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The W220 was vastly inferior to the W140 it replaced in my opinion, especially when it came to material quality and fit and finish among the many other quality related issues that generation featured even when new. It was clear that the W220 was designed to fit a budget versus the W140.
Originally Posted by MBS63AMG
I agree. I had 3 Benzes in that era (2000-2006) and they were always having issues. Expensive Chryslers in my opinion. The Chrysler Crossfire was a poor woman's SLK! The W140 was over engineered but one heck of a car. The W220 was the worst thing MB ever put on the lot. I loved my W221 and I still love the W222. That being said, the CL series that ran along side the W220 years was a gorgeous coupe..... I had a 2002 and a 2006.
The 140 was a beast. Bank vault. I liked the 220, had a couple of sedans and a CL which was an amazing car. Never had any issues with any of them. I found the build quality exceptional. The CL was one of my favorites ever. Even had keyless go via keycards.
Our family are MB fans through and through and as I am writing this we have an AMG GTS ( a keeper) as well as a 2014 S 63 AMG and totally love those cars.
We always keep our S class automobiles for the entire 7 year run and buy extended warranties to suit, but of course this time around this went really wrong and I was informed in 2020 that there would be a delay on the next generation S 63 AMG.
As we all know by know this thing really is delayed and the best I can probably hope for is for delivery towards the end of 2022. Very frustrating, but obviously there is nothing I can do about it.
So, I decided to take a look at a S 580 at our dealership, obviously a very different motoring experience but from a look and feel should be pretty similar.
I quite like the exterior, yes, you see the family resemblance and some of the changes that have been made are quite fetching. I wish it did not have the stupid pop out door handles lifted from TESLA but I sure could live with that.
However, words can't describe my disappointment with the interior. I realize these things are a matter of personal preferences and taste but this boy truly hates what they have done to a magnificent and classy interior.
Obviously, whoever was in charge loves TESLA, and while I can tolerate that center oversized i-pad in a high tech electric car like TESLA I think it is really inappropriate for a MB S class, I think MB may have forgotten that leaders do not follow.
I am also galled by the so called instrument cluster in front of the driver - another i-pad - what is up with that?
It looks to me as if somebody who has no style or sensitive went down the path of the least resistance and put a bunch of i-pad not worrying in the least of how all this looks. I would imagine that if you have the rear seat entertainment package which includes another two i-pads attached to the rear of the headrests that will complete the picture.
Maybe it did not help that they put me in a car with that cheap looking black veneer with the horizontal stripes - all I can say is YIKES!
Net, net - as I compare the beautiful interior of my current S63 with this, I just want to cry, and I am a bit at a loss as what to do. I am ok with being patient and waiting for another year for the new AMG S 63., but I am afraid that it fundamentally will mirror this carbuncle of an interior. I hate to say it, I may have to entertain alternatives.
Went to see the new Bentley 8 cylinder Flying Spur - what a beautiful cabin is that ! I realize it is a more expensive car but the taste of the cabin and the quality of the materials are not driven by costs - just direction and a sense of style.
I know BMW is bringing out a new 7 series next year - maybe that could be an option!
I am totally bummed out!
If I were to make a change, I would go with the Audi A8L or better yet, the Porsche Panamera.
The 140 was a beast. Bank vault. I liked the 220, had a couple of sedans and a CL which was an amazing car. Never had any issues with any of them. I found the build quality exceptional. The CL was one of my favorites ever. Even had keyless go via keycards.
Ha! I remember that card. My dad had an S500 with Keyless Go. I remember people being amazed at the tech, same with the power rear seats and the optional text data information service for COMAND, which offered real time stock ticker, news headline updates, etc. Pretty neat stuff for the early 2000s.
The CL was one of my favorites ever. Even had keyless go via keycards.
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The credit card type key you could put in your wallet was a fantastic idea. I would love to have it where that same key could be programmed where you unlock and start all of the MB vehicles you have if not just the one. I also miss the center console transmission stalk with the start/stop button on top of it.
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The credit card type key you could put in your wallet was a fantastic idea. I would love to have it where that same key could be programmed where you unlock and start all of the MB vehicles you have if not just the one. I also miss the center console transmission stalk with the start/stop button on top of it.
The stalk with the button on top was such a slick feature. Sometimes I regret getting rid of that car.
Right, the the 222 had softer lines than the 221, but quality was every bit the same or better. That was never questioned. For many (with S experience) there is a quantifiable difference in quality in the 223. The 220 was somewhat controversial with the departure in "traditional" MB design but quality of materials, fit and finish was not questioned.
As for design, this is purely subjective, one persons mediocracy can be another's excellence.
I have difficulties with this statement because I also remember our past MB's and I found several features or fitments in prior model vastly inferior to its later models.
Couple things I remember...
I recall the bank vault W140 had more electrical gremlins than the W223. From the poles that would not rise in reverse to the car forgetting all kinds of memory positions for seats and mirrors (although I loved the electric center mirror). That carried over right into the W215 CL btw. I also had problems with the rear screen getting stuck on one side and window regulators not liking the heavy double pane windows.
The plastic surround on the front seats in the W220 was terrible and broken in many cars. Or that 8 out of 10 cars in the first couple of years rusted like a pre-war french Renault after coming in contact with water
The W220/W221 were full of plastic interior panels as far as the eye can see. Forget MB-tex, this was straight up plastic. Now we are complaining about single stitching vs double stitching on the dash and panels. Only the S600/65 or Designo models used to have leather covered surfaces.
W222 base leather was, well, pretty basic. Seats are dramatically more luxurious in the base W223.
I find most comments focus on design decisions and I definitely agree that they draw the eye to it. Away from the organically shaped wood panels on the W222 (which used to be also ridiculed) to the larger slab like dash panels, to the vents, offset and oddly located to the large black plastic finger print magnets and the capacitive buttons. Never mind the large center screen. All design decision and none related to fit and finish.
All these cars were a technical tour de force when introduced, all had some issues which are easily forgotten because as a package these cars were fantastic and really unequalled luxury sedans (still are). For reliability, the W222 was a standout IMO yet to no fail Consumer Reports called that model the car to avoid and gave it a 1 out of 5 in reliability (was it 2015 or 2016?).
To reiterate that the W220 was a mix-bag and probably one of the worse S class quality wise. I never liked it from day 1 and could not get over the poor interior quality.
I have difficulties with this statement because I also remember our past MB's and I found several features or fitments in prior model vastly inferior to its later models.
Couple things I remember...
I recall the bank vault W140 had more electrical gremlins than the W223. From the poles that would not rise in reverse to the car forgetting all kinds of memory positions for seats and mirrors (although I loved the electric center mirror). That carried over right into the W215 CL btw. I also had problems with the rear screen getting stuck on one side and window regulators not liking the heavy double pane windows.
The plastic surround on the front seats in the W220 was terrible and broken in many cars. Or that 8 out of 10 cars in the first couple of years rusted like a pre-war french Renault after coming in contact with water
The W220/W221 were full of plastic interior panels as far as the eye can see. Forget MB-tex, this was straight up plastic. Now we are complaining about single stitching vs double stitching on the dash and panels. Only the S600/65 or Designo models used to have leather covered surfaces.
W222 base leather was, well, pretty basic. Seats are dramatically more luxurious in the base W223.
I find most comments focus on design decisions and I definitely agree that they draw the eye to it. Away from the organically shaped wood panels on the W222 (which used to be also ridiculed) to the larger slab like dash panels, to the vents, offset and oddly located to the large black plastic finger print magnets and the capacitive buttons. Never mind the large center screen. All design decision and none related to fit and finish.
All these cars were a technical tour de force when introduced, all had some issues which are easily forgotten because as a package these cars were fantastic and really unequalled luxury sedans (still are). For reliability, the W222 was a standout IMO yet to no fail Consumer Reports called that model the car to avoid and gave it a 1 out of 5 in reliability (was it 2015 or 2016?).
Not to mention the W140's AC evaporators that would invariably fail and required the entire dashboard to be disassembled to fix them.
I have difficulties with this statement because I also remember our past MB's and I found several features or fitments in prior model vastly inferior to its later models.
Couple things I remember...
I recall the bank vault W140 had more electrical gremlins than the W223. From the poles that would not rise in reverse to the car forgetting all kinds of memory positions for seats and mirrors (although I loved the electric center mirror). That carried over right into the W215 CL btw. I also had problems with the rear screen getting stuck on one side and window regulators not liking the heavy double pane windows.
The plastic surround on the front seats in the W220 was terrible and broken in many cars. Or that 8 out of 10 cars in the first couple of years rusted like a pre-war french Renault after coming in contact with water
The W220/W221 were full of plastic interior panels as far as the eye can see. Forget MB-tex, this was straight up plastic. Now we are complaining about single stitching vs double stitching on the dash and panels. Only the S600/65 or Designo models used to have leather covered surfaces.
W222 base leather was, well, pretty basic. Seats are dramatically more luxurious in the base W223.
I find most comments focus on design decisions and I definitely agree that they draw the eye to it. Away from the organically shaped wood panels on the W222 (which used to be also ridiculed) to the larger slab like dash panels, to the vents, offset and oddly located to the large black plastic finger print magnets and the capacitive buttons. Never mind the large center screen. All design decision and none related to fit and finish.
All these cars were a technical tour de force when introduced, all had some issues which are easily forgotten because as a package these cars were fantastic and really unequalled luxury sedans (still are). For reliability, the W222 was a standout IMO yet to no fail Consumer Reports called that model the car to avoid and gave it a 1 out of 5 in reliability (was it 2015 or 2016?).
Maybe all experiences are different. I had no issues with both 220 sedans and the CL, perhaps a few minors that I can't even recall.
As for the 140/223 comparison, not sure how in the world you can blindly assume and purely speculate without fact the 223 has fewer gremlins than the 140? Talk about having difficulties with a statement, this is clearly biased as the 223 has just been released and making it to market. Your point isn't even quantifiable. Hopefully we can revisit this in a few years after several hundred thousand 223's have made it to consumers and cycled through.
Off topic, but the other day after watching BenzBlogger's TikTok I actually realized that the vents can technically be symmetrical depending on your perspective. From a straight angle they appear offset but in the driver's seat perspective they are symmetrical, interesting design choice.
Granted, this also isn't the first time an S-Class has had non-symmetrical vents.
Maybe all experiences are different. I had no issues with both 220 sedans and the CL, perhaps a few minors that I can't even recall.
As for the 140/223 comparison, not sure how in the world you can blindly assume and purely speculate without fact the 223 has fewer gremlins than the 140? Talk about having difficulties with a statement, this is clearly biased as the 223 has just been released and making it to market. Your point isn't even quantifiable. Hopefully we can revisit this in a few years after several hundred thousand 223's have made it to consumers and cycled through.
Granted we will have to see how the W223 will do but for what I have seen so far I there are less structural issues on the W223 than on the W140. Mostly electronic I would say but time will tell.
Factory shutdowns and people working part-time due to Covid seemed to have allowed several QC failures to slip through, which is very regrettable for the owners.
My point was that we fondly remember the W140 (I do as well and enjoyed the ownership) because as a whole, the issues were relegated to minor nuisances compared to the benefits.
As for our CL500, that cars driver seat would never return to the same position once pulled forward when we had somebody sit in the back. Also the the car was always sitting a touch taller on the passenger side and they could never correct it via software. Still loved the car and pillar-less greenhouse.
I have difficulties with this statement because I also remember our past MB's and I found several features or fitments in prior model vastly inferior to its later models.
Couple things I remember...
I recall the bank vault W140 had more electrical gremlins than the W223. From the poles that would not rise in reverse to the car forgetting all kinds of memory positions for seats and mirrors (although I loved the electric center mirror). That carried over right into the W215 CL btw. I also had problems with the rear screen getting stuck on one side and window regulators not liking the heavy double pane windows.
The plastic surround on the front seats in the W220 was terrible and broken in many cars. Or that 8 out of 10 cars in the first couple of years rusted like a pre-war french Renault after coming in contact with water
The W220/W221 were full of plastic interior panels as far as the eye can see. Forget MB-tex, this was straight up plastic. Now we are complaining about single stitching vs double stitching on the dash and panels. Only the S600/65 or Designo models used to have leather covered surfaces.
W222 base leather was, well, pretty basic. Seats are dramatically more luxurious in the base W223.
I find most comments focus on design decisions and I definitely agree that they draw the eye to it. Away from the organically shaped wood panels on the W222 (which used to be also ridiculed) to the larger slab like dash panels, to the vents, offset and oddly located to the large black plastic finger print magnets and the capacitive buttons. Never mind the large center screen. All design decision and none related to fit and finish.
All these cars were a technical tour de force when introduced, all had some issues which are easily forgotten because as a package these cars were fantastic and really unequalled luxury sedans (still are). For reliability, the W222 was a standout IMO yet to no fail Consumer Reports called that model the car to avoid and gave it a 1 out of 5 in reliability (was it 2015 or 2016?).
The W222 has been the most reliable vehicle I have ever owned, and I've been in and out of over 50 cars over the past 40 years.
To reiterate that the W220 was a mix-bag and probably one of the worse S class quality wise. I never liked it from day 1 and could not get over the poor interior quality.
Off topic, but the other day after watching BenzBlogger's TikTok I actually realized that the vents can technically be symmetrical depending on your perspective. From a straight angle they appear offset but in the driver's seat perspective they are symmetrical, interesting design choice.
Granted, this also isn't the first time an S-Class has had non-symmetrical vents.
The W140 was a low point from an interior design perspective. Those off center vents drive me nuts, all because they couldn't consolidate the gauges or make a few LCD readouts.
The contemporary E38 was miles ahead from a design standpoint. It still is one of the best automotive interiors ever made.
The W140 was a low point from an interior design perspective. Those off center vents drive me nuts, all because they couldn't consolidate the gauges or make a few LCD readouts.
The contemporary E38 was miles ahead from a design standpoint. It still is one of the best automotive interiors ever made.
Now that you've pointed that out, it does look pretty bad.
The W140 was a low point from an interior design perspective. Those off center vents drive me nuts, all because they couldn't consolidate the gauges or make a few LCD readouts.
The contemporary E38 was miles ahead from a design standpoint. It still is one of the best automotive interiors ever made.
My first brand new MB was a 1996 S420 and I never noticed the offset vents until just this year. I also had a used 94 S500.
I disagree that the W140 interior was a low point. I agree that the off-center vents are annoying, I said the same about the 223. But look at the line from the passenger vent that continues along the top of the air bag cover and further over the center vents in the form of what I recall was a small drawer. Decisions were made, including compromises, however while dated the interior looks solid to me.
What I do agree with you is, the E38 was the best 7 ever made. Gorgeous car!
Originally Posted by JD101b
The W140 was a low point from an interior design perspective. Those off center vents drive me nuts, all because they couldn't consolidate the gauges or make a few LCD readouts.
The contemporary E38 was miles ahead from a design standpoint. It still is one of the best automotive interiors ever made.
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