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Clunking like that typically occurs if the transmission hasn't adapted properly. Something went wrong during the initial adaptation cycle. Some of the models have known issues with the adaptation. For example in the W206 C43, the transmission skips a few steps during the initial adaptation if its driven in a particular manner during the break-in period. AMG is supposedly working on a software fix, but the issue has come to the surface during the unveiling of the car and it's still not fixed. Mercedes does seem to have a problem with releasing cars before they are fully baked. Could be a similar issue with the W223.
I do agree that the throttle in Comfort is way too soft. However, it's been a trend that the default mode in modern cars has become a de-facto Eco mode to meet the ever more stringent fuel economy requirements. Many ICE models are increasingly becoming undriveable in the default mode as they are being totally castrated in the name of fuel efficiency. I pretty much can't stand most normal cars anymore these days. All the loaners I spoke off I have to drive in at least Sport mode, otherwise they are frustrating as hell. That's the new normal unfortunately and the main reason I drive an AMG so I don't have to deal with this BS. The alternative is electric. The EQS for all its flaws has at least a proper throttle response.
Everyone says that and I'm not buying in; the chauffeur thing is way oversold. The throttle is so stupidly soft you're frequently hung out to dry, and that isn't right on any car, at any time, ever. Nor do all cars shift with a bang in that situation, I've never had one that did before, and I've owned many cars.
To be clear; I'm using words like bang and clunk for a reason, it's an actual mechanical slam, clunk, whang, bang, smack, etc. I'm not talking about an abrupt shift, a hard shift, a shift that want all that graceful. I'm talking about a real clunk: Two things hitting each other.
That's not normal.
I went through this with a new 16 S550 coupe which led me to getting a 17 that featured the new 9G, and for the short time I owned it, no clunks/bangs. It did however have an annoying vibration in the driveline at idle felt in the seat and s-wheel.
Everyone says that and I'm not buying in; the chauffeur thing is way oversold. The throttle is so stupidly soft you're frequently hung out to dry, and that isn't right on any car, at any time, ever. Nor do all cars shift with a bang in that situation, I've never had one that did before, and I've owned many cars.
To be clear; I'm using words like bang and clunk for a reason, it's an actual mechanical slam, clunk, whang, bang, smack, etc. I'm not talking about an abrupt shift, a hard shift, a shift that want all that graceful. I'm talking about a real clunk: Two things hitting each other.
That's not normal.
The soft pedal can be mostly mitigated by not having the oil pump solenoid connected for older MBs, I don't think anyone experimented with that mod on a W223 yet though.
Clunking like that typically occurs if the transmission hasn't adapted properly. Something went wrong during the initial adaptation cycle. Some of the models have known issues with the adaptation. For example in the W206 C43, the transmission skips a few steps during the initial adaptation if its driven in a particular manner during the break-in period. AMG is supposedly working on a software fix, but the issue has come to the surface during the unveiling of the car and it's still not fixed. Mercedes does seem to have a problem with releasing cars before they are fully baked. Could be a similar issue with the W223.
I do agree that the throttle in Comfort is way too soft. However, it's been a trend that the default mode in modern cars has become a de-facto Eco mode to meet the ever more stringent fuel economy requirements. Many ICE models are increasingly becoming undriveable in the default mode as they are being totally castrated in the name of fuel efficiency. I pretty much can't stand most normal cars anymore these days. All the loaners I spoke off I have to drive in at least Sport mode, otherwise they are frustrating as hell. That's the new normal unfortunately and the main reason I drive an AMG so I don't have to deal with this BS. The alternative is electric. The EQS for all its flaws has at least a proper throttle response.
Yup, regulations is the reason why this happens and for some reason I find it extremely prominent on MBs though, the EPA effect.
Yeah, I'm aware of the general trend toward throttle tuning for economy. The S580 doesn't however have a soft throttle, it has a throttle that is WAY to soft to drive smoothly when combined with the set TQ lockup and poor shifting algorithms. I had the S580 for 18 months, that's an unusually long ownership for me. When I said I go through a lot of cars, I wasn't kidding, and I'm well acquainted with what is on offer elsewhere.
It is the only car I've owned where the throttle tuning was so soft the car was less responsive to throttle than my boat. It weighs 50 tons and has better throttle response. I put it into gear, it moves. In the S580 you push the pedal, nothing happens. Push it more, still nothing. More, barely rolling. More, WHAM (metal hitting metal). Now your moving. That isn't the EPAs fault, and it doesn't happen in any other car to my knowledge. Porsche for example is famous for having a soft throttle on what is their normal mode, but is really economy. It doesn't do that. Ever. Not with the PDK or the step. Yeah, it's irritating, but it's not an impediment to safely negotiating an intersection.
That last matters. In this locale, traffic is heavy, people are driving aggressively, and when it's your turn at a 4 way or any similar situation, you need to go without delay. With the S580 you're facing road rage around here, and I mean that literally, there were several times the car made people visibly angry.
One thing for sure; if I come back to the S Class, it will be in the 63, I'm not up for another round of ownership with a car that doesn't respond to pedal in some kind of realistic and reasonable fashion.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Several brand new models that debuted for MY21 & later, have obviously not been thoroughly tested and properly sorted prior to release. Many who are a bit more “enthusiast” types know it is a much better idea to wait for the second model year, before pulling the trigger. That USED to be the case with MB, but post the Covid fiasco, it seems that MB isn’t showing any pressing concern for many issues and is allowing them to continue from one model year to another, which to my way of thinking is the absolute kiss of death to even diehard, very loyal customers such as myself. I waited out MY21 to get my 2022 S580 and the car was nothing but trouble from day one.
The fiasco with the dead battery issues on the very expensive R232 SL’s is just unbelievable. For YEARS now, the factory authorized—but UNWRITTEN “fix” has been to physically lock the car with the key fob—even when the car is in your own, private garage—and THEN you must either keep the key fob over 30 feet away from the car or put it in a faraday pouch. It says NOTHING about this in the owner’s manuals, AND, these are AMG cars that sell in the $150K to over $250K range. Yet, to my amazement, many folks are willing to pay the big bucks and jump through the ridiculous hoops MB says they must jump through, to keep the cars. If customers continue to behave this way, MB will continue to ignore quality issues, but it can’t go on forever without severe consequences. You guys know what I’m doing about it.
Yeah, I'm aware of the general trend toward throttle tuning for economy. The S580 doesn't however have a soft throttle, it has a throttle that is WAY to soft to drive smoothly when combined with the set TQ lockup and poor shifting algorithms. I had the S580 for 18 months, that's an unusually long ownership for me. When I said I go through a lot of cars, I wasn't kidding, and I'm well acquainted with what is on offer elsewhere.
It is the only car I've owned where the throttle tuning was so soft the car was less responsive to throttle than my boat. It weighs 50 tons and has better throttle response. I put it into gear, it moves. In the S580 you push the pedal, nothing happens. Push it more, still nothing. More, barely rolling. More, WHAM (metal hitting metal). Now your moving. That isn't the EPAs fault, and it doesn't happen in any other car to my knowledge. Porsche for example is famous for having a soft throttle on what is their normal mode, but is really economy. It doesn't do that. Ever. Not with the PDK or the step. Yeah, it's irritating, but it's not an impediment to safely negotiating an intersection.
That last matters. In this locale, traffic is heavy, people are driving aggressively, and when it's your turn at a 4 way or any similar situation, you need to go without delay. With the S580 you're facing road rage around here, and I mean that literally, there were several times the car made people visibly angry.
One thing for sure; if I come back to the S Class, it will be in the 63, I'm not up for another round of ownership with a car that doesn't respond to pedal in some kind of realistic and reasonable fashion.
THIS!!
I can see that those who had driven or daily-drove mostly only an S-class for the past decade could disagree or fail to get that feeling of what you described. But I completely agree about the soft throttle and it's completely annoying. I had two W222 vehicles, and I had them both while I had at least 2-3 other BMWs at the same time, so it was so easy to recognize the soft-throttle relatively speaking. The S-class had a good engine, mostly as good as other cars, but that felt lazy. Not that I hated it that way, but it's annoying when the car is owned with other cars that responds better.
I would say though that the W222 pre-facelift was much better in that sense and felt more responsive. Then my W222 facelift soft-throttle was way more apparent. The W223 test-drives prove to me that this is still an issue (along with the same weird transmission behavior that I always hated in the benz). The laziness and soft-throttle reminds me of one of my Lexus LS back in the days, but the LS felt like it belongs to that style of driving unlike the S-class. I can switch the S to sports, but that's not how it should be. I'd rather have something like (Comfort - Soft - Sport) then with comfort being really comfort not lazy/soft driving style. I wouldn't expect it to drive like a BMW on comfort mode, but at least it should be reasonably responsive which is not the case here. It was decent for the pre-facelift W222!
Agree. It doesn't just affect the cars' ability to cross an intersection; frankly, I'd like to be able to feel my ponies. It's an S-Class, it isn't like I had unseemly hooliganism in mind, but I do think the sense of power is far too muted. I want to feel like I'm in command of 500 horses, am reigning them, always knowing they're at my beck and call.
I don't know what it was before but however that may be, they've gone too far now, to the detriment of the cars' driveability. And I include chauffeuring in that, it's fine to have a muted pedal to aid in smooth accelerations, but they're past that and into being so unreactive as to make it more difficult. As an example, I'm driving an X5M right now, the throttle is aggressive and immediate, but it's much easier to make a smooth start and stop with because something predictable happens when I push the pedal. I push a little, it goes a little. I push a lot, it goes a lot.
The whole point of pushing the throttle is to make the car move, otherwise you wouldn't have pushed the throttle. When your operational paradigm is that nothing happens when you push the throttle, and you push it more and nothing still happens, you've lost your way.
Yeah, I'm aware of the general trend toward throttle tuning for economy. The S580 doesn't however have a soft throttle, it has a throttle that is WAY to soft to drive smoothly when combined with the set TQ lockup and poor shifting algorithms. I had the S580 for 18 months, that's an unusually long ownership for me. When I said I go through a lot of cars, I wasn't kidding, and I'm well acquainted with what is on offer elsewhere.
It is the only car I've owned where the throttle tuning was so soft the car was less responsive to throttle than my boat. It weighs 50 tons and has better throttle response. I put it into gear, it moves. In the S580 you push the pedal, nothing happens. Push it more, still nothing. More, barely rolling. More, WHAM (metal hitting metal). Now your moving. That isn't the EPAs fault, and it doesn't happen in any other car to my knowledge. Porsche for example is famous for having a soft throttle on what is their normal mode, but is really economy. It doesn't do that. Ever. Not with the PDK or the step. Yeah, it's irritating, but it's not an impediment to safely negotiating an intersection.
That last matters. In this locale, traffic is heavy, people are driving aggressively, and when it's your turn at a 4 way or any similar situation, you need to go without delay. With the S580 you're facing road rage around here, and I mean that literally, there were several times the car made people visibly angry.
One thing for sure; if I come back to the S Class, it will be in the 63, I'm not up for another round of ownership with a car that doesn't respond to pedal in some kind of realistic and reasonable fashion.
Thanks for sharing your experience, I learned something from it. I also assume sport mode doesn't help but I understand it doesn't make sense to always drive in sport mode in a non-AMG S-Class.
Edit: Even on the C 43, the pedal is soft but disconnecting the oil pump solenoid made it so much firmer, I was very surprised. I am honestly curious what will happen if anyone with a W223 disconnects their oil pump solenoid, perhaps that will make it much firmer?
Last edited by W205C43PFL; 05-13-2024 at 12:51 PM.
Thanks for sharing your experience, I learned something from it. I also assume sport mode doesn't help but I understand it doesn't make sense to always drive in sport mode in a non-AMG S-Class.
Edit: Even on the C 43, the pedal is soft but disconnecting the oil pump solenoid made it so much firmer, I was very surprised. I am honestly curious what will happen if anyone with a W223 disconnects their oil pump solenoid, perhaps that will make it much firmer?
I think there's a misunderstand about what's meant with a soft throttle. It's not that the pedal is soft when pressing it. This is about the throttle map and how much pedal travel is required to get a response from the engine. There are three basic throttle maps. Progressive, Linear and Aggressive. The S Class has an extremely progressive map in Comfort mode. Requiring a lot of pedal travel before you get a response from the engine. This is also often referred to as feathering the throttle. A linear throttle map gives you the best response as the amount of pedal travel translates directly to the engine response, and an aggressive throttle gives a sense of the car being faster than it is by overemphasizing the initial response. For example in case of AMGs, Comfort is progressive, but not extremely progressive, Sport and Sport+ are aggressive and Race is linear.
Sorry, I assumed we all knew that I was referring to throttle mapping when talking about a soft pedal. To be clear on the rest, I can fully understand having a soft pedal on a car with potential chauffeuring duties in the resume. I also don't feel like my opinion about what constitutes too soft, should be a frame of reference for anyone else. But I do feel in this case it is too extreme with the S580, to the point of hurting what it's intended to help in the first place. In other words, extreme enough that it's past the subjective, and is objectively, a problem. The same as windshield wipers that scrape dry glass, running up too hard on a car in front of you in ACC, etc.
I think there's a misunderstand about what's meant with a soft throttle. It's not that the pedal is soft when pressing it. This is about the throttle map and how much pedal travel is required to get a response from the engine. There are three basic throttle maps. Progressive, Linear and Aggressive. The S Class has an extremely progressive map in Comfort mode. Requiring a lot of pedal travel before you get a response from the engine. This is also often referred to as feathering the throttle. A linear throttle map gives you the best response as the amount of pedal travel translates directly to the engine response, and an aggressive throttle gives a sense of the car being faster than it is by overemphasizing the initial response. For example in case of AMGs, Comfort is progressive, but not extremely progressive, Sport and Sport+ are aggressive and Race is linear.
Sorry about that guess I mistaken what forum member crabman meant by throttle being soft, I didn't realized he was talking about throttle map and I do want to thank you for explaining it in depth as always!
Sorry, I assumed we all knew that I was referring to throttle mapping when talking about a soft pedal. To be clear on the rest, I can fully understand having a soft pedal on a car with potential chauffeuring duties in the resume. I also don't feel like my opinion about what constitutes too soft, should be a frame of reference for anyone else. But I do feel in this case it is too extreme with the S580, to the point of hurting what it's intended to help in the first place. In other words, extreme enough that it's past the subjective, and is objectively, a problem. The same as windshield wipers that scrape dry glass, running up too hard on a car in front of you in ACC, etc.
Sorry, it was my fault, I think you were pretty clear but I did not understand it correctly that you meant throttle mapping.
BMW invented the sports sedan and their models are universally more sporty than their direct competitors. The M-lite models even more so. Technically they compete with the 43 and 53 series, but there is no S43 or S53. You have to step up to the S63, but that's M8 level.
Originally Posted by W205C43PFL
I wonder if the non-M 7 series have a progressive mapping as well? What about the non-S A8?
As said above, BMWs are universally more sporty, but it's been a minute since I last drove a 7 series. Audis are also notorious for throttle lag. It's a common complaint on the Audi forums. Many complain about the laggy throttle in D and the solution is to put it in S. As apposed to BMW and MB, Audis only have two throttle maps/shift programs. D and S, although many regular MB models only have two as well. Sport+ is increasingly just a louder exhaust sound through the speakers, and everything else tops out at Sport. On the other hand AMGs have up to 5 throttle maps and shift programs. BMW M models have three, but allow the throttle map and the transmission program to be configured separately instead of being linked to each other.
Last edited by superswiss; 05-13-2024 at 05:04 PM.
BMW invented the sports sedan and their models are universally more sporty than their direct competitors. The M-lite models even more so. Technically they compete with the 43 and 53 series, but there is no S43 or S53. You have to step up to the S63, but that's M8 level.
As said above, BMWs are universally more sporty, but it's been a minute since I last drove a 7 series. Audis are also notorious for throttle lag. It's a common complaint on the Audi forums. Many complain about the laggy throttle in D and the solution is to put it in S. As apposed to BMW and MB, Audis only have two throttle maps/shift programs. D and S, although many regular MB models only have two as well. Sport+ is increasingly just a louder exhaust sound through the speakers, and everything else tops out at Sport. On the other hand AMGs have up to 5 throttle maps and shift programs. BMW M models have three, but allow the throttle map and the transmission program to be configured separately instead of being linked to each other.
Thanks a lot for the explanation! That cleared it up for me.
2022 S580, Range Rover full sized, retired (Ferraris, lamborghini, Bentley, RR, Porsche etc, etc...)
Guys I’ve had the S580 for over two years. The transmission has been quite smooth. I drive the car 90% in comfort mode and I find the throttle pressure a little lite but well within my expectations.
If I want it to be more “alert” I put it into sport mode. What am I missing Gents? I’ve owned many different vehicles and like the S580. I have other issues with the car (the battery, key fob having to be kept a certain distance away, the door openings/hinges not behaving themselves, the inane door handles, haptic controls etc) but fortunately the transmission and throttle I have found to be fine.
Guys I’ve had the S580 for over two years. The transmission has been quite smooth. I drive the car 90% in comfort mode and I find the throttle pressure a little lite but well within my expectations.
If I want it to be more “alert” I put it into sport mode. What am I missing Gents? I’ve owned many different vehicles and like the S580. I have other issues with the car (the battery, key fob having to be kept a certain distance away, the door openings/hinges not behaving themselves, the inane door handles, haptic controls etc) but fortunately the transmission and throttle I have found to be fine.
Really happy to hear this!
Wonder why the big disparity with what several others have experienced as they're all essentially built exactly the same
05-13-2024, 01:12 AM
