S-Class (W223) 2021 to Present

Is too much commonality ruining the S Class?

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Old Today, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by places
We had a 190E 2.6, looking back that little ride was built like a mini bank vault, solid. As far as I can remember, you only had E, S, and SL plus a couple variations of coupes. Mercedes kept it simple, just perfecting their wheel.
You sir have fine taste in automobiles. I had a 5 speed version of the 190E 2.6. It was a great car. My big aspiration back the was a W124 300E.

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Old Today, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Frenetic
I would bet a lot of money that the S Class refresh is identical to the current E Class interior.
It will have a similar theme but won't be identical.

Originally Posted by crabman
I own a few apartments and a house overseas, the one I was at most recently is in Sicily. It is not a tourist area but there are something like 50 restaurants or trattorias within a 15-minute walk of my apartment there. Almost every one of them will offer a better experience than I'll get in the US at most restaurants. Chances are very high the owner will be in the building. There will be a personal concern about my meal, and the service I received. The wait staff does not expect to be gifted a yacht when I leave. I know a lot of those people owning and working in those restaurants by name, and they know mine. When we see each other in the market or elsewhere around the city, there will be a greeting, a friendly nod.

It used to be that way here. When I went to a restaurant as a kid, there was a good chance the owner was in the building at least some of the time. They knew my name. I knew their names. They servers served, but were not considered servants, in the way many people view them now. It was a much better experience. In general. Not always, but in general, dining out is not what it used to be, it has declined.
A lot of this has to do with most restaurants now in the US being chains or corporate owned vs small, independent restaurants. I can name many restaurants here in the US that I frequent that are still just as you describe, but those are small independently owned restaurants and they are becoming fewer and farther between.
Old Today, 03:59 PM
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Years ago, I contacted the GM at the dealer I was then using with this: "Bring your $29K CLA in for service and drive away in a $29K CLA loaner. Bring your $130K S560 in for service and drive away in a $29K CLA loaner. What is wrong with this picture?" He called me and said that from now on, I would get an "E Class or better loaner."

I'll beat my dead horse again: MB dealerships should be split up into Daimler-Benz stores where everything below an E Class is sold and Mercedes-Benz stores where E Class and above are sold. I know it will never happen, but it should.

As for restaurants, here in Southern California, we have a company called Hillstone. They operate Houston's, Gulfstream, Bandara, Honor Bar, R&D Kitchen & a few others. This company is, without a doubt, "THE" most conscientious, over-the-top, high quality restaurant business I have ever had the good fortune to find. My wife and I joke about the young employees who are like out of "The Stepford Wives" movie: Each one is impeccably groomed, smiling, polite, clear speaking and utterly knowledgeable of every dish they serve. These are not overly expensive places either. They offer a high quality experience and fabulous food for a price you are never upset about paying because everything was PERFECT!
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Originally Posted by Streamliner
Years ago, I contacted the GM at the dealer I was then using with this: "Bring your $29K CLA in for service and drive away in a $29K CLA loaner. Bring your $130K S560 in for service and drive away in a $29K CLA loaner. What is wrong with this picture?" He called me and said that from now on, I would get an "E Class or better loaner."

I'll beat my dead horse again: MB dealerships should be split up into Daimler-Benz stores where everything below an E Class is sold and Mercedes-Benz stores where E Class and above are sold. I know it will never happen, but it should.
Thats just not economically feasible, makes no business sense for them to have multiple dealers. I also always just ask what loaners they have available and pick the best one, no big deal. Every once and a while I get stick with a CLA or GLA or GLB because thats all they have, but if its going to be there for a few days then I will come back and swap it out. Never been an issue.

As for restaurants, here in Southern California, we have a company called Hillstone. They operate Houston's, Gulfstream, Bandara, Honor Bar, R&D Kitchen & a few others. This company is, without a doubt, "THE" most conscientious, over-the-top, high quality restaurant business I have ever had the good fortune to find. My wife and I joke about the young employees who are like out of "The Stepford Wives" movie: Each one is impeccably groomed, smiling, polite, clear speaking and utterly knowledgeable of every dish they serve. These are not overly expensive places either. They offer a high quality experience and fabulous food for a price you are never upset about paying because everything was PERFECT!
Hillstone is really great, very unusual for a chain. They're a nationwide chain.
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Originally Posted by crabman
Agree, I've been around a fair bit, for work and play. Like most people, I grew up being indoctrinated into the systems in my country, and it's culture. Once you get around, you start to figure out that your country isn't always what the propagandist would have you believe. Don't get me wrong, I love my country, but I see it now in a somewhat different way than I did before I had been exposed to other cultures.
In 2015, my wife and I spent 15 days in Italy. We went to Rome, Florence and the Tuscan countryside. We spared no expense, stayed at the best places and tried to dine at places recommended by others. The best Italian food I've ever had has been in Southern California. The ONLY bottle of wine I have ever sent back in a restaurant, was in Rome and I just about got in a fight with the manager, as he would not take it back. I'm sure that locals know the best places to dine, but our Italy trip was not a culinary success.
Old Today, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dima
In all seriousness now, it's all a moot point, very soon, most cars would have AI assistance and that's about it. The only screens would be for entertainment purposes. The driver involvement in actual driving or controlling functionalities would be minimal, so most cars would look the same on the inside. 2026 S class should have MBOS which is a first step towards it as it is completely built by MB.
I cannot disclose a lot, but I am in AI space in Finance, we have developed things you guys would never believe, and most of that should be applicable for cars. (I am not sure what people would be doing for work though, so fewer people would be able to afford S class) Of course the costs of production would be reduced a lot as well. Anyway the point is, cars would be more or less the same in a few years, unless the government puts a lid on it as they'd worry about high unemployment.
Now that's what I'm talking about...I knew you had it in you. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I don't work directly in the AI space, but definitely see it encroaching on my space, just like you were saying. I'm a Behavioral Economist so I get paid to understand and predict why people spend money the way they do. And get paid better to move the needle, which is what I really enjoy doing. If MB were to call me, I would jump for joy and scratch my eyes out at the same time. People are finnicky, super high expectations, super low grace. A manufacturer like MB is appealing to the tip of the spear in that space, and while they've made some mis-calculations, I humbly admit they're doing a better job than I think I could do.
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Old Today, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner

I'll beat my dead horse again: MB dealerships should be split up into Daimler-Benz stores where everything below an E Class is sold and Mercedes-Benz stores where E Class and above are sold. I know it will never happen, but it should.
your idea is not new Stream, they had tried it on a Titanic you're old enough to remember how it worked out?
They kind of attempted something like that in Saint-Tropez, you call for restaurant reservation, they ask you if you'd be spending 10k euroes or more and if not, no reservation. They had to abandon it this year though after the ensured outrage.

Old Today, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner
Y......

As for restaurants, here in Southern California, we have a company called Hillstone. They operate Houston's, Gulfstream, Bandara, Honor Bar, R&D Kitchen & a few others. This company is, without a doubt, "THE" most conscientious, over-the-top, high quality restaurant business I have ever had the good fortune to find. My wife and I joke about the young employees who are like out of "The Stepford Wives" movie: Each one is impeccably groomed, smiling, polite, clear speaking and utterly knowledgeable of every dish they serve. These are not overly expensive places either. They offer a high quality experience and fabulous food for a price you are never upset about paying because everything was PERFECT!
I'm in SoCal 4-6 times yearly. When in OC my fav is Eddie V's, also like Olea, but less so since they no longer offer a rack of lamb. Still go so I can grab a slice of cake from the shop next door. I'll be sure to look up Hillstone establishments when I'm in the area.
Old Today, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner
In 2015, my wife and I spent 15 days in Italy. We went to Rome, Florence and the Tuscan countryside. We spared no expense, stayed at the best places and tried to dine at places recommended by others. The best Italian food I've ever had has been in Southern California. The ONLY bottle of wine I have ever sent back in a restaurant, was in Rome and I just about got in a fight with the manager, as he would not take it back. I'm sure that locals know the best places to dine, but our Italy trip was not a culinary success.
in my younger days, I used to stay in Eden in Rome where you have rooftop restaurant that is frequented by top celebrities, devine view, food and service. In Italy you have to tip well, often in advance. In Milan, I used to stay in Four Seasons during the Milan fashion show, both women and food were something to admire. But I've never had a bad meal anywhere in Italy.
Old Today, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Streamliner
Years ago, I contacted the GM at the dealer I was then using with this: "Bring your $29K CLA in for service and drive away in a $29K CLA loaner. Bring your $130K S560 in for service and drive away in a $29K CLA loaner. What is wrong with this picture?" He called me and said that from now on, I would get an "E Class or better loaner."

I'll beat my dead horse again: MB dealerships should be split up into Daimler-Benz stores where everything below an E Class is sold and Mercedes-Benz stores where E Class and above are sold. I know it will never happen, but it should.

PERFECT!
If you think MB is bad, I dare you to go buy a Genesis. Not only will you be pestered about monthly payments before even choosse a car, but you definitely won't get a loaner for service. And most dealerships only have 1 tech trained to work on any of the Genesis systems. I had a G90 and had to wait 3 months to get a tech who could hande an air suspension problem, and this was prior to the pandemic. They might be slightly better now, but they definitely need the separation. Unfortunately it's not going to happen for Genesis or for MB because there's just not enough traffic to warrant a separate facility and staff solely for the premium/ultra premium class of vehicles. That's one of the reasons you never see an Acura or Infinity dealership busy. And yes, Lexus blows that rationale of the water, but Lexus has always been different.
Old Today, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by carlosinseattle
I'm in SoCal 4-6 times yearly. When in OC my fav is Eddie V's, also like Olea, but less so since they no longer offer a rack of lamb. Still go so I can grab a slice of cake from the shop next door. I'll be sure to look up Hillstone establishments when I'm in the area.
Where do you recommend in Seattle?
Old Today, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by carlosinseattle
Now that's what I'm talking about...I knew you had it in you. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I don't work directly in the AI space, but definitely see it encroaching on my space, just like you were saying. I'm a Behavioral Economist so I get paid to understand and predict why people spend money the way they do. And get paid better to move the needle, which is what I really enjoy doing. If MB were to call me, I would jump for joy and scratch my eyes out at the same time. People are finnicky, super high expectations, super low grace. A manufacturer like MB is appealing to the tip of the spear in that space, and while they've made some mis-calculations, I humbly admit they're doing a better job than I think I could do.
We use predictive models to manage $billions, but in a lot of ways, it's not even close to a human-like intelligence. But, it's getting there, it's just a matter of computer power that is 3-5 years behind what's required.
Billions are being invested in that now. And into a medical research where AI is making huge progress. The really wealthy (not S class owners) spent tons of money to live forever and not to be sick
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Originally Posted by carlosinseattle
I applaud your decision to live in the Midwest, I grew up in Cleveland and miss that vibe sometimes. However, I love where I live. You're 100% right about making broad generalizations. I did that in droves. I should have qualified that by saying something like "what I've observed". We travel frequently, and have experienced the same thing in other areas besides our wonderful city. I also should have mentioned that the process for buying a car has changed for everybody. I remember when you had to have "good credit" to purchase a car. I remeber when you never spent more than 10% of your paycheck on a car. I remember when it was looked at as an achievement when you could buy a car. Without making a value judgement, comparing the "good ole days" versus today, I think it's fair to say things are different. I'd also add that things are different across the board, and MB's problems are a function of a larger trend in customer taste and preferences as much as what they're producing. Nothing is as apecial as it was 30 years ago, and a large part of our population don't think about material possessions, especially as it relates to quality, the same as years ago. I say that as an observer, not a judge.
Thank you for your kind response...
But! Kentucky is NOT in the Midwest!
We, owning the Ohio River, are below the extended Mason-Dixon Line. To us this is significant. Buckeyes (a cognomen created by a man who was born in Maryland, grew up and practiced medicine much of his life in Kentucky, before settling in Cincinnati,), Hoosiers, and Illinoisans live north of the Ohio in the Midwest.

,
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Originally Posted by Streamliner
In 2015, my wife and I spent 15 days in Italy. We went to Rome, Florence and the Tuscan countryside. We spared no expense, stayed at the best places and tried to dine at places recommended by others. The best Italian food I've ever had has been in Southern California. The ONLY bottle of wine I have ever sent back in a restaurant, was in Rome and I just about got in a fight with the manager, as he would not take it back. I'm sure that locals know the best places to dine, but our Italy trip was not a culinary success.
As far as I know, you run into the 1 and done syndrome in every big city/tourist stop. This is where the business is catering to customers who will only come once, and no matter what they do, will never come back. You see these places in every country. Another in general thing is that when traveling overseas, sparing no expense, and staying at the best places, often means you're setting yourself up for a bad experience. A good rule of thumb is the more American it looks, and particularly any place that is obviously catering to Americans, the worse it will be, and the more it will cost.

Take Florence. If you stay in the old city, you're going to pay significantly more than if you stay outside the barriers. More for food, accommodations, everything. All of it will be worse than what you will get just a ten minute walk out of the old city. Instead of paying 60 euros for a couple of mediocre entrées and a poor wine, you'll pay half that outside the old city. Unfortuneagly, while the food and service will be massively better, the wine be much the same. They have a different taste in wine, and at its core, less money gets spent making that wine, and it shows.

But, I did not say Italy was the answer to all questions, I said the dining experience in general is much better than you have in the US, and I believe that to be an objectively true statement. Eat in a tourist trap in the US, the food and wine is going to be somewhere between mediocre and bad, and it's going to be more ching than if you get out of that tourist trap.

@SW, I've had occasion to stay in DC, I usually park in Dupont Circle, like the area. There are many more restaurants there, than we have in Seattle, and the overall quality of them is considerably higher. I was first there quite a while ago, and I'd say it's not getting better there either, more chains and all that, overall things are on the decline.

Keep in mind my comments were in relation to a portion of the statements Carlos made about the decline in service and quality at restaurants in the US. I don't speak for him, he may say that Crab dude has him all wrong, and maybe I do. But outside my own opinion, various polling and consumer satisfaction surveys show this opinion, that dining in the US is getting worse, is widely held. For me, satisfaction is going to come down to what I paid, what showed up for my money, and how it was served. In general, on average, the US is going to give me the worst overall experience I'm aware of, compared to any country I've been to, and that isnt just Italy, France, and the usual EU stops, it includes places like Russia, Viet Nam, etc. I'm sorry if that strikes a nerve, but its how I see it.
Old Today, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by MBNUT1
Where do you recommend in Seattle?
It really is based on what you like. I LOVE seafood, and I'm spoiled to live in Seattle, fresh and tasty options always available. A Safe bet is always Elliot's Oyster House if near Pike Place Market. Otherwise, if you're on the Eastside there are tons of other options. What type of dining do you prefer??
Old Today, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Dima
your idea is not new Stream, they had tried it on a Titanic you're old enough to remember how it worked out?
They kind of attempted something like that in Saint-Tropez, you call for restaurant reservation, they ask you if you'd be spending 10k euroes or more and if not, no reservation. They had to abandon it this year though after the ensured outrage.
On our last trip to Barbados, where I've been going for over half a century, I was introduced to a new process - "A dinner reservation, sir? Fine. Credit card number? Oh, well, we put a down-payment of US$125 against your final bill. Of course, if you cancel, or don't show up, you will not get a refund. Yes, sir, four at 7:00pm on the 12th. We look forward to seeing you and your party, sir." Extraordinary food, impeccable service. The place stays jam-packed.
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Originally Posted by crabman
The product is the heart of a business, and the S-Class is primarily a victim of standing at a place called Good-enough, and getting hit by a Max profit, product be damned, bus.

It's how you got attack doors and all the rest of it. Put good enough together in a room with profit at all cost, and you get a sub-par product every time. That's ok if you're selling spatulas to a customer that is putting cost at the highest criteria for a purchase, it's much more problematic when you're selling a high-priced luxury product no one has to have, with functionality that is below industry par for non luxury items of the same type.

But here we are... And yeah, having said all that, I think SW nailed the most pertinent causes: Times are tough, and the market segment has been in decline for years.

I personally think this isn’t about tough times, it’s more about short-term profitability over everything else. Commonality creates huge cost savings in design, logistics and production at the expense of model identity. Maybe this decision is coming back to haunt them based on the sales decline mentioned in the Reddit article.

I sure notice the similarities and would appreciate more differences.
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Originally Posted by carlosinseattle
It really is based on what you like. I LOVE seafood, and I'm spoiled to live in Seattle, fresh and tasty options always available. A Safe bet is always Elliot's Oyster House if near Pike Place Market. Otherwise, if you're on the Eastside there are tons of other options. What type of dining do you prefer??
Thanks for the recommendation. It's actually for my daughter-in-laws birthday. They live in the Central District so that should work.
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Originally Posted by MBNUT1
Thanks for the recommendation. It's actually for my daughter-in-laws birthday. They live in the Central District so that should work.
Awesome!!
There's also Blue Water Bistro (Americana and Seaffod) 10 minutes away, and/or That's Amore for Italian. That's Amore used to be my favorite restaurant in all of Seattle, the head chef bought it from the original owners around 5 years ago. Still fantastic food and you'll feel like you've been stransported back to the 60's.

I visited your fair city several times many moons ago; a bunch of my friends attended UC. I would often stop in while driving from home in Cleveland to school in Florida. It was back during the Bob Huggins and Nick Van Exel days with UC basketball...I know, I'm old...LOL

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