Wishlist for the 2026 refresh
#51
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I can't find any solid grounds to any of that. Transmission is the same, build quality and materials hasn't changed. I get that you are still in the honey-moon phase with the car and there is nothing really wrong with the peace of mind of believing that the car has gotten better (and that's great), but it's still the same exact car that was produced in 2021 (and it's already a great car). Part numbers are the same and I haven't seen a single formal release or confirmation of changes in parts or improvements made in any area. From what am seeing all the time across all models, besides OTAs, Mbenz once they release a certain generation they leave it behind and move to the next thing beside keeping an eye on safety recalls. The transmission sucks on all Mbenz when you cross-reference it with other brands that really shifts well.
I’ve owned multiple versions of the same generation car several times in my life, and I have always seen improvements in all areas as years go on. Carmakers don’t make releases about every little tweak they make in between model years.
As far as 48V being more complex, I am not sure if you know how 48V systems work... Higher voltage and lower current systems (thinner wires) with the 48V doesn't make the car more complex at all. 48V systems, in fact, usually lead to reduced material and installation than 12V systems which requires more (and heavier wires) with higher current. The system itself technologically is more advanced, but not more complex. Mbenz just hasn't done it right. You discharge the battery too much and you are off with too many codes that needs a dealer visit. That's not a complexity thing, that's more of a design flaw on their end. Auto lane changes doesn't require additional sensors. In fact, Mbenz cars already have more sensors that they need for autonomous driving. BMW switched from lance centering to full hands-free driving capability on the highway without adding a single sensor around the vehicle. It's all software, which has nothing to do with hardware complexity. In fact, most articles my mbenz suggest that the newer architectures have reduced complexity and more standardizations.
Not to be rude but I have had a 222 and have a 223, you haven’t. When you’ve had both you can argue with me that the 223 is not more complex than the 222. The increased complexity is everywhere. I don’t think there’s any question that the complexity has been poorly managed in this car and other MBUX MB models, but they are working through those challenges is my point.
Last edited by SW20S; 07-19-2024 at 08:48 AM.
#52
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..//.. each year is a little better than the last. I can give many examples of MB doing this in other models as well, 222 included. There were numerous improvements in the 19 and 20 model cars vs an 18, ..//.. People complained about shifting issues in the W222 also and I never felt any issues.
[size=33px]//..//[/size][size=33px]There is absolutely an increased complexity insofar as the 48v system ..//..[/size]
Not to be rude but I have had a 222 and have a 223, you haven’t. When you’ve had both you can argue with me that the 223 is not more complex than the 222. //..
[size=33px]//..//[/size][size=33px]There is absolutely an increased complexity insofar as the 48v system ..//..[/size]
Not to be rude but I have had a 222 and have a 223, you haven’t. When you’ve had both you can argue with me that the 223 is not more complex than the 222. //..
For the 48V, again you are arguing against the fact without sharing facts. 48V, and according to all manufacturers and science, 48V systems hit the sweet-spot – between efficient power and simplicity with the goal to optimize and standardize accessories and other electronics on the vehicle (to reduce complexity) —> less wires (sometimes, but never more) and lower mass too. Afterall it’s only higher V and lower I for more power delivery and lower losses.
For the W222 transmission, you are incorrect. I can remind you of posts when you acknowledged having some vibration issues when idle that goes away when you move or switch to N. I know you were not sure about the source of that vibration. FYI - That has been confirmed to be a transmission issue cause I had that same issue and investigated that heavily with my dealer.
For the lasts item, am sad to read that here as mostly I encountered professional discussions here, especially from you, but this one is not one of them. I know u said u didn’t mean to be rude, but if you think owning a car for few 100s of miles and weeks allows you to tell others to not argue until they drive same distance then you are absolutely out of your mind. I could have told you that I (likely), and certainly in the last decade, owned at least 3X more cars than you and you can’t argue with me but I’d be adopting a highschool-like argument if I say so. I currently own 2 cars with 48V, and owned 4 in the last 5 years, but I still won’t tell you to wait for your 3rd 48V car to argue about that point.
The bottom line is, I don’t think anyone here knows the exact complexity difference between W223 and W222, but it is absolutely not day and night difference. Mbenz claims they have been doing more standardization and reducing complexity with their recent architecture.
Last edited by S_W222; 07-19-2024 at 11:28 AM.
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QuadBenz (07-20-2024)
#53
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I wouldn’t seek to argue with you about cars that you have owned and I haven’t. As for how many cars you’ve owned vs me…you have no idea how many cars I have owned lol. Regardless of how long I’ve had the 223, I’ve had it longer than you have driven one on a test drive, and I’ve lived with it day in and day out for 3 weeks which you haven’t done. Theres an old saying “someone with experience is not at the mercy of someone with an opinion”. I am happy to defer to you on Teslas and BMWs, but not on cars I own and you don’t, sorry.
My experience will grow and I will continue to share that experience. Until you have one yourself though you shouldn’t argue with peoples actual first hand experiences. The 223 is an order of magnitude more complex than the 222, if you get one yourself you will see that too.
Every car gets a little better with each successive year. There are always little tweaks to address customer feedback etc. Examples are creaking interior materials in models that were improved very quietly, namely the C class and GLC models. Every time they release a reflash or a TSB for a car they incorporate those improvements into the build of the cars coming off the line making them better. I had two Jeep Grand Cherokees and have had 3 Chrysler Pacificas, the first GC and first Pacifica were nightmares, the replacements were great. Same generation, not a refresh. I had two LS460s, a 2015 and a 2017, same generation no refresh the 2017 was better in many ways. Engine was smoother, build was better. Rattles I had in the 15 never presented in the 17. Another example for MB is them quietly adding the cast iron liners to the M278 to address bore scoring. No refresh. No press release. No fanfare.
As for the transmission im talking about shifting, not the slight idle vibration. I didn’t have any issues with mine yet Streamliner had MB buy his back. I have experienced no odd or clunking shifting in my 223 either. If I do I will report it. It does have the same idle vibration although it’s lessened.
My experience will grow and I will continue to share that experience. Until you have one yourself though you shouldn’t argue with peoples actual first hand experiences. The 223 is an order of magnitude more complex than the 222, if you get one yourself you will see that too.
Every car gets a little better with each successive year. There are always little tweaks to address customer feedback etc. Examples are creaking interior materials in models that were improved very quietly, namely the C class and GLC models. Every time they release a reflash or a TSB for a car they incorporate those improvements into the build of the cars coming off the line making them better. I had two Jeep Grand Cherokees and have had 3 Chrysler Pacificas, the first GC and first Pacifica were nightmares, the replacements were great. Same generation, not a refresh. I had two LS460s, a 2015 and a 2017, same generation no refresh the 2017 was better in many ways. Engine was smoother, build was better. Rattles I had in the 15 never presented in the 17. Another example for MB is them quietly adding the cast iron liners to the M278 to address bore scoring. No refresh. No press release. No fanfare.
As for the transmission im talking about shifting, not the slight idle vibration. I didn’t have any issues with mine yet Streamliner had MB buy his back. I have experienced no odd or clunking shifting in my 223 either. If I do I will report it. It does have the same idle vibration although it’s lessened.
Last edited by SW20S; 07-19-2024 at 12:06 PM.
#54
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Is yours 4-Matic?
W222 idle vibration was limited only to 4-Matic for whatever reason. De-coding some eco settings almost took that off. There is something in how the engine and transmission are coupled, and for some emissions related stuff, it causes that vibration that Mbenz is refusing to address in exchange to maintain some emissions numbers/threshold (just my own explanation).
W222 idle vibration was limited only to 4-Matic for whatever reason. De-coding some eco settings almost took that off. There is something in how the engine and transmission are coupled, and for some emissions related stuff, it causes that vibration that Mbenz is refusing to address in exchange to maintain some emissions numbers/threshold (just my own explanation).
#55
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All W223s in the US are 4Matic, it’s the same kind of vibration it’s just less pronounced. It’s not a big deal at all, especially since the engine stop start shuts off at idle and that’s not problematic like it was in the 222.
#57
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Can we not make this thread about the i7 too? lol
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BenjaminKohl (07-22-2024)
#58
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Streamliner (07-20-2024)
#59
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We were talking about glitches in MBUX and I mentioned how iDrive isn't perfect either. I stopped by the BMW forums today and a lot of stuff sure sounded similar:
( Hopefully this is a “one off”).
Just bought a i7 e50 this week.
Well its already in service, with 21 miles on it..
-Had it at home for 36 hrs before i recieved front drivers seat malfunction.
**( most of the 36hrs was spent trying to get t-mobile on the esim, **no success**).
-Recieved error also states “perform” seat calibration. ( also wouldnt let the tv drop down, even when there was clearance). The seat controller worked and moved the seat incremently.
After a few minutes..
-The seat error went away and then showed “driver restraint system malfunction”.
-Took it to straight to BMW with 21 miles on it yesterday where its still there..
Will keep everyone posted… maybe someone has experienced this..
All on page 1. The complexity of all of these cars and the sheer amount of functions and personalization makes keeping them glitch free very hard.
I took delivery of my 2024 i7 on 3/30/24. I turned the Uneven Road Surface warning off before I drove away on delivery day.
It has been off all of April, May, June and 1/2 of July.
Now, after a day or two...it is back on. I am logged in, I am the only driver, and no other person has a profile or key or digital key used.
Any idea why this is happening? And no software OTA, since I have that open high voltage cable recall. With active recalls, OTA does not work and BMWFS account payoff info is frozen.
Thanks!
It has been off all of April, May, June and 1/2 of July.
Now, after a day or two...it is back on. I am logged in, I am the only driver, and no other person has a profile or key or digital key used.
Any idea why this is happening? And no software OTA, since I have that open high voltage cable recall. With active recalls, OTA does not work and BMWFS account payoff info is frozen.
Thanks!
So today, I just got the scare of my Life! While coasting to a red light, the car killed and the brake lights came on, the stopping power was almost none and the break pedal was hard to the press. I started it back up and managed to pull in a parking lot with weak brakes... it prompted me to engage the parking brakes and after a few times, that seemed to fix it. I've attached a photo of the lights.
Greetings all!
( Hopefully this is a “one off”).
Just bought a i7 e50 this week.
Well its already in service, with 21 miles on it..
-Had it at home for 36 hrs before i recieved front drivers seat malfunction.
**( most of the 36hrs was spent trying to get t-mobile on the esim, **no success**).
-Recieved error also states “perform” seat calibration. ( also wouldnt let the tv drop down, even when there was clearance). The seat controller worked and moved the seat incremently.
After a few minutes..
-The seat error went away and then showed “driver restraint system malfunction”.
-Took it to straight to BMW with 21 miles on it yesterday where its still there..
Will keep everyone posted… maybe someone has experienced this..
All on page 1. The complexity of all of these cars and the sheer amount of functions and personalization makes keeping them glitch free very hard.
Last edited by SW20S; 07-23-2024 at 01:56 PM.
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SW20S (07-23-2024)
#61
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OAN - sent you a follow up pm - did you receive it? Fwiw, my iPhone's mbworld app displays some different pms sent/recv'd than the website so maybe it's not displaying?
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Last edited by RJC; 07-23-2024 at 10:05 PM.
#62
Got some news for everyone regarding the S-Klasse. According to two recent articles on JESMB, the W223 Facelift budget has been increased a great deal, to a figure higher than what is normal/expected for a mid-cycle facelift (minor change). Unfortunately, this probably means it won’t arrive in the US until model year 2027:
https://jesmb.de/23058/
The S-Klasse is also not doing well sales-wise. The EQS sales struggles are well known to many of us, but it appears the Sonderklasse is headed down a similar path: Q2 sales have dropped 42% year over year, which may or may not be the reason for an additional shift cut at Factory 65:
https://jesmb.de/23111/
https://jesmb.de/23058/
The S-Klasse is also not doing well sales-wise. The EQS sales struggles are well known to many of us, but it appears the Sonderklasse is headed down a similar path: Q2 sales have dropped 42% year over year, which may or may not be the reason for an additional shift cut at Factory 65:
https://jesmb.de/23111/
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Streamliner (07-30-2024)
#63
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Thread Starter
Got some news for everyone regarding the S-Klasse. According to two recent articles on JESMB, the W223 Facelift budget has been increased a great deal, to a figure higher than what is normal/expected for a mid-cycle facelift (minor change). Unfortunately, this probably means it won’t arrive in the US until model year 2027:
https://jesmb.de/23058/
The S-Klasse is also not doing well sales-wise. The EQS sales struggles are well known to many of us, but it appears the Sonderklasse is headed down a similar path: Q2 sales have dropped 42% year over year, which may or may not be the reason for an additional shift cut at Factory 65:
https://jesmb.de/23111/
https://jesmb.de/23058/
The S-Klasse is also not doing well sales-wise. The EQS sales struggles are well known to many of us, but it appears the Sonderklasse is headed down a similar path: Q2 sales have dropped 42% year over year, which may or may not be the reason for an additional shift cut at Factory 65:
https://jesmb.de/23111/
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#64
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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Got some news for everyone regarding the S-Klasse. According to two recent articles on JESMB, the W223 Facelift budget has been increased a great deal, to a figure higher than what is normal/expected for a mid-cycle facelift (minor change). Unfortunately, this probably means it won’t arrive in the US until model year 2027:
https://jesmb.de/23058/
The S-Klasse is also not doing well sales-wise. The EQS sales struggles are well known to many of us, but it appears the Sonderklasse is headed down a similar path: Q2 sales have dropped 42% year over year, which may or may not be the reason for an additional shift cut at Factory 65:
https://jesmb.de/23111/
https://jesmb.de/23058/
The S-Klasse is also not doing well sales-wise. The EQS sales struggles are well known to many of us, but it appears the Sonderklasse is headed down a similar path: Q2 sales have dropped 42% year over year, which may or may not be the reason for an additional shift cut at Factory 65:
https://jesmb.de/23111/
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places (07-31-2024)
#65
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PFL205.064 with M276.823 (Oil pump solenoid defeated)
Got some news for everyone regarding the S-Klasse. According to two recent articles on JESMB, the W223 Facelift budget has been increased a great deal, to a figure higher than what is normal/expected for a mid-cycle facelift (minor change). Unfortunately, this probably means it won’t arrive in the US until model year 2027:
https://jesmb.de/23058/
The S-Klasse is also not doing well sales-wise. The EQS sales struggles are well known to many of us, but it appears the Sonderklasse is headed down a similar path: Q2 sales have dropped 42% year over year, which may or may not be the reason for an additional shift cut at Factory 65:
https://jesmb.de/23111/
https://jesmb.de/23058/
The S-Klasse is also not doing well sales-wise. The EQS sales struggles are well known to many of us, but it appears the Sonderklasse is headed down a similar path: Q2 sales have dropped 42% year over year, which may or may not be the reason for an additional shift cut at Factory 65:
https://jesmb.de/23111/
#66
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I'm wondering if you feel that way because you have a low optioned 500, I assume it doesn't have nappa leather? I just had a C300 loaner which I really liked actually but sitting in my S580 feels nothing like sitting in it, I have exclusive nappa with the full leather dash and doors...
#68
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![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/b599dGNfUf8/maxresdefault.jpg)
![](https://di-uploads-pod7.dealerinspire.com/performancemercedesbenz/uploads/2022/02/2022-c-class-interior.jpeg)
I just don't think these two interiors at all look the same. You can tell they are both Mercedes...
#70
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
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#72
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Thats just it, its not identical at all. They both have horizontal gauge screens, and vertical infotainment screens and the way the consoles open is the same, bit the vents are an entirely different shape and placement, the armrests and door panel designs are totally different. The design of the wood trim is totally different, the center screen is smaller and angled towards the driver in the C and flat on the dash in the S, I just have no issue telling these two interiors apart.
![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/b599dGNfUf8/maxresdefault.jpg)
![](https://di-uploads-pod7.dealerinspire.com/performancemercedesbenz/uploads/2022/02/2022-c-class-interior.jpeg)
I just don't think these two interiors at all look the same. You can tell they are both Mercedes...
![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/b599dGNfUf8/maxresdefault.jpg)
![](https://di-uploads-pod7.dealerinspire.com/performancemercedesbenz/uploads/2022/02/2022-c-class-interior.jpeg)
I just don't think these two interiors at all look the same. You can tell they are both Mercedes...
#73
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As my grandfather, the Admiral, who served in the US Navy for 48 years, 1885-1933, often told us kids, "Different ships, different long splices."
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Frenetic (07-31-2024)
#74
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No more MB:(
Same cookbook. Same architecture. Except for the vents and the doors the rest is pretty close to identical. These interiors were not developed apart. I sat in both and can say the fit and finish pretty much the same. The only thing that saves the S is the upgraded leather, but that's just an application.
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Frenetic (07-31-2024)
#75
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BMW, Tesla, Mercedes, Porsche
Same cookbook. Same architecture. Except for the vents and the doors the rest is pretty close to identical. These interiors were not developed apart. I sat in both and can say the fit and finish pretty much the same. The only thing that saves the S is the upgraded leather, but that's just an application.