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Ah yes, in your eyes it is possible to defeat the laws of physics with RFTs and an ANSI weighted A dosimeter noise measurements on the same road/speed/conditions clearly produces fabricated results. Oh and hey, all of the reviews indicating as such (Carwow, etc) are also hot baloney.
Gosh some of you live really insular lives but as the saying goes ignorance is bliss.
I am; however, really looking forward to comparison tests of the latest and greatest models (including the 2021 LS). I surmise though that some of you may just want to hear what you want to hear. That said, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Ghost, so, meh.
You're just trolling, you do it on ClubLexus too. We've enjoyed many threads and posts by you there about how inferior that car is too. You bought the A8, and thats great. I don't go posting on Bimmerpost and AudiWorld how much "better" the S560 I chose is all the time. So clearly the person you're constantly trying to convince is yourself.
I have watched EVERY comparison review of these cars no less than 15 times as a part of my buying decision, including the CarWow review you mentioned. This concept you spread that "all the reviews say this" is false. There are plenty of reviews that say the S Class is the best riding car they have ever tested, and direct reviews between the S Class and A8 where they say the A8's ride is inferior.
Everyone can forward to 12:18 for his discussion of ride. What he says, bookended by praise for the ride which you conveniently ignore is that "occasionally" expansion joints and sharp bumps can punch through, and the ride can feel slightly jittery over really rough surfaces. And...he's right. My question to you is, have you driven an S Class on non-runflat tires? The answer is no. I own the exact same spec S class he's driving on non-runflat tires and replacing the run flats with those non runflat tires removed the negative that he mentioned. Those sharp bumps are much better damped with regular tires and really rough surfaces the car just glides over now.
Here is a comparison review where they say the S Class rides better than the A8:
Fast forward to 4:45 for the S Class 6:42 for the A8
Quotes? "The standard air suspension on this car is obviously very comfortable, but it doesnt have the marshmellowiness of the S Class" "yes, its not as wafty as the S Class, you do feel more of the bump" "we reckon the S Class has won this test, S Class it is for ride comfort" "The S Class is still the ultimate luxury car"
Another comparison review that lauds the A8 as the most comfortable ride. Ride Discussion starts at 8:55. I would suggest you check out how high profile the non runflat tires are on their test car:
S Class ride dicussion is at 9:23. Quotes about the S CLass. "Around town you can feel the effect of imperfections reverberating through the interior" and again, he is right...but that comes down to tires and what you're seeing there is the difference between thick higher profile non runflat tires vs lower profile runflats, and the issue he mentioned was solved on my car by going to non run flat tires.
Of all the YouTube reviews the vast majority put the S Class on top.
Truly extraordinary. Even compared to its direct competitors, it stands out with remarkable absorption and a steady, calm and stately demeanor. Bumps and ruts disappear under the car's tires and standard suspension as if they weren't even there. Ride motions are small yet slow, imparting a feeling of steadiness and composure that persists regardless of surface or speed. The highway ride is a serene, smooth glide.
Highs
Has the most comfortable ride of any car we've tested
The A8 comes with a standard adaptive air suspension, which automatically increases or lowers pressure to deliver a smoother or stiffer ride as needed. This suspension delivers a comfortable ride that leaves passengers blissfully unaware of rough pavement. The big Audi comes close to the Mercedes-Benz S-Class’s benchmark plushness, and it’s far superior to the Lexus LS.
What am I getting at? They are very similar, and how they are equipped has an impact on what you prefer and what you choose. The A8 is a great car, and out of the box I agree it rides a little better due to tires. When I was looking and test driving them over and over again I understood that I would immediately replace the run flat tires on the S and 7, and now that I have the S and have done that, theres no longer any ride disparity, I have confidence there is no car that rides better than what I'm driving.
Road noise? All of these cars are very similar. At a 70 MPH cruise I get ~59 decibels in the S Class, A8 and 7 Series, As well as in my previous LS460L. The engine is more muted in the S vs all of those other cars too, especially yours which has the V6. The V8 A8 is much nicer to drive than the V6. Same as with the S Class and 7 Series.
I really with a totally open mind chose between these 3 cars, I had 2 LS460s and 5 other Lexuses. The first car I crossed off my list was the A8 because I just dont like how it looks inside and out and I don't like the user interface. I really labored between the 750 and S Class, I think the 750 is a great looking car and I could have gotten much more equipment for the same money, but in the end I chose the S Class because I love how it looks inside and out, it had the better seats IMO, and just overall the package was the best for me. Note, ride had nothing to do with the choice, they all ride great. All just as quiet inside.
Sales? Well they sold 12,500 S Classes in the US last year, they sold 2,963 A8s. So over 4 times as many S Classes are sold. What gap is being narrowed again?! TheW223 will build on all of the strengths of the W222 and it too will dramatically outsell the A8. I'm also going to throw out there, everyone who has bought an S Class could have afforded an A8. Not everyone who has bought an A8 could have afforded an S Class. Might that provide a window into the behavior we see?
The A8 is a great car, enjoy it. You don't have to keep convincing yourself that it is.
Ah yes, in your eyes it is possible to defeat the laws of physics with RFTs and an ANSI weighted A dosimeter noise measurements on the same road/speed/conditions clearly produces fabricated results. Oh and hey, all of the reviews indicating as such (Carwow, etc) are also hot baloney.
Gosh some of you live really insular lives but as the saying goes ignorance is bliss.
I am; however, really looking forward to comparison tests of the latest and greatest models (including the 2021 LS). I surmise though that some of you may just want to hear what you want to hear. That said, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Ghost, so, meh.
I've had the experience of driving a left hand drive car on the "wrong" side of the road blasting a French based A4 down similar country roads in Ireland.
Review is pretty convincing that it is truly a great car to drive
You're just trolling, you do it on ClubLexus too. We've enjoyed many threads and posts by you there about how inferior that car is too. You bought the A8, and thats great. I don't go posting on Bimmerpost and AudiWorld how much "better" the S560 I chose is all the time. So clearly the person you're constantly trying to convince is yourself.
I have watched EVERY comparison review of these cars no less than 15 times as a part of my buying decision, including the CarWow review you mentioned. This concept you spread that "all the reviews say this" is false. There are plenty of reviews that say the S Class is the best riding car they have ever tested, and direct reviews between the S Class and A8 where they say the A8's ride is inferior.
Everyone can forward to 12:18 for his discussion of ride. What he says, bookended by praise for the ride which you conveniently ignore is that "occasionally" expansion joints and sharp bumps can punch through, and the ride can feel slightly jittery over really rough surfaces. And...he's right. My question to you is, have you driven an S Class on non-runflat tires? The answer is no. I own the exact same spec S class he's driving on non-runflat tires and replacing the run flats with those non runflat tires removed the negative that he mentioned. Those sharp bumps are much better damped with regular tires and really rough surfaces the car just glides over now.
Here is a comparison review where they say the S Class rides better than the A8:
Fast forward to 4:45 for the S Class 6:42 for the A8
Quotes? "The standard air suspension on this car is obviously very comfortable, but it doesnt have the marshmellowiness of the S Class" "yes, its not as wafty as the S Class, you do feel more of the bump" "we reckon the S Class has won this test, S Class it is for ride comfort" "The S Class is still the ultimate luxury car"
Another comparison review that lauds the A8 as the most comfortable ride. Ride Discussion starts at 8:55. I would suggest you check out how high profile the non runflat tires are on their test car:
S Class ride dicussion is at 9:23. Quotes about the S CLass. "Around town you can feel the effect of imperfections reverberating through the interior" and again, he is right...but that comes down to tires and what you're seeing there is the difference between thick higher profile non runflat tires vs lower profile runflats, and the issue he mentioned was solved on my car by going to non run flat tires.
Of all the YouTube reviews the vast majority put the S Class on top.
What am I getting at? They are very similar, and how they are equipped has an impact on what you prefer and what you choose. The A8 is a great car, and out of the box I agree it rides a little better due to tires. When I was looking and test driving them over and over again I understood that I would immediately replace the run flat tires on the S and 7, and now that I have the S and have done that, theres no longer any ride disparity, I have confidence there is no car that rides better than what I'm driving.
Road noise? All of these cars are very similar. At a 70 MPH cruise I get ~59 decibels in the S Class, A8 and 7 Series, As well as in my previous LS460L. The engine is more muted in the S vs all of those other cars too, especially yours which has the V6. The V8 A8 is much nicer to drive than the V6. Same as with the S Class and 7 Series.
I really with a totally open mind chose between these 3 cars, I had 2 LS460s and 5 other Lexuses. The first car I crossed off my list was the A8 because I just dont like how it looks inside and out and I don't like the user interface. I really labored between the 750 and S Class, I think the 750 is a great looking car and I could have gotten much more equipment for the same money, but in the end I chose the S Class because I love how it looks inside and out, it had the better seats IMO, and just overall the package was the best for me. Note, ride had nothing to do with the choice, they all ride great. All just as quiet inside.
Sales? Well they sold 12,500 S Classes in the US last year, they sold 2,963 A8s. So over 4 times as many S Classes are sold. What gap is being narrowed again?! TheW223 will build on all of the strengths of the W222 and it too will dramatically outsell the A8. I'm also going to throw out there, everyone who has bought an S Class could have afforded an A8. Not everyone who has bought an A8 could have afforded an S Class. Might that provide a window into the behavior we see?
The A8 is a great car, enjoy it. You don't have to keep convincing yourself that it is.
The new A8 is trash. No one even looks twice at Audis in general anymore......they hit their peak 10 years ago or so and since then they all look watered down and the same now. Reminds me of how Lexus shifted in the mid 2000's to being white hot for many years to largely being irrelevant in the luxury car game.
The new A8 is trash. No one even looks twice at Audis in general anymore......they hit their peak 10 years ago or so and since then they all look watered down and the same now. Reminds me of how Lexus shifted in the mid 2000's to being white hot for many years to largely being irrelevant in the luxury car game.
Harsh words like above coming from someone who is basing his opinions on what he read on internet and discussing the cars dynamics, comfort and fit and finish with no real hands on experience is irrelevant.
A8 is not "trash", it's a great car that is superior to W222 and for those who don't need or want to show off, is an excellent alternative.
All 3 German cars (7-Series, S-Class and A8) are absolutely World leading luxury cars(Lexus was left way behind long time ago), with the differences mostly very minor and all 3 make a great choice in that segment.
Saying "my car is superior, all else is trash is just very childish and make the reader doubt whether the author is an adult to begin with.
I chose an S63 over M760 only because it was easier to modify, otherwise I would take the BMW or A8 W12 which was supposed to come (but unfortunately was cancelled).
Yeah I totally don't agree wthat Audi and the A8 are trash. The A8 is a great car, and Audi is making GREAT cars, they are really on their game. I also would not say its a "superior" car to the W222, like I said all of these cars are really very excellent and you can't go wrong with any of them. The only car thats really lacking IMO is the LS500, and that comes from a 4 time LS driver.
What I don't like about the A8 is the really anonymous styling (I think the D4 looked more imposing and bigger) , the FWD proportions and long front overhang which I really hate, and the cold too angular and tech focused interior. I don't have any issues with how its built or how it drives or anything like that, its excellent. I would agree the W222 is a little showier than I like, but the A8 is more anonymous than my Lexus was...if that's even possible.
Going out and saying the A8 is trash is trolling just like this guy going around saying the W222 rides poorly is trolling.
Thats one of the things that made deciding on the W222 so hard, there is no clear winner in this class. All the cars have plusses and minuses and overall are excellent. A big reason why I got the W222 is I really love this bodystyle and interior and with it coming to an end this was the last chance to get one new. Otherwise I probbaly would have gotten a 750 and saved the money and gotten an S Class down the line.
What gets me is when people call an A8 a glorified Jetta. All it does is reveal they don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. I've had VW's, several Mercedes, (had Mercedes in the family for nearly 60 years) and an Audi. In some ways my old A4 was a better car than my current E Class. It certainly had a more robust drive-train.
2021 S500 (Mojave Silver), MB S400 (wife), BMW 750Li (passed on to kids)
Originally Posted by Germancar1
No it's not, it's just a test drive/review. It isn't even a U.S. model that is being reviewed. The purpose of a review is to highlight everything on the car, not point out production delays and what options will be in what markets. When the U.S. reviews come in then they will get more specific.
M
Of course it does. As you stated, it’s a “review.” How can you review something and attest “ wow, the ride is amazing,,,with the use of the cameras,,,etc.?” (I’m PARAPHRASING)
The whole point of a (good) review is to tell about an experience. Or else one could just go by press releases, literature, and such, and forego an actual test review.
It’s like saying “wow the 4D Burmester sounds amazing,” but the car doesn’t actually have it, and say “well, it’s just a test drive/review.” (not that he did say that)
Also, what does not reviewing a U.S. model have to do with anything? A US version with E-ABC or 4D Buremester sound system, or a 12.8 OLED center screen, or Napa leather, or, or, or,,, is the same as those of a version from Timbuktu
In addition, when you state “When the U.S. reviews come in then they will get more specific,” are you implying that only US reviews are “more specific” as opposed to German or British or other reviews?
Of course it does. As you stated, it’s a “review.” How can you review something and attest “ wow, the ride is amazing,,,with the use of the cameras,,,etc.?” (I’m PARAPHRASING)
The whole point of a (good) review is to tell about an experience. Or else one could just go by press releases, literature, and such, and forego an actual test review.
It’s like saying “wow the 4D Burmester sounds amazing,” but the car doesn’t actually have it, and say “well, it’s just a test drive/review.” (not that he did say that)
Also, what does not reviewing a U.S. model have to do with anything? A US version with E-ABC or 4D Buremester sound system, or a 12.8 OLED center screen, or Napa leather, or, or, or,,, is the same as those of a version from Timbuktu
In addition, when you state “When the U.S. reviews come in then they will get more specific,” are you implying that only US reviews are “more specific” as opposed to German or British or other reviews?
You clearly have no clue about what a test drive is. You don't know what the car had or not, you don't know if they've driven more than one S-Class or not. No I'm saying that a U.S. review will most likely be reviewing a car that is in U.S. spec and give you a better idea of what is coming here and/or when it's coming. When these press reviews happen they drive a wide variety of cars and they use different cars for the live shots than the ones they drive sometimes. It's absolutely futile to put so much stock in a British review at this point beyond just an general overview of the vehicle. Wait until Car and Driver or other American outlets test a U.S. spec vehicle.
This car looks great. At first, I did not like the interior. It slowly grew on me after watching many videos like his. No doubt this is a fantastic vehicle. That HUD is just wow. Having to use reading glasses now, I love HUDs even more.
Porsche Taycan, Range Rover AB, Range Rover SVR, S Class, Mclaren 570s, Urus Hybrid (soon), M3, RS6
Originally Posted by Sonic Boom
Of course it does. As you stated, it’s a “review.” How can you review something and attest “ wow, the ride is amazing,,,with the use of the cameras,,,etc.?” (I’m PARAPHRASING)
The whole point of a (good) review is to tell about an experience. Or else one could just go by press releases, literature, and such, and forego an actual test review.
It’s like saying “wow the 4D Burmester sounds amazing,” but the car doesn’t actually have it, and say “well, it’s just a test drive/review.” (not that he did say that)
Also, what does not reviewing a U.S. model have to do with anything? A US version with E-ABC or 4D Buremester sound system, or a 12.8 OLED center screen, or Napa leather, or, or, or,,, is the same as those of a version from Timbuktu
In addition, when you state “When the U.S. reviews come in then they will get more specific,” are you implying that only US reviews are “more specific” as opposed to German or British or other reviews?
US models receive a lot more basic spec, 3D Burmester and other features aren't standard here in the UK
Originally Posted by superangrypenguin
Ah yes, in your eyes it is possible to defeat the laws of physics with RFTs and an ANSI weighted A dosimeter noise measurements on the same road/speed/conditions clearly produces fabricated results. Oh and hey, all of the reviews indicating as such (Carwow, etc) are also hot baloney.
Gosh some of you live really insular lives but as the saying goes ignorance is bliss.
I am; however, really looking forward to comparison tests of the latest and greatest models (including the 2021 LS). I surmise though that some of you may just want to hear what you want to hear. That said, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Ghost, so, meh.
What are you talking about? Through physics we can see why RFTs cause a harsher ride through their stiff sidewalls
Has a lot of closeups and wide shots where you can really see the quality. If you skip ahead to 2:52 you can see a nice wide shot of the rear of the cabin.
Totally outclasses the BMW 7 series and Audi A8. Frankly, the Audi shouldn't even be considered as a competitor at this point, as it is so cheap and low quality - a true Volkswagen at the end of the day.
I thought these reviewer quotes were insightful:
"The 2021 S-Class is more expensive than its other German rivals, but it's packed with better tech and a more luxurious cabin."
"As has historically been the case, the S-Class is more expensive than its key German rivals. Both the BMW 740i and Audi A8 55 TFSI are about $20,000 cheaper, but they have a lot less power and a lot less tech. Spec for spec, the S-Class' closest competitors are the BMW 750i xDrive and Audi A8 60 TFSI, which again are a fair bit cheaper, but can't touch the Benz on comfort and technology."
2021 S500 (Mojave Silver), MB S400 (wife), BMW 750Li (passed on to kids)
Originally Posted by Germancar1
You clearly have no clue about what a test drive is. You don't know what the car had or not, you don't know if they've driven more than one S-Class or not. No I'm saying that a U.S. review will most likely be reviewing a car that is in U.S. spec and give you a better idea of what is coming here and/or when it's coming. When these press reviews happen they drive a wide variety of cars and they use different cars for the live shots than the ones they drive sometimes. It's absolutely futile to put so much stock in a British review at this point beyond just an general overview of the vehicle. Wait until Car and Driver or other American outlets test a U.S. spec vehicle.
M
Well, since you clearly seem to know about me and what I know and don’t know more than I do myself, there’s no sense in me saying anything more.
Great video, interior looks really nice, I think green on saddle would be excellent. I found these photos of an Emerald Green S-Class and its beautiful.
Has a lot of closeups and wide shots where you can really see the quality. If you skip ahead to 2:52 you can see a nice wide shot of the rear of the cabin.
Totally outclasses the BMW 7 series and Audi A8. Frankly, the Audi shouldn't even be considered as a competitor at this point, as it is so cheap and low quality - a true Volkswagen at the end of the day.
I thought these reviewer quotes were insightful:
"The 2021 S-Class is more expensive than its other German rivals, but it's packed with better tech and a more luxurious cabin."
"As has historically been the case, the S-Class is more expensive than its key German rivals. Both the BMW 740i and Audi A8 55 TFSI are about $20,000 cheaper, but they have a lot less power and a lot less tech. Spec for spec, the S-Class' closest competitors are the BMW 750i xDrive and Audi A8 60 TFSI, which again are a fair bit cheaper, but can't touch the Benz on comfort and technology."
While the W223 S Class is clearly a much nicer car, the A8 is not cheap and low quality and its certainly not a Volkswagen. In fact there was a period of time that the A8 interiors were of superior quality than the S Class. Mercedes has stepped up it's game in the W222 and W223 and they do cost more.
Is that non metallic black? It looks so good. I like those wheels. Also, what level of rear seating is this? I can see the arm rest folds up, so this can be used as a 5 seater.
Car and Driver has a nice story about the W223 in the new issue. I didn't realize what a great piece of engineering they did with the new six ... a combination of electric supercharging, twin-turbos and an integrated 21 hp motor/generator. If I read the specs correctly this solution gives you 429hp and a 30 mpg highway rating in a 5,000 pound car. They characterize the six as feeling almost as strong as the V8, with the only noticeable difference in power at speeds above 100 mph.
Isn't it ironic they bring this innovative design along just after announcing a halt in ICE development?
Last edited by Tom in Austin; 12-23-2020 at 11:23 AM.
Car and Driver has a nice story about the W223 in the new issue. I didn't realize what a great piece of engineering they did with the new six ... a combination of electric supercharging, twin-turbos and an integrated 21 hp motor/generator. If I read the specs correctly this solution gives you 429hp and a 30 mpg highway rating in a 5,000 pound car. They characterize the six as feeling almost as strong as the V8, with the only noticeable difference in power at speeds above 100 mph.
Isn't it ironic they bring this innovative design along just after announcing a halt in ICE development?
Great result but it is one super complicated piece of kit.
12-18-2020, 09:37 AM
