SW20S

Love hearing more people who don't own the car talk about what a disappointment it is lol. Car & Driver:



My W223 isn't perfect, but its a considerable improvement over my 222 in many ways.

Yeah, I did. Then I can get a 27 or 28 if I want to do that.

Wolfman

Except that the w220 was a 100 times worse in quality. The W223 is a beacon of quality in comparison.

That car had serious mechanical and electrical issues in addition to rusting through in record time due to a faulty paint process.

The old days weren’t always better and neither were the cars, Mercedes included.
That includes the much praised W126 and W140 models.

SW20S

Like I said before, having a 223 now...all this talk about how terrible the car is makes zero sense to me. It rides better, is quieter than the 222, the tech is on another level. There is too much piano black plastic and some quality build in the interior is not what it should be, the door handles are dumb. The car however is a joy to drive. Styling is subjective, the car is beautiful but I think overall the 222 is better looking. Terrible? A total disappointment? I just don't see that at all.

With the basically completed refresh cars running around, it won't be 2027 we'll have the refresh for 2026.

places

Quite the exaggeration, however the fact that the comparison is being made speaks enough for me personally. We had 2021 for about 4 years and the only issues were the plastic trim around the front seat kept chipping and a heater coil burned through the leather, 2005 model was trouble free. Maybe we were lucky

I can't speak to the 126 or 140, other than they were very solid and well built. They are still praised for a reason.

MB_Fahrer

What? Not sure if serious? No way on electric. I will not be sitting for 20 minutes waiting for my car to recharge. Just want to put gas in and go. Plus, the engine is part of the overall driving experience. I've yet to find an electric car that truly has character. They are fast, but that's about it.

SW20S

He means as an option, instead of the separate EQS model. He's right.

The EV powertrain in the i7 for instance is amazing. I would choose that over the V8 for sure given plenty of opportunities to recharge.



It is an exaggeration, as are your and others' comments about the 223.

Dima

Likewise, the same people hanging out here all the time expressing their hate for the car they don't have and never had driven,
Don't like the car - fine, don't buy it, why ruin it for others? Wonder if it has some psychological component. I mean what would make a guy go to the restaurant every day where he hates the food and then writing bad reviews?

SW20S

This happened all the time at ClubLexus too, what they finally did was after warnings they banned people from the model specific forums who didnt own the car and just posted negative stuff all the time, and the model specific forums became much more enjoyable.

Its one thing if you own the car and its problematic and you vent and post about it, but when you don't own the car and all you do is try and tell people who do own the car how much their cars suck all the time...what is the benefit of that to the community?

Wolfman

Not at all.
We had a 2000 S500 and a 2000 CL500. We ordered the CL500 new when I saw the amount of plastic in the S-Class but then came across a nicely equipped S500 Designo edition (Mocha Black with Expresso interior). Loved the color combo but the car was a disaster. Always taken care of and garaged like all our cars, the car was rusted through by 2005. Something not seen in a Mercedes since the seventies/eighties. Apparently due to a new water-based paint process, corrosion went wild in a short period of time. The car was out of warranty but Mercedes was doing serious damage control and covered 90% of the body and paintwork. All fenders, door skins, rear quarter wheel arches and trunk was replaced and the edge of the moonroof had rust removal (which eventually came back). The air conditioning developed mold and they had to completely gut the interior, dashboard, etc. to remove compressor, evaporator and condenser. A 40 hours job by itself. AIrmatic leakage on struts and distributor block and various smaller electrical items.
The CL500 ABC had no catastrophic damage but would randomly be taller on the passenger side. Seating position couldn't be remembered anytime the seat back was flipped forward and a bunch of small gremlins. Our 2003 SL55 had $25k in parts replaced within the first 9 months or so...

Point is that these cars were complete crap and nothing close the issue experienced today. The 48Volt system is an exception but a quick check on other German brands will mirror that due to dependence on Bosch, a major component supplier. That said, the W221 S63 was also famous for randomly loosing power while driving and causing dangerous situations.

Wolfman

Bimmerpost bans people off their forum when they complain about the models, especially non-owners. Hard moderation but it keeps down the toxic content and preserves a great place for owners to discuss their vehicles...

Frenetic

I wouldn’t judge these complainers too hard. I don’t believe they’re complaining out of hatred or pure malice, in fact I feel like it’s quite the opposite. The impression I get is that they’re complaining because they love the brand and are disappointed and/or feel betrayed in what they’re offering. I honestly feel like these people want to buy again if…

Now there are other complainers, like me and my GLE, who just got fed up with repeated issues.

SW20S

It gets to a point where it becomes just trolling. If a brand is no longer for you, just move on. I moved on from Lexus…I don’t post in the model forums of Lexus models and talk about how terrible they are all the time. That’s not fair to those who do own the cars and want a place to talk about them. It gets to a point where with specific posters we know their opinions.

Posting when you own a car and are having issues is entirely different.

Streamliner

Well, then there are those of us who slogged through the trenches with the W223 and have a lot to say about it. Does that make us bad guys? As someone who has bought or leased 17 brand new, higher end MB’s, with my last eight new vehicles being MB’s, I do feel utterly disappointed with the brand. I felt as though I would be driving new MB’s for the rest of my life, but something happened in Stuttgart and the old school thoroughness that was given to previous models somehow ran off the rails. This probably happened around 2017 or so, but definitely by the time the W223 design & engineering elements were set in stone.

When I think of that lavish video that was done to launch the W223 and then think about actually living with the car—a SECOND YEAR car by the way—for 18 months, I feel as though I was lied to by Mr. Kallenius. The car was not ready for prime time. It’s not that it was/is a horrible car, it just had/has too many issues—ranging from merely irritating to significant to potentially disastrous—that just make one shake their head and wonder “WHY?” MB has done SO much better in the past, but they sure stepped in it this time.

Frenetic

So, I want to add to my original list…

1. A ZF 8-speed transmission. Mercedes’ 9-speed transmission is pure garbage. There’s absolutely NO EXCUSE this thing should shift as poorly as it does now.
2. 4-zone climate control standard. The way they hide 4-zone climate control now is ridiculous. I can option out 4-zone climate control in an Accord a hell of lot easier than this thing. It should be standard in this car imo. It’s sacrilege that the “limo” of cars doesn’t have this regardless of options.
3. HUD standard or part of some common package. There are way too many dealer S classes without the damn HUD.
4. Drive pilot as a one-time payment option.
5. A little more cushioning in the standard seats.
6. Slightly better build quality

7. Less cheap plastic.
8. A more refined suspension. This thing can feel abnormally unsettled over rough surfaces in comfort mode. It’s strange how the suspension reacts at times. I want to be completely insulated in comfort mode.
9. Revert the instrument cluster configuration restrictions. It’s too simple now. Bring back how it could be configured in the V167.
10. Get rid of every capacitive touch button.
11. Add every camera to the driver recorder feature.

SW20S

You at least did own the car, BUT...you don't any longer and you're moving on from the brand...with you too at this point its just trolling.

SW20S

I actually actively sought out a car without the HUD...I hate the huge hole in the dash.

I really think something is wrong with your car. My car doesn't feel anything like this, its the best riding car I have ever had.

This is a good one...no clue why they did this! Its even less configurable than my W222 with COMAND...

Yes! I don't want to buy an aftermarket dashcam like I had before but I don't like not having recording from the rear.

Streamliner

Of course, you make excellent points. But I feel that the W223 should be compared to the models that immediately preceded it, namely the W221 & W222. Those were truly marvelous cars. I so loved my 2013 S550. My 2015 & 2018’s were wonderful, but by the time my very late 2020 S560 rolled off the assembly line, the dark angel of harsh shifting/sloppy shifting transmissions made his appearance and seems to still be reeking havoc on the 9G-Tronic units.

By the time the first W223’s were being built, there just seemed to be nobody checking to see that everything was the way it should be. It seemed as though however the cars were built, that was just fine—which turned out not to be the case. One only has to look at the truly horrible, black plastic, haptic control steering wheels that were a bad design from the start, but which are now being used in most all MB models. It’s almost as if, without ever testing them, some bean counter placed an order for a million of them, because he got a good deal. That steering wheel should have never made it past the prototype stage. Like the W222 door handles, they had the PERFECT steering wheel, but just had to “FIX” it—which really means cheapen it. I believe that the steering wheel is a metaphor for the overall design & engineering of the W223.

Streamliner

It would appear that the folks over there have lightened up a bit, as there are currently several, VERY critical posts about various BMW models.

SW20S

I like my steering wheel fine lol. Prefer non haptic buttons but what’s the issue with the design? It’s the same design with just different materials. I doubt piano black plastic is cheaper than silver plastic. I do agree that it was better that the S Class had its own wheel that wasn’t shared with other models.

I can list plenty of things that were better in the W222 but I can also list plenty of things that are better in the 223.

Wolfman

Nothing is done in a vacuum unfortunately, The nasty piano black plastic was a trend across all German brands that hopefully seems to subside a bit. Dropping buttons for screens still appears to be a fashion trend and I am hoping for capacitive buttons will go away as well but the W223 was not a direct evolution from the W221 or W222 as the demographic shift occurred and the car was designed for a younger audience and a changed market strategy for MB. When it comes to tech changes that are driven ever increasing regulations and penalty avoidance, the results are not liked by anyone including the manufacturer. Mercedes would rather put a simple V8 in a car then building 4 cylinder hybrid setups. But unfortunately, the American market is just not relevant here.

In regards to the 9 G-Tronic I have never experienced harsh shifting but also feel that the ZF is better but much of that depends on the programming (mating to the engine characteristics & desired shifting behavior). BMW does the best job here. Porsche's PDK is a gold standard for sports cars (also made by ZF) but they only manufacture to Porsche's specs (no design). But keep in mind that Mercedes transmissions have a long history and good reputation internationally and thus considered a competitive differentiator. The chance of MB switching to ZF will be zero, at least for ICE.

crabman

My trans generally shifted fine; smooth, no harshness, and this normal operation gave me no complaint. On the other hand, it occasionally would do the slam, bang, clang, whatever you want to call it. The hard metallic metal meeting metal, in an unhealthy way, that I've never heard in any other car, from any brand, at any time. That was partially fixed in updates. At the time I picked the car up, it was something that would occur somewhat regularly, in almost any condition, and could be invoked at will on steep hills. The steep hills clang remained up to the time I turned the car in, but they fixed it elsewhere. That seems to imply, at least the possibility of fully fixing it, exists.

As to the capacitive buttons: They're on record as saying they're pulling the capacitive on the wheel, and said more buttons in general. I suppose we'll just have to hope the capacitive volume slider is history. In any event, capacitive is low(er) cost to manufacture in nearly every respect, including a lower warranty cost percentage. It's not hard to guess why they keep trying to sneak them into cars, even though they don't work as well or intuitively as the button or knob they replace.

They're not the first. Lincoln did it with their McConaughey era MKX; it also made it only to the refresh, before buttons were added back in. What I believe you're going to see here across brands is a testing of what they can get away with before consumers revolt in a way that says the profit generated is lost in reduced sales. This is just me reading the tea leaves, but I think BMW will do the same with their LCI setup, and others as well. With BMW you can already see it happening in software; consumers were heard, and the cars quickly iterated from 8, to 8.5 with it's added top layer buttons. My guess is this will also happen in hardware as the cars start to refresh or move to new models. The cynic in me says that because they moved the playing field in terms of our defined expectations; we end up happy to get some back, even though we don't get them all. For them, that's still a win.

places

Bingo! In a perfect world I'd have an SL and an S in my garage. I just can't get behind some of the decisions made as well as what I feel is a drop in quality. Some of us here have proven brand loyalty and would like nothing more than to see it come back. I remain hopeful that MB will get it back.

Streamliner

Exactly how I feel! I had the SL, the S and a Wagon in our garage in 2020 and the world was at peace—until the S transmission went bonkers and MBUSA decided to take it back, rather than just fix it. My daily driver situation has been less than enjoyable since then. The spectacular SL and the wonderful Wagon still reside with us. I hope they play nice with their new stablemate.

P.S. I can say, very honestly, that IF MB had simply repaired the jerky transmission in the 2020 S560 that I special ordered, I would most likely still have it today. Their refusal led me to my 2022 S580 disaster and to a very basic, CPO 2020 S560 which is not something I want to drive. I did not leave Mercedes-Benz, Mercedes-Benz left me.

RJC

MB are you listening?

NbyNW

Creepy trees… they know that we know that they know. Just smaller than in the movie…