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"I do cars" a youtube sight disassembles engines, some of them are Merc's with less than 70K miles on them with nasty cylinder scoring.
A few of these he has accurate mileage data. I don't think he has any OCI data on them.
Without OCI info or other history that tells us nothing. Those engines might have only seen 1 or 2 or even no oil changes, they may have been overheated or experienced other issues that cause lubrication problems. I know a guy who leases cars who prides himself on NEVER changing the oil.
Again, you would see contamination in UOAs at or before 10,000 miles between changes that would show what causes that cylinder scoring, and out of all of them that have been presented (check out BITOG forums) there are no such results.
i also see a TON of UOA for my customer cars since I keep kits at the shop for morbid curiosity if the guest wants it. 10k is fine but the oil starts cooking off, it still lubricates but something has to give first and usually it's the oils volatility resistance even though the TBN and visosity are ok. Now the viscosity over time thickens and whatnot but within 10k thats usually not an issue and if you're not driving city miles you don't have a ton of cook-off anyway.
All of my customers are told to follow the manual and get oil changes between 7500-12k. I have about 50 customers that keep me running, I don't exactly take new business anymore, I'm a small 3-bay shop with 1 partner, no employees. We change a lot of oil, I also sell a lot of oil through the Amsoil program to personal customers who sign up with my link so I have a lot of data. If you want to change your oil because its starting to look gross or it's starting to cook off and its just economical to save the 1-2qts youd' normally just sent into the atmosphere anyway thats actually great thinking. However if you don't experience anything of the sort and lose only a half quart between changes, 10k all day. I've been looking at this for 10 years. I have like 20+ UOA's that say all the various 229.5/229.51 oils work and have reserve protection at 10k in Audi/BMW/Porsche/MB.
A UOA is kinda wasted since it only tells you if you have problems with your engine. It is not the end-all be-all way of determining which oil is better, because on the first change, for example Amsoil shakes out a lot of oil debris from all the detergeants on the Signature series stuff so it looks really bad on the UOA, on the 2nd one its nice. This doesn't apply to Euro spec since we have to use an OE equivalent oil and Amsoil doesn't really mess around with the Euro specs. So UOA's only establish a pattern after a few of them and by then you're spending $180 after 3 of them just to tell you you can keep changing the oil at 10k anyway.
I've been looking at this for 10 years. I have like 20+ UOA's that say all the various 229.5/229.51 oils work and have reserve protection at 10k in Audi/BMW/Porsche/MB.
Exactly what I have seen looking at UOAs that have been shared by others.
Can't say what interval will get your engine to 1m miles, but over on the BMW forums, one of the members (Efthreeoh) has 43X,XXX miles on his N52 engine following the recommended 10k-12k intervals.
His car is still in service, so it may be that factory recommendations CAN get you to 1m miles.
I would never expect an engine to last 1M miles...nor would I ever own a vehicle that got to 1M miles.
I will also say this about mechanic recommendations...bear in mind that telling you to change your oil every 5k miles vs 10k doubles the number of times he gets your car in his shop. You can't assign all kinds of nefarious intent to the engineers who set the 10K OCI and ignore the very reasonable potential of nefarious intent by the mechanic for saying it needs to be serviced at his profit twice as often...
I would never expect an engine to last 1M miles...nor would I ever own a vehicle that got to 1M miles.
I will also say this about mechanic recommendations...bear in mind that telling you to change your oil every 5k miles vs 10k doubles the number of times he gets your car in his shop. You can't assign all kinds of nefarious intent to the engineers who set the 10K OCI and ignore the very reasonable potential of nefarious intent by the mechanic for saying it needs to be serviced at his profit twice as often...
If you get the time I would recommend watching this video:
The mechanic actually did the math on the extra oil changes vs the new engine block price and it was not even close. Prevention is better than the 10k gimmick that even Toyota is pushing now.
If you get the time I would recommend watching this video: https://youtu.be/TJhFAwFv-O0?si=L6Ff8J3XqSwZ00rL
The mechanic actually did the math on the extra oil changes vs the new engine block price and it was not even close. Prevention is better than the 10k gimmick that even Toyota is pushing now.
I've watched it. That math assumes the need to purchase a new engine block, which I am very confident would never be necessary in the time I own a vehicle. Its not about money to me, its about hassle. I just don't want to have the car serviced twice as much as is necessary, I don't have the time or energy for that. Then there's the waste etc. My Lexus mechanic told me the same thing, and when I asked him how many times he had ever seen a Toyota engine that he knows the owner changed the oil every 10k miles destroyed by those OCIs, and he had to admit to me "never". Whats happening with these tear down videos is theres some other issue like overheating or coolant leaks etc, or the owners are just really not even changing the oil every 10k miles.
I do not believe Toyota engineers and oil formulators are suggesting 10k OCIs as a "gimmick". It just doesn't make any sense. Show me some UOAs that back up that the oil before 10k is tired and full of contaminants and show me some vehicles that require new engine blocks when they have religiously changed their oil every 10k like I do and I will reevaluate that position. Hard to do that though because none of that evidence exists.
Why would Toyota, Mercedes, etc knowingly put an OCI in their maintenance schedule when they know it causes engine damage? Why would every respected oil formulator guarantee their oil well past even that OCI when they know it won't protect an engine? Thats bad business and they aren't doing that.
Planned obsolescence is of course not bad business, it’s just business at this point. These cars are being designed not to last anymore and the companies know the end is near for combustion engines, but they need to be able to sell them as being less onerous with these extended service intervals which in theory sound great but in practice are not a great practice at all (there were no coolant leaks or overheating on that doctor owned Camry with a full service history if you watch the video all the way through). They are banking on the fact that people are lazy and will want the next shiny new object in 2-3 years without regard to the immense waste producing an entirely new vehicle produces, which pales in comparison to the waste of a simple oil change. As noted in the later part of the video, oil changes don’t change all the oil in the motor, there is some left inside it which can do damage, hence why a shorter interval is recommended to dilute it earlier. This will be a thing of the past soon though as they discontinue this propulsion technology entirely and convince you to spend even more of your money on battery driven cars once your combustion car has engine damage that could have been prevented…to each their own though, you have to be comfortable with the risks of believing manufacturer’s marketing, which is kind of like believing big agriculture is producing highly processed food that is good for your body with their marketing claims. There is the marketing and there is the reality…this is sales 101.
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Planned obsolescence is of course not bad business, it’s just business at this point. These cars are being designed not to last anymore and the companies know the end is near for combustion engines, but they need to be able to sell them as being less onerous with these extended service intervals which in theory sound great but in practice are not a great practice at all (there were no coolant leaks or overheating on that doctor owned Camry with a full service history if you watch the video all the way through). They are banking on the fact that people are lazy and will want the next shiny new object in 2-3 years without regard to the immense waste producing an entirely new vehicle produces, which pales in comparison to the waste of a simple oil change. As noted in the later part of the video, oil changes don’t change all the oil in the motor, there is some left inside it which can do damage, hence why a shorter interval is recommended to dilute it earlier. This will be a thing of the past soon though as they discontinue this propulsion technology entirely and convince you to spend even more of your money on battery driven cars once your combustion car has engine damage that could have been prevented…to each their own though, you have to be comfortable with the risks of believing manufacturer’s marketing, which is kind of like believing big agriculture is producing highly processed food that is good for your body with their marketing claims. There is the marketing and there is the reality…this is sales 101.
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You don't think throwing away 10 quarts of oil twice as often as is necessary is wasteful? MB and others have been doing 10k OCIs since long before EVs were ever in the immediate picture.
Again...show me the evidence? All I am hearing is opinion and conjecture. On that Toyota...there are MILLIONS of those 4 cyl engines on the road and thats not a particularly good engine...where are all the failed engines? You also don't know if that Toyota had oil changes every 5k miles that it still wouldn't start using oil at 130k miles. Oil use at high mileage is not an uncommon issue with modern Toyota engines. In any event, the car had 130,000 miles on it which is well outside of any life it would have with me. Nothing lasts forever, and sometimes with an old high mileage car you gotta add some oil.
I again am very confident that changing the oil according to the manufacturers recommendation will be fine, until I am shown some evidence that it isn't...which I still havent been shown. Conspiracy theories about OCIs being set high to drive sales of EVs are not evidence.
You don't think throwing away 10 quarts of oil twice as often as is necessary is wasteful? MB and others have been doing 10k OCIs since long before EVs were ever in the immediate picture.
Again...show me the evidence? All I am hearing is opinion and conjecture. On that Toyota...there are MILLIONS of those 4 cyl engines on the road and thats not a particularly good engine...where are all the failed engines? You also don't know if that Toyota had oil changes every 5k miles that it still wouldn't start using oil at 130k miles. Oil use at high mileage is not an uncommon issue with modern Toyota engines. In any event, the car had 130,000 miles on it which is well outside of any life it would have with me. Nothing lasts forever, and sometimes with an old high mileage car you gotta add some oil.
I again am very confident that changing the oil according to the manufacturers recommendation will be fine, until I am shown some evidence that it isn't...which I still havent been shown. Conspiracy theories about OCIs being set high to drive sales of EVs are not evidence.
Which is what Mr Alsup said. The argument for longer oil changes is for owners that want to get 200K plus miles out of their cars. So the question is have people gotten 200K + miles out of their engines using the 10k OCI?
Which is what Mr Alsup said. The argument for longer oil changes is for owners that want to get 200K plus miles out of their cars. So the question is have people gotten 200K + miles out of their engines using the 10k OCI?
Absolutely they have....most engines today will last more than 200k miles with regular maintenance.
Tons of people on the Lexus forums as an example with 200k+ miles who follow the factory maintenance schedule, etc. Multiple people here too with cars over 150k following the schedule...some have posted in this thread. If nobody has, then all the older model forums on every site would be full of engine failures.
You bought the car used though right? What about before that? How have you examined your cylinder walls?
I did indeed buy it used. From 1500 miles to the 28k I bought it with, it had oil changes every 5-7k miles verified by receipts. To answer your last question, a borescope.
I did indeed buy it used. From 1500 miles to the 28k I bought it with, it had oil changes every 5-7k miles verified by receipts. To answer your last question, a borescope.
I would bet money if you used a borescope on another S550 that had verified oil changes every 10k you would find the cylinder walls equally smooth.
E Coupe C207, ML W166, ML W164, Sprinter 1500/144, W111 SB220 Fintail(s), A5 chassis Beetle 5+5
"Extreme Service" conditions, learn what that is and why 6 month change intervals are perfect (over 8000 miles a year) 10k or a full year are under optimal conditions.
Remember Pennzoil Euro L is an inexpensive way to get 229.51 reduced ash.
For what it’s worth, in my personal experience, I did maintenance by the book (10K OCI) on my last two cars that were my daily driver/commuter.
My first was the w204 2011 C300 that had about 39K miles when I bought it, still under factory warranty. It had a slight hesitation at idle—dealer replaced the head of passenger side under warranty to fix the issue. Since then, I drove it trouble free until 217k miles, I tracked every fuel up and service I did. Not a single oil related issue, bone dry engine bay with no leaks. Car was
totaled in 2018.
I then purchased a w212 2014 E350, high mileage 95k or so, out of warranty but had good service history and engine bay was immaculate. I personally serviced and drove that car to about 201k before it was also totaled. The car never had any oil related issues, no leaks or burning of oil.
I then bought a w222 in 2023. We will see how this one does, but this engine has turbos which will be different from the two NA engines I has no issues with. I’ve changed the oil twice already, practicing 5-6k change intervals. My concern is the turbos and how they will probably affect the oil differently than the two previous cars I had.
11-30-2023, 05:59 PM
