W222 vs W223: And the winner is........
06-02-2023, 12:50 PM
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It’s funny: For 30 days, I drove a fairly bare-bones, 2023 GLE350 loaner—which, by the way, I was impressed with. The SUV did everything as it should have and did it well.
When I got the S580 back and first started it, I couldn’t imagine that it was running, it is so well insulated. I drove west on Jamboree Road towards the ocean and the car felt fantastic! I wondered if they may have done something to the EABC, since when the car died and it was towed to Fletcher Jones, I had yet again complained that I didn’t think the EABC was working properly. Jamboree Road in this area has been repaved fairly recently and the road is ribbon smooth. After a couple of miles, I turned onto another street and sure enough, as soon as the road was anything but absolutely perfect, the annoying ride smacked me in the face again.
The EABC does give the car great handling, as did MBC. I especially like using the “Curve” setting, but as we all know, handling is one thing and ride quality is quite different. MBC gave the cars a “Magic Carpet” feeling, connected but just SO amazingly dampened. With EABC, virtually every road imperfection is transmitted to the driver’s seat, and not just once. There is a feeling that each wheel encountering an imperfection, reacts multiple times to it, resulting in a bit of a “fluttering” or “nervous” feeling, which I find truly annoying. The ride quality of the two systems is day & night different and such a disappointment to me, since I well know how it COULD have been and SHOULD have been. The issue may be the way the EABC system has been calibrated by the engineers, it may be a poor design, but whatever the reason, to me it’s just not right and a $6,500.00 optional nightmare.
My apologies for yet another ride quality rant.
Yes, I am working on getting an AirMatic equipped S500 for at least an hour test drive, to see if I like the ride, but which way I go with a replacement vehicle, will have a lot to do with how MBUSA treats me with the buy-back. More on that later, stay tuned.
When I got the S580 back and first started it, I couldn’t imagine that it was running, it is so well insulated. I drove west on Jamboree Road towards the ocean and the car felt fantastic! I wondered if they may have done something to the EABC, since when the car died and it was towed to Fletcher Jones, I had yet again complained that I didn’t think the EABC was working properly. Jamboree Road in this area has been repaved fairly recently and the road is ribbon smooth. After a couple of miles, I turned onto another street and sure enough, as soon as the road was anything but absolutely perfect, the annoying ride smacked me in the face again.
The EABC does give the car great handling, as did MBC. I especially like using the “Curve” setting, but as we all know, handling is one thing and ride quality is quite different. MBC gave the cars a “Magic Carpet” feeling, connected but just SO amazingly dampened. With EABC, virtually every road imperfection is transmitted to the driver’s seat, and not just once. There is a feeling that each wheel encountering an imperfection, reacts multiple times to it, resulting in a bit of a “fluttering” or “nervous” feeling, which I find truly annoying. The ride quality of the two systems is day & night different and such a disappointment to me, since I well know how it COULD have been and SHOULD have been. The issue may be the way the EABC system has been calibrated by the engineers, it may be a poor design, but whatever the reason, to me it’s just not right and a $6,500.00 optional nightmare.
My apologies for yet another ride quality rant.
Yes, I am working on getting an AirMatic equipped S500 for at least an hour test drive, to see if I like the ride, but which way I go with a replacement vehicle, will have a lot to do with how MBUSA treats me with the buy-back. More on that later, stay tuned.
E-ABC first debuted with the GLE I think, and I think back in 2019 as a 2020 model year? Just like a lot of features in the W223 (um... the door handles too), like the 48V system I guess there is still a lot of room for improvement and for the engineers to patch it. I mean, it has "only" been 3 years since E-ABC came out compared to I believe MBC came out in 2007, so 16 years?
Edit: Seems like MBC might had came out in 2010 instead so it might had been 16-3= 13 years?
Last edited by W205C43PFL; 06-02-2023 at 12:54 PM. Reason: Typos and correction
06-02-2023, 01:09 PM
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Forgot when MBC first came out but I am pretty sure it was a long time ago, something like 2007 maybe and just like buying a car at the end of the generation life-cycle, MBC is a tried and true, reliable suspension system, when it comes to cars you all know that last model year of the generation has all (or most) the fixes implemented after countless years of beta testing on customers excuse me, I mean listening to customers' constructive feedback. As for why did MB fix it if it is not broken.... well that is a story for another time.
E-ABC first debuted with the GLE I think, and I think back in 2019 as a 2020 model year? Just like a lot of features in the W223 (um... the door handles too), like the 48V system I guess there is still a lot of room for improvement and for the engineers to patch it. I mean, it has "only" been 3 years since E-ABC came out compared to I believe MBC came out in 2007, so 16 years?
Edit: Seems like MBC might had came out in 2010 instead so it might had been 16-3= 13 years?
E-ABC first debuted with the GLE I think, and I think back in 2019 as a 2020 model year? Just like a lot of features in the W223 (um... the door handles too), like the 48V system I guess there is still a lot of room for improvement and for the engineers to patch it. I mean, it has "only" been 3 years since E-ABC came out compared to I believe MBC came out in 2007, so 16 years?
Edit: Seems like MBC might had came out in 2010 instead so it might had been 16-3= 13 years?
I would still wish that Streamliner tries to test drive another E-ABC S-Class as an ultimate test wether its the EABC in general or just his one that is not as good as the MBC.
Last edited by Wolfman; 06-02-2023 at 01:12 PM.
06-02-2023, 01:12 PM
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MBC arrived with the W222 in 2013 but the ABC suspension was 1998/99. The magic (M) component is the camera and software but the suspensions are the same, although a newer revision...
I would still wish that Streamliner tries to test drive another E-ABC S-Class as an ultimate test wether its the EABC in general or just his one.
I would still wish that Streamliner tries to test drive another E-ABC S-Class as an ultimate test wether its the EABC in general or just his one.
06-02-2023, 01:45 PM
#29
MBC arrived with the W222 in 2013 but the ABC suspension was 1998/99. The magic (M) component is the camera and software but the suspensions are the same, although a newer revision...
I would still wish that Streamliner tries to test drive another E-ABC S-Class as an ultimate test wether its the EABC in general or just his one that is not as good as the MBC.
I would still wish that Streamliner tries to test drive another E-ABC S-Class as an ultimate test wether its the EABC in general or just his one that is not as good as the MBC.
06-02-2023, 02:29 PM
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@Streamliner do you think your experience with MBC and taller sidewall 18" wheels vs E-ABC and 21" lower profile sidewalls played a part in your dislike for E-ABC? Sidewalls make a remarkable difference in comfort. I have a GLE with E-ABC and when I swap my summer 22s with my winter 20s--it's like night/day with comfort.
06-02-2023, 02:33 PM
#31
06-02-2023, 02:46 PM
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MBC arrived with the W222 in 2013 but the ABC suspension was 1998/99. The magic (M) component is the camera and software but the suspensions are the same, although a newer revision...
I would still wish that Streamliner tries to test drive another E-ABC S-Class as an ultimate test wether its the EABC in general or just his one that is not as good as the MBC.
I would still wish that Streamliner tries to test drive another E-ABC S-Class as an ultimate test wether its the EABC in general or just his one that is not as good as the MBC.
It’s difficult to simply test drive another EABC car & determine if it is different or better. I need to get the car to a road I know and it will have RFT & probably larger wheels, so it’s not an easy comparison. And, I believe the word is out on EABC and just finding one to drive is difficult.
06-02-2023, 04:06 PM
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Yes, my first S Class sedan was a 2013 that I ordered with ABC & 18” wheels. It had great ride quality, as does my 2019 SL450 that I ordered with ABC. The ABC & MBC suspensions are truly wonderful.
It’s difficult to simply test drive another EABC car & determine if it is different or better. I need to get the car to a road I know and it will have RFT & probably larger wheels, so it’s not an easy comparison. And, I believe the word is out on EABC and just finding one to drive is difficult.
It’s difficult to simply test drive another EABC car & determine if it is different or better. I need to get the car to a road I know and it will have RFT & probably larger wheels, so it’s not an easy comparison. And, I believe the word is out on EABC and just finding one to drive is difficult.
I see a couple at Fletcher Jones in Newport (Stock No: N172293 & N172365). At least one appears in stock. They are nearby and hopefully you are still on speaking terms with them
I think it's worth a try and hope the test roads are near enough.I am just curious; it's just difficult to imagine that the next generation suspension after MBC is inferior... very un-German
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aypues (06-02-2023)
06-02-2023, 04:11 PM
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I think it is not that difficult. If you drive a car with EABC and it has 21" wheels and the car drives remotely better than yours than you know that your car has suspension issues.
I see a couple at Fletcher Jones in Newport (Stock No: N172293 & N172365). At least one appears in stock. They are nearby and hopefully you are still on speaking terms with them I think it's worth a try and hope the test roads are near enough.
I am just curious; it's just difficult to imagine that the next generation suspension after MBC is inferior... very un-German
I see a couple at Fletcher Jones in Newport (Stock No: N172293 & N172365). At least one appears in stock. They are nearby and hopefully you are still on speaking terms with them
I think it's worth a try and hope the test roads are near enough.I am just curious; it's just difficult to imagine that the next generation suspension after MBC is inferior... very un-German
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aypues (06-02-2023)
06-02-2023, 04:57 PM
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I'm not sure that we need another "Let's bash the new S class" thread?
With that preface: I'm happy with my car and I'm not going to apologize for it. There are things I don't like about the way they tuned the shifting algorithms, the soft throttle response, etc. I'd also like at least a little more in the way of hard buttons. And those doors... You make something that big and heavy, open that far, and no constant stop? C'mon, that's a fail.
But I like the car. I like the center screen being a big squarish thing instead of the long thin screen n most cars; it's one of the few things I like about Tesla. My ride quality is great, but I'm on 19s and without the whiz-bang suspension. It's very quiet. The stereo kicks some serious buttocks.
I drive along in my little cocoon completely relaxed, outside world forgotten, not regretting a damn thing. The downsides don't really change that which is a bottom line I can get behind.
Beat me up all you want; I've got broad shoulders.
With that preface: I'm happy with my car and I'm not going to apologize for it. There are things I don't like about the way they tuned the shifting algorithms, the soft throttle response, etc. I'd also like at least a little more in the way of hard buttons. And those doors... You make something that big and heavy, open that far, and no constant stop? C'mon, that's a fail.
But I like the car. I like the center screen being a big squarish thing instead of the long thin screen n most cars; it's one of the few things I like about Tesla. My ride quality is great, but I'm on 19s and without the whiz-bang suspension. It's very quiet. The stereo kicks some serious buttocks.
I drive along in my little cocoon completely relaxed, outside world forgotten, not regretting a damn thing. The downsides don't really change that which is a bottom line I can get behind.
Beat me up all you want; I've got broad shoulders.
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06-02-2023, 05:12 PM
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I'm not sure that we need another "Let's bash the new S class" thread?
With that preface: I'm happy with my car and I'm not going to apologize for it. There are things I don't like about the way they tuned the shifting algorithms, the soft throttle response, etc. I'd also like at least a little more in the way of hard buttons. And those doors... You make something that big and heavy, open that far, and no constant stop? C'mon, that's a fail.
But I like the car. I like the center screen being a big squarish thing instead of the long thin screen n most cars; it's one of the few things I like about Tesla. My ride quality is great, but I'm on 19s and without the whiz-bang suspension. It's very quiet. The stereo kicks some serious buttocks.
I drive along in my little cocoon completely relaxed, outside world forgotten, not regretting a damn thing. The downsides don't really change that which is a bottom line I can get behind.
Beat me up all you want; I've got broad shoulders.
With that preface: I'm happy with my car and I'm not going to apologize for it. There are things I don't like about the way they tuned the shifting algorithms, the soft throttle response, etc. I'd also like at least a little more in the way of hard buttons. And those doors... You make something that big and heavy, open that far, and no constant stop? C'mon, that's a fail.
But I like the car. I like the center screen being a big squarish thing instead of the long thin screen n most cars; it's one of the few things I like about Tesla. My ride quality is great, but I'm on 19s and without the whiz-bang suspension. It's very quiet. The stereo kicks some serious buttocks.
I drive along in my little cocoon completely relaxed, outside world forgotten, not regretting a damn thing. The downsides don't really change that which is a bottom line I can get behind.
Beat me up all you want; I've got broad shoulders.
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js_cls (06-02-2023)
06-02-2023, 05:40 PM
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I'm not sure that we need another "Let's bash the new S class" thread?
With that preface: I'm happy with my car and I'm not going to apologize for it. There are things I don't like about the way they tuned the shifting algorithms, the soft throttle response, etc. I'd also like at least a little more in the way of hard buttons. And those doors... You make something that big and heavy, open that far, and no constant stop? C'mon, that's a fail.
But I like the car. I like the center screen being a big squarish thing instead of the long thin screen n most cars; it's one of the few things I like about Tesla. My ride quality is great, but I'm on 19s and without the whiz-bang suspension. It's very quiet. The stereo kicks some serious buttocks.
I drive along in my little cocoon completely relaxed, outside world forgotten, not regretting a damn thing. The downsides don't really change that which is a bottom line I can get behind.
Beat me up all you want; I've got broad shoulders.
With that preface: I'm happy with my car and I'm not going to apologize for it. There are things I don't like about the way they tuned the shifting algorithms, the soft throttle response, etc. I'd also like at least a little more in the way of hard buttons. And those doors... You make something that big and heavy, open that far, and no constant stop? C'mon, that's a fail.
But I like the car. I like the center screen being a big squarish thing instead of the long thin screen n most cars; it's one of the few things I like about Tesla. My ride quality is great, but I'm on 19s and without the whiz-bang suspension. It's very quiet. The stereo kicks some serious buttocks.
I drive along in my little cocoon completely relaxed, outside world forgotten, not regretting a damn thing. The downsides don't really change that which is a bottom line I can get behind.
Beat me up all you want; I've got broad shoulders.
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QuadBenz (06-03-2023)
06-02-2023, 06:03 PM
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Like me, Streamliner has an enormous number of years of MB history to make quality evaluations of their products. MB was created in late 1800s and it is now in over 125 years of existence. I feel that 50+ years of trial and error in our decisions on what is their great products and what is their inferior qualities has credence.
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Streamliner (06-02-2023)
06-02-2023, 06:09 PM
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Yes, my first S Class sedan was a 2013 that I ordered with ABC & 18” wheels. It had great ride quality, as does my 2019 SL450 that I ordered with ABC. The ABC & MBC suspensions are truly wonderful.
It’s difficult to simply test drive another EABC car & determine if it is different or better. I need to get the car to a road I know and it will have RFT & probably larger wheels, so it’s not an easy comparison. And, I believe the word is out on EABC and just finding one to drive is difficult.
It’s difficult to simply test drive another EABC car & determine if it is different or better. I need to get the car to a road I know and it will have RFT & probably larger wheels, so it’s not an easy comparison. And, I believe the word is out on EABC and just finding one to drive is difficult.
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Streamliner (06-02-2023)
06-02-2023, 06:14 PM
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Agreed. I'd take a W223 over our old W222 any day. But it's also important to recognize that MB has made significant design decisions to cater to changing demographics. Younger, more tech and less conservative. Not for everyone. Overall a good move but they will need to become more responsive on the software side. Quicker fixes, more remote updates.
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Streamliner (06-02-2023)
06-02-2023, 06:20 PM
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I'm not sure that we need another "Let's bash the new S class" thread?
With that preface: I'm happy with my car and I'm not going to apologize for it. There are things I don't like about the way they tuned the shifting algorithms, the soft throttle response, etc. I'd also like at least a little more in the way of hard buttons. And those doors... You make something that big and heavy, open that far, and no constant stop? C'mon, that's a fail.
But I like the car. I like the center screen being a big squarish thing instead of the long thin screen n most cars; it's one of the few things I like about Tesla. My ride quality is great, but I'm on 19s and without the whiz-bang suspension. It's very quiet. The stereo kicks some serious buttocks.
I drive along in my little cocoon completely relaxed, outside world forgotten, not regretting a damn thing. The downsides don't really change that which is a bottom line I can get behind.
Beat me up all you want; I've got broad shoulders.
With that preface: I'm happy with my car and I'm not going to apologize for it. There are things I don't like about the way they tuned the shifting algorithms, the soft throttle response, etc. I'd also like at least a little more in the way of hard buttons. And those doors... You make something that big and heavy, open that far, and no constant stop? C'mon, that's a fail.
But I like the car. I like the center screen being a big squarish thing instead of the long thin screen n most cars; it's one of the few things I like about Tesla. My ride quality is great, but I'm on 19s and without the whiz-bang suspension. It's very quiet. The stereo kicks some serious buttocks.
I drive along in my little cocoon completely relaxed, outside world forgotten, not regretting a damn thing. The downsides don't really change that which is a bottom line I can get behind.
Beat me up all you want; I've got broad shoulders.
06-02-2023, 07:23 PM
#42
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I'm not saying you should like it, or anyone else for that matter. I like it, like all of you I vote with my wallet.
I'm not exactly a young whippersnapper myself. To me, looking around at the people I know in the real world: When you stop moving forward; that's when you die. You're the meme telling people to get off your lawn; a dead man walking.
I like the new design in the interior; it looks modern and fresh while still retaining a classical and restrained aesthetic. That can't have been an easy balancing act. My wife loves the center screen because she feels it's inclusive; it allows her to play with the stereo, adjust her massage, change the lights, play with the map, everything, with the same ease I can.
That would have bothered me in other cars but in this one I've got the HUD and adjustable drivers display and I can keep what I want there while she fiddles around.
I was in at the dealer looking at an SL a few weeks ago and there was a 222 parked there, same color as mine. When sitting right next to each other I don't find either one to be greatly attractive, but I suppose they're both handsome enough, even if I'm not in love with either one. The only thing that stands out to me is one looks more modern than the other.
That looking back stuff; not for me, I'm going forward. Of course I may die when trying to navigate deep in an overly complex menu in my car, but... At least I won't be shaking my garden hose at passing adolescents and telling them how much better the world was yesterday.
I'm not exactly a young whippersnapper myself. To me, looking around at the people I know in the real world: When you stop moving forward; that's when you die. You're the meme telling people to get off your lawn; a dead man walking.
I like the new design in the interior; it looks modern and fresh while still retaining a classical and restrained aesthetic. That can't have been an easy balancing act. My wife loves the center screen because she feels it's inclusive; it allows her to play with the stereo, adjust her massage, change the lights, play with the map, everything, with the same ease I can.
That would have bothered me in other cars but in this one I've got the HUD and adjustable drivers display and I can keep what I want there while she fiddles around.
I was in at the dealer looking at an SL a few weeks ago and there was a 222 parked there, same color as mine. When sitting right next to each other I don't find either one to be greatly attractive, but I suppose they're both handsome enough, even if I'm not in love with either one. The only thing that stands out to me is one looks more modern than the other.
That looking back stuff; not for me, I'm going forward. Of course I may die when trying to navigate deep in an overly complex menu in my car, but... At least I won't be shaking my garden hose at passing adolescents and telling them how much better the world was yesterday.
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06-02-2023, 07:27 PM
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Like me, Streamliner has an enormous number of years of MB history to make quality evaluations of their products. MB was created in late 1800s and it is now in over 125 years of existence. I feel that 50+ years of trial and error in our decisions on what is their great products and what is their inferior qualities has credence.
06-02-2023, 11:42 PM
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06-02-2023, 11:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolfman;[url=tel:8789693
8789693[/url]]We all have lots of experience with MB. We certainly have had enough S-Class models to know that problems existed in the past and that the sky isn't falling and quality has not diminished. Each model has had their pros/cons. Also know that we are getting a whole lot more car for the money than we did 20+ years ago. Our W140 was over $200k adjusted for inflation and our SL600TT was more yet and still was a very simple car with some very flawed technology.
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06-03-2023, 02:08 AM
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Seriously, the issues plaguing the W223 are extremely minor compared what I have seen over the years.
The W222 has been truly one of the most reliable MB’s in the last decade; same as the R231 SL.
They also represent the end a line of mature older tech that has been replaced in later models.
There are clearly pains with 48V systems (across many brands) and more software issue. Not great but less of an issue than hardware failures.
Last edited by Wolfman; 06-03-2023 at 02:21 AM.
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06-03-2023, 08:43 AM
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I’m very biased as I really like my W223 and I’ve never driven in a W222. However, in my cursory, somewhat superficial comparison, I definitely prefer the technology in mine: the more the better. I think the looks are a tie. The W222 looks really good to me. I actually really like the looks of the W223. I don’t often see my car on the road but when I do it always catches my eye. If there’s one distinctive difference is that the W222 looks more slender and athletic.
I had one minor self-corrected build quality issue that caused a loose speaker but everything else has been great. The only drawbacks that I despise are the touch sensitive buttons and transmission. However, if the W222 has the same crappy can’t-shift-straight transmission then it’s a draw in that department. Does it?
I had one minor self-corrected build quality issue that caused a loose speaker but everything else has been great. The only drawbacks that I despise are the touch sensitive buttons and transmission. However, if the W222 has the same crappy can’t-shift-straight transmission then it’s a draw in that department. Does it?
06-03-2023, 09:40 AM
#48
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I must agree that the W222 was a better car. The overall tech and smoothness is superior in the W222. Apple Car Play was a big plus when it became available in the W222. The two best were my 2015 S65 and my 2016 S600. The V12 was super smooth and reliable. The only thing on the road it would not pass was a gas station. The 12 MPG was the only downside.
I also enjoyed the night vision on the W222.
I also enjoyed the night vision on the W222.
06-03-2023, 09:47 AM
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You mean all 5 of them?
Seriously, the issues plaguing the W223 are extremely minor compared what I have seen over the years.
The W222 has been truly one of the most reliable MB’s in the last decade; same as the R231 SL.
They also represent the end a line of mature older tech that has been replaced in later models.
There are clearly pains with 48V systems (across many brands) and more software issue. Not great but less of an issue than hardware failures.
Seriously, the issues plaguing the W223 are extremely minor compared what I have seen over the years.
The W222 has been truly one of the most reliable MB’s in the last decade; same as the R231 SL.
They also represent the end a line of mature older tech that has been replaced in later models.
There are clearly pains with 48V systems (across many brands) and more software issue. Not great but less of an issue than hardware failures.
Last edited by MBNUT1; 06-03-2023 at 09:50 AM.
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QuadBenz (06-03-2023)
06-03-2023, 09:52 AM
#50
MBWorld Fanatic!
Another gripe I forgot to mention is how MB packages options in the W223. It’s really stupid what they did with the rear-seat climate control and not offering a standard HUD is bewildering to me. Also, I prefer the more customizable gauges found in my GLE, but it’s not a big deal.
