carlosinseattle

https://www.nada.org/nada/nada-headl...tegy-bloomberg

I know this doesn't affect anyone here who already has an S-Class, but interesting article on a number of fronts. One thing I didn't realize is that MB had made a strategic decision to focus on the higher end of their lineup. I like that choice.

MBNUT1

Wonder why sales outside of China are down.

Mitch Alsup

Perhaps the W223 is underwhelming.

S_W222

Am not surprised. Majority of Mbenz buyers are well informed, and most of us know that a facelift is due very soon. That is NOT the only reason for sure, but I bet it’s part of it. The current W223 is in desperate need for a facelift in my view (the technology is good but excellent as it used to be). Myself, as a potential W223 buyer, didn’t want to get the W223 right now first due to the issues am reading online and 2nd due to the fact a facelift is due soon. The article says that the decline had occurred (this year). The same is true for other manufacturers though; BMW isn’t doing as good as they were hopping with their new high-end car sales at all. Poor design decisions all around combined with complains by early adopters of high-end Mbenz and BMWs could be a factor. Let’s not forget the high interest rates…. Most people aren’t buying cars nowadays and prefer to keep their cars, unless they buy cash. I myself have never seen the value in financing the car at current rates nor that I will ever lease a car, paying cash and selling the car for the maximum amount possible privately is the smartest decision nowadays. With high interest rates and stupid lease offerings for some vehicles, most people aren’t moving forward with a new car purchase just yet as compared to 3 years ago. I see the sales decline being a result of a number of factor rather than just one that were all leading towards the negative side.

Streamliner

The W223 IS, indeed, underwhelming, but it's more than that. The car, at least for the 18 months I had my S580, is IRRITATING! From the pop-out door handles to the haptic controls, to the massive touch screen that constantly loses all your settings, to the black plastic all over the steering wheel, etc. The ride quality with or without run flats, with AirMatic or EABC is not as good as a W222 with AirMatic in my opinion. The W223 is a quieter car and the 4D audio is a bit nicer than the 3D in the W222, but THAT'S IT! The W222 is a much more elegant car in my opinion and in that respect, the interior is just SO much nicer than the interior in the newer car. And, one thing that came as a pleasant surprise when I moved from the W223 back to a W222 is that the ingress/egress is reasonably easier in the older car, at least for me with my bad back.

carlosinseattle

Interesting note about ingress/egress...I thought I was the only one who noticed or struggled with this. I'm 6'4" and have 38 inch sleeves, VERY long arms, and I felt like I had to reach further to close the door on the W223 loaner car I had for 2 months. I literally had to put a foot on the ground in order to grab the door handle to pull it closed. And I pretty much agree with all your other observations, except the sound system and EABC because I didn't have either option. One thing I really disliked was the glare on the front windshield that came from the air vent reflections One of the weirdest problems for me on the W223, I'm surprised that problem wasn't rectefied prior to production. On the pop out handles...that's a feature I NEVER want. We had heavy rains, followed up with icy cold weather last January, so there was a 1/8" sheet of ice covering the car the next morning. The right rear door handle struggled to break through the sheet of ice, and broke because of it. Luckily it was a loaner, so I didn't care. But I would have been pissed if it had been my car. I understand the benefits of pop out handles, but I 100% do not want them.

Tom in Austin

Interesting, I just went by the dealer yesterday and looked at a W223. I asked the salesman how you open the door and he said "your fob makes the handles extend automatically when you approach the car"

So I asked, what if it's my wife trying to get something out of the car, how would she open it? He said, her fob works the same way. So I said ok, let's say it's my neighbor and he says, well you should give him your fob. So I replied, why would I do that, the car's unlocked. He seemed genuinely confused. The point ... obviously! ... is that the door handle on an unlocked car should be able to be opened by anyone!

What an idiotic design!

MTrauman

IMHO, MB changed its strategy to focused on higher margin products but seem to not be able to produce the cars people want that are higher margin cars. I have been waiting for ever to see and experience the S63 AMG E Performance--but nothing (love my Euro Delivery 2019 S63 AMG by the way--absolutely love the car). Their execution is horrible! I am also waiting for a car that should replace the AMG GTR. Instead I have purchased two new 2023 Chevy Corvettes--one Z06 and one Z07. Even though GM cannot produce enough Corvettes, atleast they have released and produced cars people can buy AND Want to buy. I am a MB faithful but losing my faith in MB. And MB is focused too much on ugly EVs (IMHO).

C280 Sport

W223 is a major letdown compared to the W222. Also, add in that we are heading towards poor economic times.

SW20S

Honestly? The car is just too expensive, you have people returning to re-lease and being met with lease payments that are $1,000+ per month more and they aren't biting. This is an issue with all of MB's expensive cars, talk to dealers about it.

As much as I agree some things about the 223 are a disappointment, if I could lease one for a couple hundred bucks more than I am paying for my 222 I would do it. $1,000 a month more? Thats a hard sell...especially when I don't love the product over what I have. Wanna hear something crazy? I could keep my S560 AND lease a new Tesla Model S and the payment would be the same as just leasing a new S580, at least very close.

S_W222

That makes sense. When I did my math, I needed the cash I got from my W222 sale plus the cash I paid for my Model S, to get a S560 with the spec’s I’d only accept. That was a no go. I could have two cars I love instead of the W223 or one and a plenty of cash for other stuff. That’s one reason I seriously consider pre-owned W223 PHEV, loaded ones to the max were close to 95-100K. That’s close to the S Plaid and even better but I just couldn’t yet find the one with all spec’s and colors needed (only one that matched my dream spec was 120K pre-owned, that’s too much). At this point the W223 worth it pre-owned, but new it’s hard if u already can get other options/toys that are as enticing for much less. I’d gladly buy a brand new one if the facelift for W223 would address some of the issues I dislike.

vinflouen

Things are getting tight.
many people have lost alot of wealth, alot of sales declines.
w223 does not do it for me. Sticking with my W222 until the wheels fall off.
new eq’s are underwhelming and im not interested in an ev.
They are not moving many cars because not many like what they are selling and lots of people holding on to cash.

Streamliner

I would fall into that category, but mostly because, for the first time since I got my first MB, a 1972 350SL, there is NOT ONE new MB I am interested in. IF the W223 were something reasonably better than the W222, I would probably go for another one, but it ISN'T! In my reasonably educated opinion on the subject, the W222 is a BETTER car in most every way.

vinflouen

W222 is the last of the great S classes before MB went woke and tried to be all ev.
my first benz i bought was a 2005 s430, still have it and still love it.

LAWYER2

High Prices + High Interest Rates ='s decreased sales. This is not rocket science, but I think manufacturers across the board have been testing consumer boundaries and are probably now discovering the limits.

MBNUT1

Who has lost a lot of wealth? In what investments?

SW20S

Its not about that. I make $200,000 a year more now than I did when I got my S560. Its about value, I just can't bring myself to pay $1,000 a month more for the same car...when there are things I really dislike about the car. If I LOVED the car, then I would pay the money but I would have to love that car and just not want the one I've got to make that jump.

People with higher incomes/net worth are not as impacted by all of this as middle class folks. Look at the sales numbers industrywide, this is an issue for Mercedes specifically.

carlosinseattle

I agree that MB has focused on EV's at the expense of their ICE offerings. But auto manufacturers collective focus on EV's hasn't been based on some weird political agenda. You can argue that governments making rules incentivising EV's is political, and you won't hear an argument from me, but I don't think it was the manufacturers desire to move in this direction as quickly as they have. In the last few years manufacturers have decided to move towards EV's, but it's about chasing the dollar and catching up with Tesla. There are practical reasons to move towards EVs over ICE, not all the benefits have been realized, but I think within a decade we'll be happier for it. I just bought an S63 and I'm enjoying averaging around 16mpg, due to my driving style, so I'm NOT saying this from some soap box position. I love the feel and sound of my engine.

I had a 2001 S600 V12, bought it off lease with less than 30K in 2005. I loved the look and how it drove, but hated all the money I spent on maintenance and repairs, which is why it was 13 years in between MB ownership. I'm hoping for more reliability this time as I intend to keep this car for another 5 years. But my next DD will be an EV, MB or other manufacturer.

chassis

MB is in a tailspin for obvious reasons, many of them widely expounded upon on this site. In addition to the China non-result, MB lost out to BMW in the US market in Q3 and YTD.

SW20S

I'm tellin ya, its money. Redcuce prices and consumers by and large would still rather have an MB than a BMW.

vinflouen

i see it from my clients.
yes, my income shot up quite a bit over the course of the last few years and events, but over all its a decline.
i domt know what specific investments etc, i am speaking to what i see in my clients figures.
sales are down in alot of industries and sales are up in supported industries.

carlosinseattle

Consumer sentiment is a huge determining factor in economic health. What people collectively think will happen, tends to eventually happen - at least to some degree, even if it isn't what they want. I've noticed/encountered a lot of uncertainty from my clients too; I work in advertising and consulting. It's not only harder to get people to initiate new projects, it's also harder to even get in front of people to have those conversations. It's unfortunate because this isn't the time for soemone to bury their head in the sand, more information equips businesses, and individual consumers, to navigate uncertainty better.

One thing is for sure; if I had bought a Tesla prior to the 20%+ price drops I would be really upset! People are able to buy some new Tesla models for less than 3 year old cars, definitely true after factoring in the EV tax credit some cars now qualify for.

Faast

May be it's the 2 Ipads that are tacked on to the dash that's pissing people off, I know I am...

emilner

I have a pristine 2019 S560 with 21k miles. If Mercedes offered me a brand new similar or better equipped S580 for free as an even trade for my 560- I would say no thanks. I LOATH that car. It is the most boring designed flagship in history. It is the first top line MB I DON'T want to own. I would literally be sad knowing I owned it...

S_W222

I felt the same about the W221 when the W222 was released, and am serious about it. People said that the W222 looked more feminine, rounded, or not as sharp as the W221. The elegance and perfection of the W222 has showed up with time. I feel the same now about the W223 at least design wise, but the issue is that even though 3 years have passed since it was introduced, it has not yet grown that much on me.. but at least it did to some degree. I wouldn’t say that I would never consider a W223, because I would and I already did….. it’s still a better car value wise than W222 in my view… I would agree that I am also not as excited about it as I used to be for the W222, but I still think the W223 ride dynamics are better than the W222 (I sill prefer the classy look of the W222 cabin though). Despite all that I still have the W223 on my list for cars I’d own but still not sure about it. Honestly there isn’t any high-end luxury car that attracts my attention at all now. A pre-owned Bently could be a better proposition for the 90-150K range. Unfortunately both the S-class and 7-series are at least 5 years (or more) from the potential release of a newer generation and complete re-design. Those have always bee nmy favorite vehicles for a large sedan, and I dislike the current design of them to some degree, but still not to a level that I would not consider them. W223 doesn’t deserve all that criticism; it’s still a great car despite not being perfect.