They should have the AC run off the 48V like MB does. I don’t mind stop/start on mild hybrid cars, but one of the big reasons why I don’t mind it on MB’s is the AC is still cool, I probably would not stand it in an iDrive8 BMW, especially in Florida.

 

This is very true. A very common complaint by all those who live in cold climates is the AC performance.

 

Might never figure it out in Seattle. Lol

 

The S580s I test drove I found the ESS really made them feel much more sluggish off the line, so I would still want to disable it

 

BMW AC has always been anemic so that's not surprising. My 99 Miata has better AC than most of the BMW's I've owned.

 

Not really. My 2020 BMW X7 M50i had an AC that’s way much better than most vehicles I owned. However, 2020 was just 1 year before the introduced the 48V on the X7 and the other lineup. Every BMW I drove or had with 48V starting 2021 and after performed really bad during hot summer days. The best AV on any car I owned is the one on the W222….. Only issue is that the AC on the W222 is too loud during the first 5 min when on Auto mode.

 

Which is funny because if it wasn't for the impact on climate I would pick a W222 over a Tesla MS all day and everyday. The W222's are just stunningly elegant cars. The Tesla MS not so much. When they first came out I thought that they were exceptionally great looking but more recent iterations seem to have lost that initial appeal.

 

Fair, to each his own. I don’t think anyone would argue that W222 is better than 99% of EVs on the market (in some aspects). However, I change my cars as if it’s a pair of shoes. Once I feel bored with it, I look for the next; Life is too short, and for the right numbers why not. I don’t even look behind when any car is gone, and my W222 is a thing of the past and I still would take the Model S (in the present) 10 out of 10 times over the W222; technology, acceleration, driving experience, self driving, etc. It does not mean that one is better than the other, as I said, W222 is better overall but NOT in every way or for all people. I think it’d be foolish of me if I picked up the MS over W222 only for environmental fishy reasons. I picked it up for a number of other reasons that makes any EV superior over an ICE vehicle for my specific and present use.

Like I said, I’d still take a fully electrified W223 if it’s available. But, in the meantime, there is not a single ICE car or EV car that has everything I want. I would not take a fully electrified W222 now but I don’t see myself switching back to an older tech now, but the W223 or i7 are pretty close to the tech standard of some EVs. Just the idea of not needing a physical key is a relief, self driving is another aspect. Waiting for carplay to boot up is something of the past in most cars in the present, and some cars like BMW or Tesla would even let you forget about carplay forever. Hence, no matter what, I am as happy with either direction as I get to experience X% of things I want either as I own an ICE or EV car….. Until somehow there is an EV that has all I want, than I’d call it the ultimate car. Right now there is no ultimate car for what I want, but I came to realize that the driving style and tech of an EV is a priority over anything else. As for the appeal, this is purely subjective. Where I live there aren’t many W222s or Model S cars, but I can tell u with 100% confidence, that a Model S seems to turn way more heads than my W222, like literally, way more. So, the appeal is subjective, but from experience, u seem to be of a small group of people who prefers the appeal/appearance of one over the other. W222 interior though is something out of this world.

 

I prefer the 222 to the Model S in every way, but I see the appeal of the Model S. Its a very different car. I think they are beautiful too.

 

I for sure had not high expectations that a Model S 80-100K EV would be better in every way than my W222 with 150K MSRP; of course it is not nor that I expected to be before I switched. Even though MSRP isn’t everything but it’s also an indication to some level. Even the EQS would still be better than any Tesla. But for someone who trade in his cars that quick, the appeal and experience of trying something new can be a priority. At least, now I know that if I ever decide to get another S-class, I would never be an ICE variant even if I have to drive a Kia/Hyundai EV… EVs are just that good for me. The M760 BMW is the only ICE car I’d ever consider going forward over any EV.

 

I liked the looks when it came out but it's tired, IMO it's time to to move into a gen 2 shape.

 

There won’t be any gen2 (at least not short term). They just updated headlights and taillights and made the body wider with a major interior refresh by end of 2021. It will take forever now for another change and even then it will be minor. Just like the new Model 3 revealed a few days ago, it’s only headlights and minor panel touched. I think the design is received very well by the majority so I doubt they’ll ever change that strategy. Elon makes stupid decisions sometimes, but this one isn’t one of them because it’s working.

 

Tesla has said there will never be a total model redesign of any of their vehicles

 

And all of the Tesla models look so much alike. It seems that there are swarms of them everywhere, especially white ones.

 

I wouldn't say one necessarily leads to the other, they're doing something right, that much can be said. While owners have cited the charging network, greater product maturity, and other factors, I don't recall seeing the exterior styling at the top of any recent lists. This gibes with the real world owners I know and there's a few of them.

Tesla has a couple other things going for it; they got there first, and cool-aid drinkers. Nothing to be said about the former. The cool-aid drinkers are thesame as you find over in the Apple camp; there are many iPhone owners that own it simply because it's an iPhone rather than any objective metrics that led them that way. Dont get me wrong about either product, I'd consider them if a few things were different.

In any event refreshing a car model is a well proven method of generating sales and well liked as long as the pace isn't so quick as to alienate buyers.

You can do both when you think about it, consider examples like the 911 which has iterated only slightly one refresh to the next but enough each time to look like the new shiny. The Tesla styling used to be modern and attractive to me but it looks old now and is a strong detractor. I like my new shiny to look like the new shiny and I'm not the only one.

 

Obviously agree on the model S but I would say that the front end of the new model 3 is a substantial improvement over the prior. At least it doesn't still look like some frog.

 

I don’t really follow anything about Tesla, but I believe the first Model S came out around 2012. What is the current news on these older models needing new batteries? How much does it cost? Disposal fees on the old ones, etc.? Just curious.

 

Get the S580E! It is the ultimate car for everyday driving. I used to have a Model S Plaid. At first I was enamored, but after owning it a year things started rattling/creaking and unfortunately the car started giving off a burning smell. The brakes were horrendous. It really needs to have CCB stock. Also had to have my steering wheel replaced despite the utmost care. You could tell that it was put together piece meal. It was not worth the price so luckily I sold it at a time where I got most of my money back. Then I bought a Model Y, which was missing some creature comforts from the S, but damn was it a solid put together car. Truly excellent built quality/tolerances. However it was lacking the luxury I was wanting. So thankfully I got and allocating for an S580E…which is the most comfortable, quiet and versatile car I have ever owned. I can use Gas when I want, Electric when I want, both if I want…and it doesn’t matter. Extremely quiet, very comfortable. Only one little area that made a faint creak sound under extremely hard braking near the mirror housing. 6500 miles and that’s the only issue with the car’s build. The one negative is the car is supremely heavy so it’s like a locomotive with a tight turning radius. It is not a sports car. It is an every day car that’s fairly powerful. Do I miss the insane Model S Plaid acceleration? Actually no. I just stopped giving a S#!t about who is driving aggressively past me. All I know is they have no clue as to how soothing and wonderful my ride home from work is. When I need to pump up the adrenaline, my 911 on mountain roads takes care of that. The EQS is not that amazing, I’d pick the Model S Plaid (the way it’s priced now), but it I only chose one car that could “do it all”, buy the S580E, and you’ll be incredibly happy.

 

Agree, an improvement for sure; the reviews give me the impression the 3 gained in a number of areas, NVH, quality is said to be up, improved ride.

 

The “Plaid” and all vehicles with similar acceleration potential should be legislated out of existence for anything other than track use. Vehicles like that have no legitimate purpose being street legal and are a menace to society, in my humble opinion.

 

I drove the S580e, it’s very impressive, but the 6 cyl engine is a little coarse when it’s reviving out, and the EV only power is adequate but the car never feels effortless. That’s the feel I want, and I get that with the V8 and with a full EV but not the 580e.

Bear in mind too the Model S is now MUCH cheaper. I think the pricing finally made sense. The power is insane (and I didn’t drive the Plaid) in a good way lol

 

That reminds me of how I felt about my 530e (BMW 5-series PHEV) when I had it. It was great to drive around on full EV mode, great that you can switch to gas, but in both cases it always felt too heavy dragging itself around. Almost every PHEV car has an under-sized EV drive-train coupled to an under-sized gas engine. I seriously considered the PHEV W223, but that exact problem is why I didn’t go that route. If some of you recall, before I got my W222, I posted a lot of threads asking about the W222 PHEV. The test drove experience didn’t go well for the W222 either, and I was hopping the W223 PEHV would be better but I don’t believe any PHEV would get there. There isn’t any car on the market now that has the best of both words in one car yet. BMW i7 is pretty damn close but the range of i7 and the cosmetic aspects took off my list. If range isn’t a problem, and if someone doesn’t mind the appearance, it’s an awesome car.

 

Good points. I can assure you there is enough system power to blast past on overtaking etc. I have hit unintentionally hit triple digits without trying. Drives nothing like the W222 PHEV. That was not ready for prime time for many reasons. The BMW 530e is the same thing (not fully ready). I know nothing about the new BMW phevs.



The PHEV W223 is very useable and a totally different animal. It is very heavy so I’m not drifting the car haha. It just NOT a sports car and I’m ok with that mentally. The Plaid had torque vectoring so that handled very well. I could smoke ANY car on the road. It was so powerful that under full stomp I almost passed out when I first got the car. You have to hold your breath like doing a quick maneuver in an airplane. The horizon comes so fast. The electric motors on that car are a technological marvel. Yes, that car should not be allowed to be driven by morons. I’m afraid when that car becomes “affordable” by 16 year olds. I would never let my kid drive that. I am experienced on the race track. That’s where the Plaid belongs (but with CCBs). Build quality is lacking. Just walk up to any 2021/2022 plaid and look at the gap on the right side that spans the entire length of the car. Hopefully they fixed that. The price is definitely better than when I first got it. A Mercedes it is not so as cool as the Plaid was, not getting another till it’s perfected.



The S580e engine IS coarse when it first fires up (actually all PHEV are that way, you should hear the AMG One race car) but let it warm up a little and that goes away. A test drive does not do the car justice. My ritual is to run the car in EL mode for most driving, but on the highway I switch to Battery Hold mode. The big difference with the V8 is that car is lighter and there is a little bit more immediacy with acceleration. For a daily driver that is not necessary. If the AMG E hybrid had more electric range, I would get that (because I like V8s). But 12 mile electric range is not useable. I get about 60 miles on my car.



One thing I forgot to mention, when you are waiting to pick up your wife/kids from the mall/school, having electric mode is fantastic in hot weather. No engine needed.



Anyway, hope that helps. If any problems occur, I will share those. So far it’s a keeper. No range anxiety either for longer trips like I had with the Plaid. Nice not to plan supercharger time.

 

Yes areas where the current car is sorely lacking. I actually will consider the new one if it meets my NVH requirements.

 

I never test drove the 3 but I've been in it a number of times taking Ubers. Lots of road noise, didn't think the ride was terrible, didn't pay attention to the quality. I'm thinking my entry into the EV market will either be luxury or a grocery getter. I agree with SW on the 580 being a car I would buy as an EV, if I was going grocery I'd look at an SUV/CUV.