When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Lmao, I'll admit I'm not a fan of Lexus products but I find it almost amusing to see them ranked so high on safety, technology and interior layout. I also find Genesis's rugedness funny, as well as tesla ranking so high for sophistication.
Agreed. I will give them the reliability point. Driving comfort if you like floating on an old couch and in regards to safety, they have been going a good job copying the innovations of others. Definitely not a car I would rent in Germany.
Agreed. I will give them the reliability point. Driving comfort if you like floating on an old couch and in regards to safety, they have been going a good job copying the innovations of others. Definitely not a car I would rent in Germany.
I won't even give them too much credit for comfort. The last GX I drove was actually shockingly cmofortable for a truck, but then I drove a 20 inch wheel non F Sport RX and was unhappy at how underdamped the ride was. It was floaty, but it crashed over bumps and continued to move around for a while after. Felt unsettled. Add to that the engine and trans that felt right out of a Higlander and the mediocer interior and poor infotainment, and I was not impressed. Only good things were the price (better equipped then the German's at around 60k) and the rear seat room which was much better then the X5 and almost as good as the GLE, plus the ventillated seats which worked really well.
This makes no sense to me. A customer is a customer and it's up to the dealer to treat everyone well, wether they buy a used S-Class for $40k or a new GLC43 for $70k or a Mercedes-branded mug for that matter. Chances are the GLC customer will be the more profitable one over time anyways.
Not that $100k is that much for a car anymore.
I agree. Perhaps it doesn't make sense but it makes more sense than building separate dealerships with additional mechanics.
There are lot of quality issues with new releases, eg GLB, GLE, not less satisfaction due to lacking luxury.... MB cannot control the quality of their vehicles, esp now that they are using non German factories... The question becomes in 20 years if there are folks left saying I grabbed MB with my father and still I am happy with the brand (see below video)....A/B classes are MB's best selling vehicles in Europe where parking is an issue... Not everybody wants to drive a big S class...
E Class is Taxis in Germany - Not in MB interest any more (see video below)....
G Class - for Hollywood Blvd (see Jay Leno's G63 review with MB-US mgr)
S Class is Taxis for the executives in NYC, China and other rich countries for leaders/ uber rich where MB wants to concentrate... In Manhattan, you can see bunch of S class cars with drivers taking the executives from their office in Manhattan to their multimillion $ condos or mansions in Hampton or private planes... They don't deal with the MB service centers or airports like some other folks...
MB will reduce their sales network with less car sales, less service centers as well, esp when electric vehicles do not need service like ICE cars...
Chrysler partnership didn't work out... Nissan partnership didn't work out... China is the new partner... A new direction (no more compact cars) in below documentaries from Germany (Dec 22, 22):
Everything on luxury - where is Mercedes Benz? Soon only cars for the rich? And what about factories and jobs?
Exclusive interview with Mercedes boss Källenius. Everything in luxury, no trade war with the USA, partnership with China on an equal footing, commitment to Baden-Württemberg. In his first longer German TV interview, the Mercedes boss gives insights into his corporate strategy.
Is it going to be successful? Time will tell... Questions is what will be left as MB? What is going to differentiate MB apart from American, Japanese, Korean and newer Chinese car makers or other luxury brands like Bentley/Rolls Royce, esp MB produces electric vehicles that are shaped like a pebble for efficiency and use the same electronics, when competition is winning awards with new luxury models like Genesis at lower prices... With increasing electrification, more and more uniqueness will soon be lost. So we have below results:
There are lot of quality issues with new releases, eg GLB, GLE, not less satisfaction due to lacking luxury.... MB cannot control the quality of their vehicles, esp now that they are using non German factories... The question becomes in 20 years if there are folks left saying I grabbed MB with my father and still I am happy with the brand (see below video)....A/B classes are MB's best selling vehicles in Europe where parking is an issue... Not everybody wants to drive a big S class...
E Class is Taxis in Germany - Not in MB interest any more (see video below)....
G Class - for Hollywood Blvd (see Jay Leno's G63 review with MB-US mgr)
S Class is Taxis for the executives in NYC, China and other rich countries for leaders/ uber rich where MB wants to concentrate... In Manhattan, you can see bunch of S class cars with drivers taking the executives from their office in Manhattan to their multimillion $ condos or mansions in Hampton or private planes... They don't deal with the MB service centers or airports like some other folks...
MB will reduce their sales network with less car sales, less service centers as well, esp when electric vehicles do not need service like ICE cars...
Chrysler partnership didn't work out... Nissan partnership didn't work out... China is the new partner... A new direction (no more compact cars) in below documentaries from Germany (Dec 22, 22):
Everything on luxury - where is Mercedes Benz? Soon only cars for the rich? And what about factories and jobs?
Exclusive interview with Mercedes boss Källenius. Everything in luxury, no trade war with the USA, partnership with China on an equal footing, commitment to Baden-Württemberg. In his first longer German TV interview, the Mercedes boss gives insights into his corporate strategy.
Is it going to be successful? Time will tell... Questions is what will be left as MB? What is going to differentiate MB apart from American, Japanese, Korean and newer Chinese car makers or other luxury brands like Bentley/Rolls Royce, esp MB produces electric vehicles that are shaped like a pebble for efficiency and use the same electronics, when competition is winning awards with new luxury models like Genesis at lower prices... With increasing electrification, more and more uniqueness will soon be lost. So we have below results:
Great post. I see MB retreating to its Alamo of the S, SL and G. They failed to successfully operate a global manufacturing network and failed at a brand/model proliferation strategy. So it’s back to the knitting where they have half a hope of being partially successful.
But this time it’s different than in the 1970s. VAG owns Bentley and BMW owns RR, which gives the upper brands more financial firepower than in the days of yore. And Genesis is aiming for the Germans and so far is succeeding.
It’s getting to a truly ridiculous point now, with the effect being the continuing dilution of the luxury experience, at least in the USA. You take your $135K++ S Class, Maybach, SL, etc. in for service and there you are in an absolute SEA of vehicles that are comparatively “econoboxes.” If the dealer in question is also a Metris/Sprinter store, you have those commercial vehicles in the mix as well. It seems that if one wants a true luxury experience these days, they need to go with a Bentley, Rolls or possibly even a Porsche to get a reasonably elegant dealer experience.
This is probably the umpteenth time I’ve said this, but it’s time to split the dealerships up: Mercedes-Benz dealerships for perhaps E Class and above, Daimler-Benz dealerships for everything below. Then, we can look forward to seeing the latest “Honda Civic Fighter” at our local DB dealer.
I disagree. I would love to see them go back upmarket instead. Cut out the crap! A, B, GLA, CLA, GLC, GLB all the entry level crap. Make the C Class more upmarket by giving it more luxury. More color options and more room for customization like Porsche does.
Have the following:
C Class
E Class
CLS
GLE
GLS
G
S Class/Maybach
SL
AMG Products
All a dream however. If I ran the zoo
Last edited by C280 Sport; 02-22-2023 at 10:41 PM.
To me the problem with both is that the value equation versus desirability factor is it out whack: Go that way you get a 3 pointed star on the cheap, buy something else for the same money you get more actual stuff.
My guess is that owners of the GLA/B are getting into significantly better equipped Santa Fe's (or whatever) and finding they don't like having the same hard plastics and less features in their car.
Hard plastics and lack of content aside you won’t be replacing window regulators annually in the MB like the Hyundai. Among other things. The Koreans went to extraordinary lengths to save money. How much did you save when the cretins let themselves into your Kia/Hyundai mostly via breaking a window and break up all the PLASTIC around the electrical portion of the ignition switch to drive the car away?
I disagree. I would love to see them go back upmarket instead. Cut out the crap! A, B, GLA, CLA, GLC, GLB all the entry level crap. Make the C Class more upmarket by giving it more luxury. More color options and more room for customization like Porsche does.
2015 CLS 550 2015 ML 400 Previous 2020 GLB 250 2019 A 220 2005 ML 350 1989 300 E 2001 SL 500
Originally Posted by C280 Sport
I disagree. I would love to see them go back upmarket instead. Cut out the crap! A, B, GLA, CLA, GLC, GLB all the entry level crap. Make the C Class more upmarket by giving it more luxury. More color options and more room for customization like Porsche does.
Have the following:
C Class
E Class
CLS
GLE
GLS
G
S Class/Maybach
SL
AMG Products
All a dream however. If I ran the zoo
They are dropping a lot of the entry level stuff. Have to have the GLC though.
Honestly, a good start would be to drop all the SUVs along with the Alabama factory. I realize the SUVs are money makers with over 50% of car buyers now choosing an SUV, a sad story I might add, but they haven't done the brand any favors. The only SUV MB should continue to build is the G wagon. The build quality coming out of the Alabama factory continues to lag behind the European factories. I don't have much data on the South Africa factory, mainly because it mostly built the C Class sedans for markets outside of North America. For North America the C Class sedans were also built at the Alabama factory for most of their lifecycle and it showed. The coupes and verts, which were built in Bremen, Germany were noticeably better put together. The GLC surprisingly continues to be built in Bremen as well, which is likely why it does better.
I am in Germany now and am surprised at the number of MLs I have seen. Even today I saw a handful of W164s, while at home in the US I rarely see these.
Anecdotally, SUVs are increasing in popularity in Germany. The X3 for example does fairly well, and I have seen some MB EQ SUVs.
The GLC is a nothing burger. It sells but is not luxury.
Luxury = Designo-level leather + 4 corner air suspension + custom colors + the highest level of electronic gadgetry. GLC ain't it. Cayenne and GLE can be done up nicely. X5 barely gets there.
Honestly, a good start would be to drop all the SUVs along with the Alabama factory. I realize the SUVs are money makers with over 50% of car buyers now choosing an SUV, a sad story I might add, but they haven't done the brand any favors. The only SUV MB should continue to build is the G wagon. The build quality coming out of the Alabama factory continues to lag behind the European factories. I don't have much data on the South Africa factory, mainly because it mostly built the C Class sedans for markets outside of North America. For North America the C Class sedans were also built at the Alabama factory for most of their lifecycle and it showed. The coupes and verts, which were built in Bremen, Germany were noticeably better put together. The GLC surprisingly continues to be built in Bremen as well, which is likely why it does better.
Drop their most profitable and popular models? Thats absurd. Dropping their SUVs would be suicide.
Drop their most profitable and popular models? Thats absurd. Dropping their SUVs would be suicide.
That's why I said they are the money makers, but on the other hand Porsche manages to be the most profitable car company with only two SUV base models instead of the GLA, GLB, GLC, GLE, GLS and G wagon galore that MB has, oh and let's not forget the EQC (sold primarily in Europe) and now the EQS SUV and the upcoming EQE SUV. Take the G wagon and maybe the GLC. Make the GLC great and call it a day, then use the profits to finance exciting AMG models like Porsche uses their SUVs to finance the development of their entire 911 lineup. On top of that have a popular EV to bring down the fleet average, again like Porsche is doing with the Taycan. They have to sell and do sell two Taycans for every 911 to meet their fleet average.
Last edited by superswiss; 02-23-2023 at 07:40 PM.
2015 CLS 550 2015 ML 400 Previous 2020 GLB 250 2019 A 220 2005 ML 350 1989 300 E 2001 SL 500
Originally Posted by superswiss
That's why I said they are the money makers, but on the other hand Porsche manages to be the most profitable car company with only two SUV base models instead of the GLA, GLB, GLC, GLE, GLS and G wagon galore that MB has, oh and let's not forget the EQC (sold primarily in Europe) and now the EQS SUV and the upcoming EQE SUV. Take the G wagon and maybe the GLC. Make the GLC great and call it a day, then use the profits to finance exciting AMG models like Porsche uses their SUVs to finance the development of their entire 911 lineup. On top of that have a popular EV to bring down the fleet average, again like Porsche is doing with the Taycan. They have to sell and do sell two Taycans for every 911 to meet their fleet average.
Porsche is a small company that leverages VW's platforms. Plenty of bargain cheeseburger Macans running around too. Mercedes needs volume. Plenty of people really like the GLC and it does serve as a gateway model to bigger more expensive cars. Mercedes has always been a company that straddles the luxury line. 240D, 190E, W202-205 C Class weren't luxury either. They were necessary models. The new GLC looks like a big improvement.
Yet with their current strategy they are going the complete opposite way. The volume is in the A and B Class and they are cutting those and are moving upmarket to sell fewer cars with higher margins.
2015 CLS 550 2015 ML 400 Previous 2020 GLB 250 2019 A 220 2005 ML 350 1989 300 E 2001 SL 500
Originally Posted by superswiss
Yet with their current strategy they are going the complete opposite way. The volume is in the A and B Class and they are cutting those and are moving upmarket to sell fewer cars with higher margins.
A Class sold in small numbers. Best volume seller? GLC. C Class second. Yes, the goal is to sell fewer cars at higher margins. Electric cars will have to sell in bigger numbers.
Honestly, a good start would be to drop all the SUVs along with the Alabama factory. I realize the SUVs are money makers with over 50% of car buyers now choosing an SUV, a sad story I might add, but they haven't done the brand any favors. The only SUV MB should continue to build is the G wagon. The build quality coming out of the Alabama factory continues to lag behind the European factories. I don't have much data on the South Africa factory, mainly because it mostly built the C Class sedans for markets outside of North America. For North America the C Class sedans were also built at the Alabama factory for most of their lifecycle and it showed. The coupes and verts, which were built in Bremen, Germany were noticeably better put together. The GLC surprisingly continues to be built in Bremen as well, which is likely why it does better.
Greatest post ever!
Watched the Vance Alabama Factory get built from the ground up. Wife's best friend is a Scientist at UAB. We had a ML320 on order...glad I cancelled it and later got the last 2dr 1999 Tahoe Sport with my GM Employee Discount.
At 62, I've given up on future cars until they fly like in West World or Blade Runner 2049 where my ashes can be dispersed over the Desert where they won't remember my name...
That's why I said they are the money makers, but on the other hand Porsche manages to be the most profitable car company with only two SUV base models instead of the GLA, GLB, GLC, GLE, GLS and G wagon galore that MB has, oh and let's not forget the EQC (sold primarily in Europe) and now the EQS SUV and the upcoming EQE SUV. Take the G wagon and maybe the GLC. Make the GLC great and call it a day, then use the profits to finance exciting AMG models like Porsche uses their SUVs to finance the development of their entire 911 lineup. On top of that have a popular EV to bring down the fleet average, again like Porsche is doing with the Taycan. They have to sell and do sell two Taycans for every 911 to meet their fleet average.
Porsche and Mercedes are very different companies. Porsche benefits from being owned by a huge conglomerate in VAG, Mercedes is out there on its own. Profitability from VW, Audi etc prop up Porsche.
like Porsche uses their SUVs to finance the development of their entire 911 lineup
And you would do this by cancelling the SUVs? Makes no sense.
SUVs are the growth market, doing away with the GLE and GLS would be profoundly stupid as a larger and larger % of their sales as years go by are going to be the SUVs.
You can't just look at a business and say "they should cancel everything I don't like, even though they are the main profit drivers and just make what I like"...its a business.
Porsche and Mercedes are very different companies. Porsche benefits from being owned by a huge conglomerate in VAG, Mercedes is out there on its own. Profitability from VW, Audi etc prop up Porsche.
.
Quite the opposite. Porsche is the cash cow within VAG, which is why it went public. I think that's about all I have to say on this.
They are the cash cow because of the revenue that comes from the rest of VAG allows Porsche to be a big profit generator. Porsche only brings in 30B Euro or 14% so of VAG's revenue. If Porsche were a company out on their own like Mercedes, their approach would be far different. They would either have more diversified models or dramatically scaled back operations.
As you can see, VW brings in exponentially more revenue than Porsche, as does Audi:
It simply makes no sense for Mercedes to drop SUVs. If anything they should drop sedans and coupes nobody wants to buy and invest more in SUVs.
They are the cash cow because of the revenue that comes from the rest of VAG allows Porsche to be a big profit generator. Porsche only brings in 30B Euro or 14% so of VAG's revenue. If Porsche were a company out on their own like Mercedes, their approach would be far different. They would either have more diversified models or dramatically scaled back operations.
As you can see, VW brings in exponentially more revenue than Porsche, as does Audi:
It simply makes no sense for Mercedes to drop SUVs. If anything they should drop sedans and coupes nobody wants to buy and invest more in SUVs.
Once profit margins for Trucks and SUVs eclipsed that of passenger cars by a factor of 5 began the downfall of the automobile in the USA.
Nowadays Cars and SUVs pretty much drive themselves and with technology, performance Marks like AMG and BMW M Division allow enthusiasts to lap Circuits at 8/10ths after a few weekends with professional instruction. I get thrills on motorcycles at my limit or driving AWD vehicles like my old WRX offroad.
In above charts noticed that MAN Commercial Trucks make up a few Billion Euros of Volkswagon Group's Total Revenue. At my age, would love to pilot a 1500-hp Diesel MAN TGX racetruck around a FIA Circuit! Used to drive Mack, KW, and Peterbuilt trucks 14-hours a day on and off-road in the Permian Basin Oilfields for about 5-years after a 30-year Engineering Career was completed engaging aerial targets and blowing up tactical missiles to mortars with live warheads in flight with High Energy Lasers at White Sands Missile Range.
A Class sold in small numbers. Best volume seller? GLC. C Class second. Yes, the goal is to sell fewer cars at higher margins. Electric cars will have to sell in bigger numbers.
MB globally sells annually more than 1m A* and C* ICE and EV vehicles. The US is an anomaly in the global small car/small SUV market.
Honestly, a good start would be to drop all the SUVs along with the Alabama factory. I realize the SUVs are money makers with over 50% of car buyers now choosing an SUV, a sad story I might add, but they haven't done the brand any favors. The only SUV MB should continue to build is the G wagon. The build quality coming out of the Alabama factory continues to lag behind the European factories. I don't have much data on the South Africa factory, mainly because it mostly built the C Class sedans for markets outside of North America. For North America the C Class sedans were also built at the Alabama factory for most of their lifecycle and it showed. The coupes and verts, which were built in Bremen, Germany were noticeably better put together. The GLC surprisingly continues to be built in Bremen as well, which is likely why it does better.
Your claims about build quality at the Alabama factory have been largely disproven over the years. I agree that the entry level cars weren't up to MB standards because they were built to a price. The 190E or W201 worked because it wasn't built to a price and it really was a baby S class as noted by MB's marketing of the 190E during the production run. Such can not be said with the more recent entry level offerings. The C class today exists because of the success of the 190E and the W206 is again being marketed by MB as a baby S class.
02-14-2023, 11:30 AM
