Bubba1

Over the last 40 years I have purchased 27 cars. The vast majority of which were purchased brand new from dealerships. That’s 1.5 cars per year. I would say it’s 50/50 as to the positive experiences I’ve had verses negative experiences with the buying process.

However, the arrogance of the dealership community hit an all time high during the pandemic. They thought they were the bees knees and could rip you off without shame.

The quality and knowledge of the sales people went down dramatically, not that it was even good prior to the pandemic!

I am an admirer of the Tesla model of buying online. I hate dealing with salespeople as for the most part they are shallow, uneducated, lack any pedigree or culture and are there to just make a quick buck (with of course some exceptions).

I’ve also been reading and was told by a salesman (who is now retired) at a high end dealership that some of the training is a form of “tough love” with clients looking for high end cars. They will literally ignore your requests and then respond erratically, then ignore etc etc, psychologically playing on any insecurities. What I mean by this is as a customer you will eventually say is they hope “Let me show you that I have the resources to buy this car” and then you buy it. Many of us here won’t fall for this stupidity but I have noticed this form of tough love.

My question to all of you is that the car market, especially the high end has fallen of a cliff. With interest rates higher than they’ve been in many years and most cars being leased, there is now a new reality. Also most supply chain issues have been fixed. Have dealerships toned down their rhetoric and arrogance to adjust? Or is it the same old same old??

S_W222

I don't feel that there is one answer to that. I always feel that it varies from one dealership to another. Some have been treating their clients really good for decades, some are known to be really bad on the customer support side. I have not dealt with more than 4 Mbenz dealerships, but I dealt with over 8 BMW dealerships over the years and I certainly felt the difference in the before/after sale support. I currently take all my BMWs to a dealership that is a few hours away from me and strategically avoid the dealer that is just 15 min away from me (when I can), for the annual service. When trading or buying, I always drive a few hours rather than seeing the one in my town. There is nothing that compares to the simplicity of ordering a car from Tesla, but that's simply because they don't allow a dealership to act as the middle man between them and the corporate.

SW20S

Some have, and some haven't. I just bought a new Pacifica for my wife in October, and despite having tons of inventory I found many dealers just uninterested in deal making at all. The end result was the most painful 5 hour negotiation I have ever gone through for a car, where I was bait and switched at least 5 times...but I walked out with the deal I wanted.

I am now shopping for a replacement for my S560 and I have found again some dealers are willing to work with me and some just don't even call me back.

Bubba1

Sorry to hear. Doesn’t surprise me though. I hate having to go through the BS negotiations. “I have to speak to my manager, can I get you a stale cup of coffee?” Seriously in this day and age?

One guy shook my hand and he was wearing so much cheap cologne it took me several hand washings and several hours to get rid of the smell of my hands. YUCK!! This was at a high end dealership!The sales process with cars is really antiquated.

Years ago we were looking to replace our SUV with possibly a Tesla model X. We didn’t proceed. But I booked an overnight test drive online. They dropped the car off at my house. Young man asked if I had any questions. A 10 minute quick orientation on the car. They picked it up the next day from my driveway and emailed me to contact them if I had any more questions etc. Absolutely painless.

The automotive industry seriously needs to grow up!!

crabman

I go to the dealership to test drive and that's it, once I know what I want it's strictly email until I have a deal.

Bubba1

You’ve identified the problem Crab. One way or the other, whether in person, or by email you have to negotiate. Depending on who you’re dealing with I think email can be even more frustrating as to which tricks and delay tactics the dealership is using in communicating with you.

My hope is that dealerships become strictly showrooms with service area attached. Prices are transparent and set by market forces (like Tesla). You set up a test drive either via picking up the car or they dropping off. Option lists are easy to understand, transparent pricing. You buy the car its delivered to your house. If you really want a tutorial on delivery you can ask for one.

I’m really fed up of dealing with these snake oil salesman with their BS trickery. If I never saw a car salesman again (or as a close friend of mine calls them “Fing Mutts”, not my expression…his), It would be too soon.

SW20S

Thats what I did this time and when I got there (an hour away) the deal we had in writing evaporated. Even the finance guy was frustrated, they would come back and agree to the deal and he would run the numbers and the numbers weren’t the deal, finally the guy came in after 4 times of this and said “we need to look at a lower trim” and I told him to send the manager in and that I didn’t want to see or talk to him again. 4 minutes with the manager and the deal was done. I mean, I had the damn thing in writing.

I also find it funny in situations like these I mysteriously never get sent the manufacturer survey.

Bubba1

OMG what an ordeal SW20!

I had a similar experience. We bought my wife’s SUV several years ago. Had a signed deal. Night before delivery Regional Manager of dealership phoned me and says they can’t honour the deal because the GM who signed it is no longer there and the new deal is 5k more.

I told him we will there at the predetermined time. Car better be ready and we are not paying 1cent more. My wife, children and I showed up. Our salesman was nowhere to be found. Long story short it took 4 hours for them to get us the car. I’m not a lawyer but had to threaten legal action and had my lawyer email them.

Honestly, ruined the delivery experience on a brand new expensive vehicle. What an ordeal!!

SW20S

It was terrible. At the end the finance guy goes "Good for you." lol

Terrible! Sounds very similar.

crabman

Yep, skip the salesmen and go straight to the internet manager, most dealerships have them now. I also never give them a phone number, that will just enable calls and messages I don't want.

I've only had one issue when I went to pick up a truck; a 995 dollar fee they tacked on for some BS. I refused to pay it, they told me they put it on every car and in turn refused to remove it. I asked for a ride back to the airport and a kid was supposed to come get me in a few minutes, but it didn't get that far: An older gent came into the waiting area and said the fee would be dropped and could take delivery; he had just wanted to see if I would really go.

When I hopped in to drive away the guy that had been doing the sale told me it was a one time deal and I would have to pay it next time. I was thinking; next time?

That was the 3rd truck I had bought from Dave Smith, also the last. What was strange to me was they had been so good to work with before, I was a repeat customer who had also purchased some of my Corvette's over there. They were giving me great deals, I was buying a car or truck every year. I mean, why try and nick me for a few bucks when I've been bringing regular business?

SW20S

Haha, yeah "next time"?!

I always do the same thing but I have found since the crazy market most dealer internet people just never respond unless I include a phone number

ColeBlooded

My last purchase (BMW) was extremely easy. The dealer was straight forward with the discount through text. They emailed the docs, and I picked it up the next day. My S-Class purchase was the same way.

Crito

It's not a complete bed of roses with Tesla either. They gave me a preliminary estimate for my trade-in, for example, but you don't get a final offer until AFTER you place an order for a car, which requires a $250 non-refundable "deposit" (ordering fee actually). So they can lowball you afterwards and if the deal falls through they get paid $250 anyways.

Munich77

I bet they would do it with a CPO. I hope you will like it as much as I do. No regrets.

Streamliner

Having my last NINE new cars being MB’s, I felt a bit apprehensive about trying to make a deal on a new BMW, especially a special order. I will send a shout out to member CSLA who introduced me to two dealerships and gave me sound advice on who to talk to and which dealers I should avoid. I probably left a few dollars on the table, but I wanted to work with a dealer relatively close to my home and I feel very good about the deal I was able to get.

ygmn

Sorry to the OP and no disrespect but, the engineer math nerd noticed a slight error in our math.

27 cars in 40 years = 27 / 40 = 0.68 cars per year
or 1.5 years per car.
pfewwww I feel better.


Back on topic
I bought my car online and over phone from dealer in California while I lived 1000+ miles away.
no haggle or hassle at all. This was before Pandemic.

one day Wal-Mart and Amazon will sell cars like they do t-shirts or batteries. - One Click.
delivered in 2 days by UPS's new car deliveyr service.

Streamliner

Yeah, at the height of the virus fiasco, I bought my 2022 S580. The car was about 100 miles away, so I did everything online and the car was delivered to me on a flatbed. It was the very first car I had bought without first driving it. Huge mistake and one I will never make again.

SW20S

They delivered our 2020 Pacifica and took our 2017 Pacifica during COVID, delivered it right to the door and I signed all the paperwork on the trash can in my garage. Amazing experience...no finance office, no games, no upselling. Just email to negotiate the deal and over they came.

Wolfman

I remember you helping me with our AMG GTC roadster, making a remote purchase of a pricey car easy. Nothing better than local presence, but I knew how these cars drive before, so we had no surprises...

Streamliner

Always happy to assist.

Lanzz

I deal with one person at my local MB dealer. Have bought 3 cars from him in the past 5 years. Made the last 2 deals over text and pickup took 30 mins each. He does his own finance so there is no handoff when you go to finish the deal. Magic. Have tried other dealers and nothing compares.

S_W222

Nice, and I agree. In fact, when I picked up our Tesla last year, I didn't even interact with anyone. I notified the team that I was on my way to pick up my new car around the exact appointment time specified in the app. The car was prepped and parked outside. My phone app was already synced with the car as part of the purchase process, and all documents were electronically signed via the app. When I arrived at the lot, I approached the car, and the app/phone recognized and synced with it. I clicked "confirm pick up," the doors opened, and I could leave just like that. I couldn't believe it that I felt the need to talk to someone inside even though it wasn't necessary. The optional key cards were already inside the car, and there was no physical paperwork to take with me either.

This is the same experience when I drop off the car for service and pick up the loaner, or the opposite. When service is done, I arrive, drop off the loaner anywhere, it auto-locks as I leave, and five minutes later, it disappears from my phone app, and I lose access to it. I can go straight to my car where it's parked, click "confirm pick up," and leave. I don't need to see service or go inside as the paperwork is already sent via the app and whether it's warranty work or payment needed it's all via the app too.

Our Lincoln Navigator was the black label trim which receives special service treatment and they would come pick it up from my garage all the time if it needs anything, communication via the app was fine, but they'd still call your cell instead of messages or the app and ask for payment via phone. BMW are the worst to deal with. They would not even acknowledge loaner requests for an appointment I scheduled via the App cause they say (the app is not synced well with our system for loaners availability!!!! what????). Mbenz for us was almost mostly via phone only... old style phone calls... Can't even do messages. I understand if there are certain dealers that do better as far as communication and pick up and drop off experience, but what am looking for is a true high standards from the original manufacturer applies everywhere, and that does not exist yet. There are many things Tesla could learn from other manufacturers, but the things that other brands are yet to learn from Tesla are far more significant (at least the things that matter to me) in terms of tech, communication, and ownership experience. Despite all of that, I don't see my garage ever being without a BMW or Mercedes-Benz as a luxury car, but at the same time, I've learned to appreciate Tesla just as much as a daily driver.

Options are nice, but I still don't see a single manufacturer that makes "the ultimate" car yet and that's sad. Cars were much more similar and equal in the 2005-2020 era, and there were many cars I'd refer to as the ultimate choice. Our Lexus LS 430, the 2000-2006 model years, for instance was one of my ultimate cars in my view at that time with "dynamic/adaptive" cruise control, cooled/heated seats and even vibration/massage, air suspension, great sound system at the time, executive style rear seats, navigation touch screen, truly outstanding drive and comfort, excellent Xenon headlights, unmatched quality (the car just doesn't breakdown), etc. Great dealership experience. However, nowadays, I feel that several manufacturers have decided to excel in one key area but not all areas together as in the past. Works fine for those who can own several cars, but not a good situation for those with one or two cars, or maybe space for one or two only, but want the best experience in all categories. Even if I have the space and ability to own several cars, I'd rather have one car or daily that (has it all): luxury, technology, comfort, driving experience, car ownership and dealership experience, maybe self-driving or drive-assist if you care. This car doesn't exist now, so one has to prioritize what he wants the most and scarify a bit. I understand though that not many people care about that (has it all) concept, but these used to be a reasonable find in the past, not today for some reason. German manufacturers in particular were almost always really close, especially with the S and 7-series, but they are slightly behind technology and maybe quality wise nowadays in my view.

SW20S

And Lexus service is nothing like it used to be either.

S_W222

It's been 5 years since my last Lexus, but even then, I agree that they've become nothing but another Toyota dealership. In fact in most areas they even share the same building and same service departments with two logos (Lexis and Toyota) tucked in the parking lot!
Luckily I never needed service for any of my Lexus cars beside oil change. 15 years of Lexus ownership in total, spanning 3 different cars and ~500K miles combined, and the oil pan gasket was the only non-regular-maintenance item I ever needed. I stopped thinking about Lexus the minute other brands start to innovate with much better software and cabin technology, while Lexus decided to adopt their navigation and screen technology from Toyota matching the Corolla and Camry's of the world. The 360 camera that keeps spinning alone was a joke (heard it's still the same in 2024). Sometimes reliability isn't just enough.

tx170754

It's still absolutely amazing, at least the one I'm servicing my LS's !