it to believe it.

Mitch Alsup

Mercedes has to make an engine that lasts 120K miles with its recommended oil and OCI.

This means whether 10K OCI is OK or not depends on how long the owner wants the car to last.
a) You have owners who want a new car every 3 years,
b) Mercedes needs the engine to last 120K miles to minimize warrantee work,
c) You have owners who want a car to last as long as practicable, say 400K miles.

10K OCI for (a) is fine
10K OCI for (b) is on the edge
10K OCI for (c) is not a feasible plan

SW20S

But where is the evidence of that? How do we know that the engine won’t last more than 120,000 miles on the recommended OCIs?

If that were true we would see evidence of that.

dmatre

Our W212 (E350) has lasted 138k miles so far, only visiting the dealer when advised by the computer (typically 10-12k intervals).

It’s still running past 120k, doesn’t burn a drop of oil between services, and runs like new.

Make of it what you like, but this is actual experience.

As a boss of mine used to maintain: "Without factual evidence and data, you're just another moron with an opinion"

Mitch Alsup

"I do cars" a youtube sight disassembles engines, some of them are Merc's with less than 70K miles on them with nasty cylinder scoring.
A few of these he has accurate mileage data. I don't think he has any OCI data on them.


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