Mitch Alsup

In 50 years, one will still be able to fix a 1965 Mustang or a Model T.
Can anyone say the same about any W222 ??

Donnymac

If you don’t have to go new and can do you homework, you can find both a solid 222 and a 911. They are both out there.

chassis

Engine operating temperature has nothing to do with heavy maintenance. I don't think you speak from experience. Please list the heavy maintenance items. You have not done this yet.

SW20S

Sure, and since thats what I do thats going to remain my perspective lol. If I was going to own a car for the long term it wouldn't be any Mercedes or German car, turbo or not. I would have kept my LS460L.

An S Class is not a "worry about repairs" kind of car. If you're worried about repairs you should get something else.

Lou B

How many readers/posters here expect to be thinking about cars in 2074?

BobinIL

I just turned 80 so I'm pretty sure I won't be thinking about them.

SW20S

I too find the whole "its going to cost too much to repair 10 years from now" worry silly with this sort of car. Its a $125,000 car, if you're buying a $125,000 car are you really worried about being able to pay several thousand dollars here and there for a repair 5+ years down the road? If you don't think you can do that, should you really be spending $125,000 on a car? The cost of the repairs will never come close to the incredible cost of the depreciation.

If you're buying used you're saving a HUGE amount of money from new, but again if you are worried about being able to spend several thousand dollars here and there on repairs, a car like this is just not for you.

For me its not about the cost of repairing the car, its the hassle. So, I pay a set amount every month to lease and I dump them before they become a hassle. Very viable option, but much costlier than buying the car, keeping it and paying for its repairs.

Hardly anybody is going to keep this car for 50 years. Will they still be around in 50 years? I have no doubt. Old 60s Mercedes like the 600 etc are incredibly complex and expensive to maintain and repair and they are still around, just in the hands of those to whom they have special meaning.

Donnymac

Precisely!

W205C43PFL

Good maintenance comes a long way, occasionally some people go through "Italian tune-up" to clear carbon deposit. The fuel used and the additives it contains would also affect the carbon deposit for certain engines, direct injection engines are more complicated in that regards.

MBNUT1

High maintenance cost are a given for a high end Mercedes the question is is it a reliable, durable car or does it have design flaws that eliminate it from consideration out of warranty.

A $35k repair bill at less than 75k miles qualifies it in the latter category.

Image below is a repair order for a 2014 S550 with 74k miles.

SW20S

Pretty sure all of us here have advised against getting an early M278 S550, in the later years the cast iron liners solved that issue, and that is not an issue with the M176 refresh cars.

If you're going to buy one of these used and keep it, you have to determine what the best year to buy is.

MBNUT1

@chassis is challenging that the cast iron liners were actually implemented and I haven't seen any evidence to override his challenge. As far as the M176 $9K valve cover gasket repairs certainly diminish that engine's appeal.

SW20S

I haven’t seen any evidence to support his challenge. Somebody a while back posted boroscope images showing the cast iron liners and all the cars we have seen with the bore scoring are older models.

Im the only person who has ever posted the issue of the valve cover gasket leak, and the first one my dealer has ever seen.

Things go wrong with cars, and these are very expensive sophisticated cars. If you’re worried about stuff like that this car just isn’t for you, it’s that simple.

Even if I had to pay the $9,000, I would have had it done at my independent mechanic and I bet it would have been $5k. Sucks but it is what it is, the car is worth that repair

MBNUT1

I agree it's more a car for a govt subsidized renter.

SW20S

Dont be bitter lol. You can get one too you just won’t let yourself.

Baltistyle

I hope I didn’t derail this thread. I think part of the question for me would be comparable costs of repair. Valve cover gaskets always fail and always need replacing and that’s just terribly expensive for that particular job. I consider a valve cover gasket as general maintenance. I’ve never had a turbo fail before a valve cover gasket so the whole hot v argument is there for it’s attributes, but I’d expect since turbos effect everything directly next to them, when they’re in the middle of the engine, they’re probably affecting that valve cover gasket with their heat. Before commenting I had just finished up some engine work on a 55k engine and the cars were much better designed for repairs by mechanics and owners. I’m able to own a low mileage car, purchased in cash that I can work on for a reasonable price. Many people comparing income levels, and the affordability of these cars are missing the point of comparable costs of repairs for different vehicles. I make a fair amount of money (in the hundreds) and spend more on used cars than most spend on their new car payment. The car could be for me, new or old, but first thing I look for is reliability and ease of repair. In that we see this as a first valve cover gasket for this engine, I’d expect 100% of them to need the job at 100k miles. Similar to the oil separator issues taking out rear main seals on some other models vehicles, it’s not that we can’t afford the repairs, it’s that it’s not smart to pay for a part that will not fix the design flaw so the only way to smartly own the cars is as a first owner with a warranty. And then there’s no real life to the cars because people won’t fix them and that’s just not very cool to the car guy in me.

I think so many cars are amazing and beautiful, and I will never own them due to the typical stupid engineering done by bean counters.

SW20S

Modern valve cover gaskets are not a maintenance item. Just look around the forum here, this is not a common repair. I've owned cars over 200k miles and have never had to repair a valve cover gasket, this is the first time I have had to do so in my life on any car. The HotV performs better, thats why its designed that way, its designed for performance first ease of repair second.

That was also at the dealership which is incredibly expensive, I never would have taken it there if I were paying.

It all comes down to what do you want? If you want a high performance German sedan like this, this is the potential you have to be prepared for. If you want something that is never going to need an expensive repair then what you want is a Toyota. Even high end Lexus cars have expensive needs, trust me I had 4 LSs...you can spend $9k at the dealer fixing one of those too.

For me its not about the money, leasing a new S Class is a $24,000 a year proposition, buying a used one and repairing it is going to cost less, its the hassle. I don't want to deal with a car that has constant needs but something every once and a while is just the way it is.

MBNUT1

Well articulated.

MBNUT1

It's really a matter of expectations of the brand. This business of a Mercedes being fundamentally a high performance sedan first is a deviation from the brand that I grew up with. Sure starting with the 300SEL 6.3 they made those variants but the brand was grounded in superior durability as a result of exceptional engineering and extensive development testing.

SW20S

Mercedes has not been a brand that anybody would accuse as being industry leading in reliability in 40 years.

MBNUT1

Hmmm. 2020 issue of Consumer Reports recommended the W212 as a used car to purchase and a 2018 W222 as a used car to avoid.

SW20S

Then you should stick with the W212. Personally I would choose the W222 every time higher maintenance and repair costs and all, zero interest in any E Class certainly not anything that old.

carlosinseattle

You guys are NUTS! I havo no idea how to feel about any of this, because you're saying too many different things. We live in an era where if a shopping cart hits the front of your car it could cause an insurance total...Not because the car is crap but because of all the sophisticated and expensive parts that are in car bumpers now. My buddy got a $15K repair for just such a reason. His car wasn't totaled, but that's what it cost to fix. replace, and recalibrate all the safety systems.

Point is; ALL the cars are becoming so complicated that none are going to be easy or cheap to fix. You guys have heard the stories of $5k to $30K for a battery pack, precisely the reason why I will never own the W223 S63. You either pay upfront by buying new, or roll the dice and certainly pay less heen buying used, with the only question being how much "did" I save? And that can only be answered when you get rid of the car. Anytime you don't have a warranty, you're taking a risk. Some of us find it worth the risk, while others don't. But neither side is right, just a matter of wether or not you went itno that situation aware of the downsides.

Back to the complexity issue. All I an say is Well...what do you expect??? This is the way it is, maybe MB is slightly ahead of cheaper manufacturers in terms of adding complexity to the repair and maintenance process, but the others aren't far behind. I can tell you from owing a Hyundai Genesis and a Equus/G90 that these problems aren't exclusive to MB, or even German luxury cars any longer. The cost of car repairs and maintenance has risen across the board, and probably only getting worse. There was a golden era from the mid 90's through probably 10 years ago, when cars were super reliable and still easy to work on. That time has passed. I remember replacing the head gasket on a MK2 Supra. I bought the Chilton manual and followed the steps outlined in the book. I laid out all the parts on tables on the other side of the garage, and took pictures all the way through the disassembly process. Got it all put back together and replaced the fluids. I called my buddy over for a beer and asked his help to troubleshoot any problems, which I was sure there would be. I turned the key and the car started right up, and ran perfectly until I sold it. Those days are gone, and I'm fully aware of it.

A friend of mine has an opening line in his book on dating that says "When Actions Don't Match up with Expectatons You have Issues!"

While I don't expect the worse possible outcome from my ownership experience, I think I'm aware of the risks inherent with owning such a complex machine that has to perform in an environment of constantly changing variables.

S_W222

I’m not surprised if this was a very recent report (i.e.: 2024)... .at least regarding the financial sense of car purchases. Personally, I’d never plan on owning a 6-7 year old S-Class now for 3 years from now. By the time a car is 6-7 years old, its technology is outdated (at least to some people), and it faces its second largest steep depreciation curve in the 6th-7th year, after initial drop in the first two years.

From my experience, avoiding the 1st/2nd and 6th-7th years of a car’s life is a key due to the steep depreciation... of course rising maintenance costs is a given at that time too. I had a 2015 S-Class in 2018 or 2019 and sold it just on time after 2-3 years of happy ownership. Similarly, I owned a 2018 model but knew I had to sell in 2023 when it was 5 years old. The value drops significantly... if you follow prices, it dropped $20K when comparing last summer vs this summer prices... of course other factoes play in, but generally that's what happens if you look at the depreciation curve of any car (steep drop at 1st-2nd year, somewhat stable from 2nd to 5th year, and another steep drop after 5th year (probably because the market gets flooded with lease return of the newer generation too at that time).... My main concern is usually the maintenance which mostly becomes more expensive after 5 years and chances you will see high ticket items showing up becomes much much higher.. Regardless of what the report says, I would not say that 2018 S-Class is the worst car to buy now... it is still an impressive car, but last year was the time to sell not to buy .. at least if someone is motivated by the financials considering depreciation and maintenance. Consumer Reports don't consider how awesome the car is, but they mostly follow logic from a financial point of view...... Ironically, I recently made a fun yet financially stupid and questionable bid on a 1998 fully loaded S-Class with a V12 engine a few days ago on an auction website (thankfully I lost the bid). But..life is too short, and when it comes to financial decisions, they can be a 2nd priority sometimes...

carlosinseattle

I call it BS. When you look at the details; their recommendation was based on all types of problems consumers had with their vehicles. The devil is in the details. BY FAR...the biggest complaint was with complicated telematics. C'mon man!!! They did a refresh and updated the telematics. A bunch of old geesers bought new S-classes and the telematics was too complicated. Their report was NOT based solely on mechanical issues or recalls, they were factored in but the results counts every incident reported equally, wehter it was telematics, brakdowns,or recalls. It also factors in depreciation, insurance costs, etc. You have to PAY to PLAY. All reasons were counted equally. In the real world, there are REAL problems, then there are first world problems. Complaining about Airplay issues or because your phone's contacts list doesn't download from your phone properly truly is a First World Problem.

By the way, here's the updated list: https://www.consumerreports.org/cars...g-a4034931071/