Least satisfying cars...
#101
MBWorld Fanatic!
Yes, but the difference is how much of that is going into the mechanic or technician’s pocket versus that lawyer or consultant. There’s a huge disparity there and why it is a racket in my eyes.
And most attorneys don’t make $400k+ a year.
And most attorneys don’t make $400k+ a year.
#102
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,370
Received 2,660 Likes
on
1,707 Posts
2020 S560 4Matic
Thats a good point which I agree with, that I'll get back to in a minute. What I'm saying still holds true; these kinds of things are often a reaction to what has transpired during the process of providing the service. I see it with my rentals, you absolutely would not believe what some people will do until you've seen it. Once you have seen it you immediately understand how these policies get put in place.
As to your point: I was last in for a software update which was finished at 5 PM on a Friday. I told him I had already busted into the evening's Prosecco and wanted to bring the car back in the morning. They had no problem with it. I've done much the same many times because I used to have a house on an island north of Seattle which was a couple hour drive and a ferry to get to the dealership. I've never had them not work with me on returning a loaner. I'm not talking big accommodations, reasonable asks, and they always worked with me.
I honestly think if you knew you had a weekend trip and told them that if your car wasn't ready you would need to take the loaner, they would give you the go ahead.
As to your point: I was last in for a software update which was finished at 5 PM on a Friday. I told him I had already busted into the evening's Prosecco and wanted to bring the car back in the morning. They had no problem with it. I've done much the same many times because I used to have a house on an island north of Seattle which was a couple hour drive and a ferry to get to the dealership. I've never had them not work with me on returning a loaner. I'm not talking big accommodations, reasonable asks, and they always worked with me.
I honestly think if you knew you had a weekend trip and told them that if your car wasn't ready you would need to take the loaner, they would give you the go ahead.
Yeah, there's got to be a history to this policy. Out of curiosity I just checked my most recent loaner agreement. Return is within 12 hours of service completion unless otherwise authorized in writing, but I never had any issues if the service was completed and I picked it up the next morning. Just texted the SA what time I will pick it up, and the mileage limit is 100 miles per day. But as said above, usually as long as you get authorization for anything outside the standard policy there shouldn't be an issue. I've done road trips with loaner cars in the past, because service took longer than expected. A loaner agreement is essentially a rental agreement. Even rental cars come with restrictions. If you are renting a higher end vehicle, they also may come with a mileage limit and beyond that you have to pay extra. While they may have to keep your car for several days and due to their workload may not get to it the day you drop it off, they are not using it to drive around, so it's a bit different and in exchange you get a free rental that you are allowed to use within reason, and anything beyond that needs authorization.
Asking me to drive that little car for one day and limit my travel to 100 miles and a 75 mile radius for one day is one thing, to expect me to do that for a week while my car sits over there parked not even being looked at is ridiculous. I told him today, either put me in a better car or give me mine back and I will bring it back by monday morning...
Euro Motorcars in Bethesda and Germantown. My experience with them overall has been very good, service has just become very slow.
You must not work with lawyers and consultants often. $210/hr is the entry level Associate attorney rate. Partner bills more than that, if you are working with a lawyer who knows what he/she is doing. Same comment for top tier consultants.
$2-handle shop rate for MB and Porsche is what it is - the going rate. Complain all you want; you can either pay it, go to an Indy or DIY.
$2-handle shop rate for MB and Porsche is what it is - the going rate. Complain all you want; you can either pay it, go to an Indy or DIY.
And most attorneys don’t make $400k+ a year.
Last edited by SW20S; 03-04-2023 at 09:43 AM.
The following users liked this post:
chassis (03-04-2023)
#103
MBWorld Fanatic!
Well, there’s a big difference between a typical attorney and a good one. The run-of-the-mill attorney doesn’t make anywhere near that, and the vast majority of attorneys are “typical.” I also don’t think techs are making upwards of $200k a year, either. I could be wrong but that sounds a bit rich to me. Depending on the area and experience I would guess anywhere $50k to maybe $100k? But I really have no idea.
Assuming a lead tech is pulling $100k, that means the dealer is pocketing upwards of $150 an hour.
Assuming a lead tech is pulling $100k, that means the dealer is pocketing upwards of $150 an hour.
Last edited by Frenetic; 03-04-2023 at 09:59 AM.
#104
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: unbegrenzt
Posts: 13,342
Received 3,931 Likes
on
3,095 Posts
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Private practice attorneys are probably not billing at 2am on the weekends like big firm Associates trying to make Partner, and who bring in the coin.
Right guys? I know there are attorneys on this site.
#105
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: unbegrenzt
Posts: 13,342
Received 3,931 Likes
on
3,095 Posts
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Well, there’s a big difference between a typical attorney and a good one. The run-of-the-mill attorney doesn’t make anywhere near that, and the vast majority of attorneys are “typical.” I also don’t think a techs are making upwards of $200k a year, either. I could be wrong but that sounds a bit rich to me. Depending on the area and experience I would guess anywhere $50k to maybe $100k? But I really have no idea.
The dealer is exchanging value for value.
Value delivered is service work done by a trained tech in proper facilities with the specified tools and genuine parts. And has insurance and warrants the work. Plus coffee (if the coffee machine isn’t broken), granola bars (if the receptionist remembered to restock) and (probably not) a loaner.
Value received is $210/hr plus margin on already expensive parts.
Tech compensation plays no role in dealer service pricing.
#106
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: unbegrenzt
Posts: 13,342
Received 3,931 Likes
on
3,095 Posts
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Well, there’s a big difference between a typical attorney and a good one. The run-of-the-mill attorney doesn’t make anywhere near that, and the vast majority of attorneys are “typical.” I also don’t think techs are making upwards of $200k a year, either. I could be wrong but that sounds a bit rich to me. Depending on the area and experience I would guess anywhere $50k to maybe $100k? But I really have no idea.
Assuming a lead tech is pulling $100k, that means the dealer is pocketing upwards of $150 an hour.
Assuming a lead tech is pulling $100k, that means the dealer is pocketing upwards of $150 an hour.
#107
MBWorld Fanatic!
That was the point. If you read what I said I stated “typical,” “average.” I understand there are senior attorneys or partners at large firms pulling in way more than that, but the vast majority of attorneys out there aren’t making anywhere near that. Not everyone can be that partner at the law firm.
I’ve paid no lawyers fees recently other than a divorce lawyer 13 years ago at $150 an hour.
I’ve paid no lawyers fees recently other than a divorce lawyer 13 years ago at $150 an hour.
The following users liked this post:
chassis (03-04-2023)
#108
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,370
Received 2,660 Likes
on
1,707 Posts
2020 S560 4Matic
Well, there’s a big difference between a typical attorney and a good one. The run-of-the-mill attorney doesn’t make anywhere near that, and the vast majority of attorneys are “typical.” I also don’t think techs are making upwards of $200k a year, either. I could be wrong but that sounds a bit rich to me. Depending on the area and experience I would guess anywhere $50k to maybe $100k? But I really have no idea.
Assuming a lead tech is pulling $100k, that means the dealer is pocketing upwards of $150 an hour.
Assuming a lead tech is pulling $100k, that means the dealer is pocketing upwards of $150 an hour.
But, if they are employed by a firm they are making that and more if they have been around a while. $150 an hour was CHEAP even 13 years ago. I'm not an attorney, I'm in the real estate business but I do some consulting also and I bill at $350 an hour. Our attorneys that we have on retainer bill at over $400 an hour. My accountants bill at over $200 an hour.
I see people's incomes as a part of my job, and you would be amazed how much money people make.
As for techs, it depends on the tech. Are they a master diagnostic tech with tons of accreditation and experience? They actually can make $200k. An oil change tech? Dramatically less.
The following users liked this post:
chassis (03-05-2023)
#109
Super Member
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Hong Kong, China
Posts: 893
Received 396 Likes
on
265 Posts
2021 S450 4Matic
If it is just an one time incident, I would forgive them.
It is always like this. Who wants whom more?
If you need their service, you will have to bend to their rules and policy.
But, if they need your business more, then they will have to improve or risk losing a customer.
#110
MBWorld Fanatic!
It depends on what you define as a run of the mill attorney. Are they a small time attorney defending speeding tickets and landlord tenant issues and things like that? Then they are probably not making $400k, but can easily be making $250k. Are they employed by a company in some capacity that doesn't involve billing clients, or the government? Then yeah theyre not making anywhere near that, probably $150k-180k.
But, if they are employed by a firm they are making that and more if they have been around a while. $150 an hour was CHEAP even 13 years ago. I'm not an attorney, I'm in the real estate business but I do some consulting also and I bill at $350 an hour. Our attorneys that we have on retainer bill at over $400 an hour. My accountants bill at over $200 an hour.
I see people's incomes as a part of my job, and you would be amazed how much money people make.
As for techs, it depends on the tech. Are they a master diagnostic tech with tons of accreditation and experience? They actually can make $200k. An oil change tech? Dramatically less.
But, if they are employed by a firm they are making that and more if they have been around a while. $150 an hour was CHEAP even 13 years ago. I'm not an attorney, I'm in the real estate business but I do some consulting also and I bill at $350 an hour. Our attorneys that we have on retainer bill at over $400 an hour. My accountants bill at over $200 an hour.
I see people's incomes as a part of my job, and you would be amazed how much money people make.
As for techs, it depends on the tech. Are they a master diagnostic tech with tons of accreditation and experience? They actually can make $200k. An oil change tech? Dramatically less.
The following users liked this post:
chassis (03-05-2023)
#111
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,370
Received 2,660 Likes
on
1,707 Posts
2020 S560 4Matic
It is always like this. Who wants whom more?
If you need their service, you will have to bend to their rules and policy.
But, if they need your business more, then they will have to improve or risk losing a customer.
If you need their service, you will have to bend to their rules and policy.
But, if they need your business more, then they will have to improve or risk losing a customer.
#113
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,370
Received 2,660 Likes
on
1,707 Posts
2020 S560 4Matic
According to a survey of Law Firm Economics by the National Law Journal and ALM Legal Intelligence, the hourly rate for attorneys in the United States is upward of $391
Average hourly rates by stateThe average hourly rate for attorneys varies dramatically from state to state. Statista research showed that West Virginia had the lowest average hourly rate in 2021, coming in at $163. Conversely, Washington D.C. had the highest hourly rate at $411.
WV dealerships don't charge $210 an hour for labor I'm sure. Dealerships have a LOT of overhead, especially luxury dealers. Something has to pay for the loaner cars, the extremely nice facilities, all the amenities, the baristas and golf simulators etc...you pay for it in the labor rate.
But, I know plumbers who make $500,000 a year. No joke, you can make a lot of money in a trade if you are good. When I was a kid I went to a private school in Bethesda...I had a friend who went to the same private school...guess what her father did for a living? He was a Mercedes master tech at this dealership...and he lived in the same affluent town and sent his daughter to the same private school my family did.
Last edited by SW20S; 03-04-2023 at 07:59 PM.
#114
Super Member
Join Date: Mar 2022
Location: South by Southwest
Posts: 502
Received 196 Likes
on
151 Posts
2021 AMG E63s Wagon
#115
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,370
Received 2,660 Likes
on
1,707 Posts
2020 S560 4Matic
$200K, $300K, and $400K isn't much when some of them are clocking 70-80 hours/week. My Ex who worked at the old DB Firm in DC, hated the hours. She never made Partner but now is enjoying a better Work/Life balance with a 9-5 Nonprofit 25-years later for what she used to make at the Firm.. She is a RN too with a Master's in Public Health from John Hopkins and was amazed that she had a side hustle in 2021/2022 out of boredom, administering the vaccine at $80/hour.
#116
MBWorld Fanatic!
Private practice is great, but working as or being a DA is a privilege that is under paid.
I’m not an attorney or DA, but the vast majority of attorneys out there are government. And they don’t make $400k a year.
I’m not an attorney or DA, but the vast majority of attorneys out there are government. And they don’t make $400k a year.
Last edited by Frenetic; 03-04-2023 at 09:22 PM.
#117
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,370
Received 2,660 Likes
on
1,707 Posts
2020 S560 4Matic
I’m not an attorney or DA, but the vast majority of attorneys out there are government. And they don’t make $400k a year.
But, according to the American Bar Association, 18% of attorneys work for the government, and 51% work for firms, and 16% are self employed..so thats not accurate.
Last edited by SW20S; 03-04-2023 at 09:29 PM.
The following 5 users liked this post by Bubba1:
bishop64 (03-05-2023),
martinlarose (03-04-2023),
MBNUT1 (03-04-2023),
places (03-05-2023),
QuadBenz (03-05-2023)
#120
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: unbegrenzt
Posts: 13,342
Received 3,931 Likes
on
3,095 Posts
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
A good attorney does not make less than an MB wrench turner. You miss the point that your view of attorney rates is, simply, out of touch.
Please re-read the speeding ticket example given a few posts ago.
#121
Out Of Control!!
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: unbegrenzt
Posts: 13,342
Received 3,931 Likes
on
3,095 Posts
2017 GLE350 4MATIC
Yes. People start complaining, understandably, when they experience the normal MB service experience, which is poor. A-Class loaner, or no loaner, for a W223 S-Class. Several days of no work on a dropped-off vehicle. And my favorite, no coffee or granola bars. These establishments (MB service emporia) are rubbish.
Last edited by chassis; 03-05-2023 at 01:35 AM.
#122
Super Member
SWS20, do you know the story why Euro has a mileage limit on the loaner? Apparently someone took a loaner and put several thousand miles on it. Their service can be great with the right service advisor. With the wrong one not so much. In 2008, my wife noticed her brand new E350 was pulling to one side. Her first SA just told her to adjust the tire pressure higher on one side. She complained and we were assigned a different SAnand they found the issue. Since then, we have had no issue with them.
#123
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Maryland
Posts: 5,370
Received 2,660 Likes
on
1,707 Posts
2020 S560 4Matic
Yeah and this has drifted off topic. Just unsubscribe from it...
That doesn't surprise me at all lol. I don't really have an issue with the mileage requirement, its the plastering it all over the place and the vehicle that is just...tacky and classless. Lexus had these restrictions too, but they only enforced them in situations where the loaners were really being abused.
Do you have a great service advisor there? Please PM me! I had a good one and he left and I'm out in the wind.
SWS20, do you know the story why Euro has a mileage limit on the loaner? Apparently someone took a loaner and put several thousand miles on it. Their service can be great with the right service advisor. With the wrong one not so much. In 2008, my wife noticed her brand new E350 was pulling to one side. Her first SA just told her to adjust the tire pressure higher on one side. She complained and we were assigned a different SAnand they found the issue. Since then, we have had no issue with them.
Do you have a great service advisor there? Please PM me! I had a good one and he left and I'm out in the wind.
#124
My dealer quietly gives me a good loaner when I show up in my c43. I got w 206 c300, E class, and the various trucks (GLS is HUGE). I once asked for an A class as I'd never driven one-they said straight out you don't need to do that you are at the AMG tier....after a day or so I realized that a Golf R if you want fast or an Accord Sport was a better FWD car. The seating position in the A class is...odd.
I returned the car, and told them they were right. Inability to shut off stop start was massively annoying in NYC traffic....this car would be a hard pass from me, star in the grille not withstanding. Finally, the fuel filler is on the WRONG side for a German car....
I returned the car, and told them they were right. Inability to shut off stop start was massively annoying in NYC traffic....this car would be a hard pass from me, star in the grille not withstanding. Finally, the fuel filler is on the WRONG side for a German car....
Last edited by speedlaw; 03-06-2023 at 08:46 PM.