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I think MB really needs to improve their training. We were told that was no longer an option at all. And we do miss Magic Sky in Texas.
I almost went with Porsche this time simply due to their sales and service. I spoke with both departments at several dealerships and the knowledge of the staff at Porsche vs Mercedes these days is STAGGERING. MB dealers flat out lied to us many times. I only had one bad salesman lie to me at Porsche. The level of training between the two is amazing to see when shopping for both.
I watched this video last night and had plans to start a thread on it this morning, but @superangrypenguin beat me to it. I love my car, so much so that I bought two of them: a 2022 that got hit by a teenager that fell asleep and plowed into the back of it on I285; cost over $30,000 to fix it, and then the replacement, my current 2023 model. This forum is rife with people that either love their S580 or hate them. Obviously, I'm in the first category of folks. But, I'm also well aware that this is my first S Class. I've owned four Mercedes in less than 10 years: a 2016 CLS400, then a 2018 E63, then two S580s. They've all been great cars. But, if I had the experience of owning an S Class from a decade ago, as the Car Nut did, my perspective and love for my current car might be different. My current car has about every bell and whistle available, and I look forward to getting into and driving my car every time. It's a classy car, and drives and rides like no other car I've ever owned. When I watched last night's video, I laughed out loud several times. There's a reason he has so many YouTube followers; he gives his subscribers and viewers what they want.
Very true, and if you look at the comments to his video he gave lots of joy to people who never would be able to buy such a car in the first place lol. Now they can pretend they don't buy one because its garbage...instead of because they could never afford one.
Personally having owned both a W222 and a W223 I find the hatred of the 223 odd. Its kind of like the LS460 in the Lexus world. I'm a big poster on ClubLexus and LS430 guys HATE the LS460, until they eventually get one and then for the most part they pretend they never hated it. Having had both an LS430 and two LS460s, I don't really get what it is they hate so much. Yeah both it and the W223are a little step back in quality from their predecessors but they are way more alike than they are different. Its like the new car murdered the owners of the old cars dogs or something. From a ride and drive perspective both are incrementally better than the cars they replaced...interiors aren't quite as nice but its a tradeoff.
Oh man this last video shows the WORST LEXUS decision EVER! The (duh duh duuuhh) HATED TRACKPAD! What were they thinking!??
Respectfully these videos are disingenuous at best. Does anyone really believe that anyone can disassemble this car, or any car for that matter, with one hand by force? Come on. I have a 2022 LS that I bought with 200 miles. I now have 97k miles. No rattles, creaks, leaks, or other issues. I haven't changed the brake pads once and there's still life left on the pads. We live in the greatest country in the world where we have the option to chose from some of the best cars in the world. Enjoy your cars while being aware of their shortcomings.
I think MB really needs to improve their training. We were told that was no longer an option at all. And we do miss Magic Sky in Texas.
I almost went with Porsche this time simply due to their sales and service. I spoke with both departments at several dealerships and the knowledge of the staff at Porsche vs Mercedes these days is STAGGERING. MB dealers flat out lied to us many times. I only had one bad salesman lie to me at Porsche. The level of training between the two is amazing to see when shopping for both.
I hope they turn it around.
This isn't unique to Mercedes. I have found most dealers and car salespeople are totally clueless about the cars they sell, I have never met one that knows anywhere near what I know about any car I am looking at. Porsche dealers work with a lot of enthusiasts and that process is more detailed in that many buyers spec and order their cars and it makes sense they would be better. Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus...they're less knowledgable than people who work at BestBuy.
I keep my sunshade closed on the roof all the time, so those magic sky roofs don't do anything for me. What really bugs me is companies removing sunshades from glass roofs.
2018 S450 4Matic, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2010 GL350 (sold)
Originally Posted by SW20S
I also loved the wheel in my W222. Issue with COMAND for me is how slow it is, it would take a full 1-2 seconds for it to respond to an input. MBUX is much faster. Interesting about Carplay. I don't use Carplay much in the 223 because the MBUX is much better, and I play audio through the onboard lossless connections to Tidal, Apple Music etc because of the dramatically better audio quality. So I really only use CarPlay for messaging and the phone and then for the occasional check in with Waze etc. In my 222 I exclusively used CarPlay.
Strange the COMMAND in our 2018 S450 is very fast. No delays ever. That was the facelift year so maybe they improved the CPU.
Okay so in the 2023 EQS I’m noticing the same thing. Using CarPlay far less. I do still ask Siri (really ChatGPT) a lot of really dumb questions, but mostly use MBUX now.
Will be super happy when Apple allows Grok. It’s a lot better and a hell of a lot more fun. ChatGPT is way too politically correct for me, and I have a personal hatred of Sam Altman.
Respectfully these videos are disingenuous at best. Does anyone really believe that anyone can disassemble this car, or any car for that matter, with one hand by force? Come on. I have a 2022 LS that I bought with 200 miles. I now have 97k miles. No rattles, creaks, leaks, or other issues. I haven't changed the brake pads once and there's still life left on the pads. We live in the greatest country in the world where we have the option to chose from some of the best cars in the world. Enjoy your cars while being aware of their shortcomings.
Oh a video that can be disingenuous? I can't imagine lol. Be aware of your own car's shortcomings...
Having taken the dashes apart in Lexus vehicles, absolutely I believe it. Try it. My S580 is also much better than the one shown in the video above. You must be a super gentle driver because I never got more than 15k miles on any of my LSs without front rotors warped so bad I had to replace them with aftermarket. Your lack of creaks and rattles have a lot to with how you care for the car, that car in the video has had a hard life, mine has been babied as I am sure your LS500 has been too.
But yes, no screws in the dash of a Lexus LS, its all clips that can be pulled apart by hand. My S580 has 8 screws just in the console top, Whole dash face is held on with screws, the gauge pod is held in with screws. The other issue with clips vs screws is every time you take the Lexus apart you introduce creaks and rattles because you weaken the clips, You can take the Mercedes apart over and over and it doesn't hurt it at all.
LS500 is the car that drove me away from Lexus. Glad you like it but that car is not in the same category as these cars at all anymore unfortunately. Loved my 400, 430 and my 460s but the 500 is a no go. I even tried one again in between my W222 and my W223 and even my longtime Lexus salesperson couldn't believe I would even consider it.
Strange the COMMAND in our 2018 S450 is very fast. No delays ever. That was the facelift year so maybe they improved the CPU.
Okay so in the 2023 EQS I’m noticing the same thing. Using CarPlay far less. I do still ask Siri (really ChatGPT) a lot of really dumb questions, but mostly use MBUX now.
Will be super happy when Apple allows Grok. It’s a lot better and a hell of a lot more fun. ChatGPT is way too politically correct for me, and I have a personal hatred of Sam Altman.
Its just an old system, the MBUX systems have much faster processors.
2018 S450 4Matic, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2010 GL350 (sold)
Originally Posted by SW20S
I keep my sunshade closed on the roof all the time, so those magic sky roofs don't do anything for me. What really bugs me is companies removing sunshades from glass roofs.
That’s the beauty of Magic Sky. We never close the sunshade. No need to do that. Magic Sky is always on even when the car is off. Combined with IR glazing, it’s great for Texas. It’s the perfect solution. I’m going to see if I can duplicate that on the EQS permanently.
TELSA! Even LUCID! My God — how do they not know about the Texas SUN!?? They are each in Texas and Arizona!!!!! I could rant a lot about this one thing. However, I will say that the Lucid sun shades are damn cool (pun intended). Tesla is IMO just a terrible car with great tech. Lucid is the opposite.
Porsche dealers REALLY impressed me. Now I’m going to sell both my Harley’s to free up garage room for a 911 or 718 cabriolet to sit next to the EQS. That’s partly because of how much Porsche impressed me and partly due to having cancer and realizing life can be short. Cancer free now but a huge wake up call.
Oh a video that can be disingenuous? I can't imagine lol. Who's refusing to accept someone else's viewpoint now?
Having taken the dashes apart in Lexus vehicles, absolutely I believe it. Try it. My S580 is also much better than the one shown in the video above. You must be a super gentle driver because I never got more than 15k miles on any of my LSs without front rotors warped so bad I had to replace them with aftermarket. Your lack of creaks and rattles have a lot to with how you care for the car, that car in the video has had a hard life, mine has been babied as I am sure your LS500 has been too.
LS500 is the car that drove me away from Lexus. Glad you like it but that car is not in the same category as these cars at all anymore unfortunately. Loved my 400, 430 and my 460s but the 500 is a no go. I even tried one again in between my W222 and my W223 and even my longtime Lexus salesperson couldn't believe I would even consider it.
S Class are great cars. I almost bought one. Due to my driving habits I had to pass. But the luxury sedan market has seemingly decreased in popularity. I hope that the S Class, LS, and A8 can go back to what made them great and recapture the magic that lured enthusiasts.
S Class are great cars. I almost bought one. Due to my driving habits I had to pass. But the luxury sedan market has seemingly decreased in popularity. I hope that the S Class, LS, and A8 can go back to what made them great and recapture the magic that lured enthusiasts.
It has, and I think we are seeing the result of manufacturers just focusing on them less. Like I said before, 5 years ago you had all incredible choices with no drawbacks really and it was very hard to choose, I remember when I got my S560, I was literally torn between the S560, A8 60 (with the V8 which sadly is gone) and the 750. There was no bad choice there. Today its not that way, everything has a significant drawback. The interior of the S580 is the drawback. Exterior of the 7 Series is the drawback, lack of a V8 and the ancient design of the A8 is the drawback.
2018 S450 4Matic, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2010 GL350 (sold)
Originally Posted by Mob4life
S Class are great cars. I almost bought one. Due to my driving habits I had to pass. But the luxury sedan market has seemingly decreased in popularity. I hope that the S Class, LS, and A8 can go back to what made them great and recapture the magic that lured enthusiasts.
2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, 2024 BMW I7 xDrive60
When MBUSA bought back my loaded 2022 S580, I did the drop off at Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach and I needed a daily driver immediately. Someone had just traded in a fairly basic 2020 S560 with only 8,800 miles on it, so I grabbed it. When I got in the S560, it was as if I had just come home from a nightmarish trip. The car felt just SO RIGHT. Everything was where it should be and everything WORKED! In my opinion, the W222 was a magnificent car—engineered & screwed together just so well! The W223 pales in comparison—but hey, that’s just me.
2018 S450 4Matic, 2021 Toyota Tundra, 2010 GL350 (sold)
Originally Posted by Streamliner
When MBUSA bought back my loaded 2022 S580, I did the drop off at Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach and I needed a daily driver immediately. Someone had just traded in a fairly basic 2020 S560 with only 8,800 miles on it, so I grabbed it. When I got in the S560, it was as if I had just come home from a nightmarish trip. The car felt just SO RIGHT. Everything was where it should be and everything WORKED! In my opinion, the W222 was a magnificent car—engineered & screwed together just so well! The W223 pales in comparison—but hey, that’s just me.
I've had both cars too and while I agree that the W222 was put together better inside, overall I prefer my W223. Some of that may be age, I'm only 44. I think the W222 was overall better looking, but I also like the 223. My wife much prefers the smoother less frumpy looks of the 223 as do other younger people I know. The interior of the 223 has a much younger more tech forward vibe, and while I prefer the more old school layout and look (my likes are much older than my age) my wife LOVES the interior of the 223 and disliked the 222. As she used to say when she was in the 222 she always felt like she was driving her fathers car, where the 223 she enjoys driving.
223 rides better and is quieter, and while the interior is a step back in quality weirdly the exterior fit and finish is better in the 223, paint is nicer, details are better finished. Base Burmester audio is dramatically better in the 223. Tech is also much better in the 223.
So overall for me the better ride and drive and the better audio system and tech improve my enjoyment of the car beyond what the lesser interior build quality takes away.
When MBUSA bought back my loaded 2022 S580, I did the drop off at Fletcher Jones in Newport Beach and I needed a daily driver immediately. Someone had just traded in a fairly basic 2020 S560 with only 8,800 miles on it, so I grabbed it. When I got in the S560, it was as if I had just come home from a nightmarish trip. The car felt just SO RIGHT. Everything was where it should be and everything WORKED! In my opinion, the W222 was a magnificent car—engineered & screwed together just so well! The W223 pales in comparison—but hey, that’s just me.
Originally Posted by bdunn
YOU ARE SO WRONG!
it is most definitely not just you
Surely not just you. I've been trading my daily at a rate of once per year, or 1.5 years, for the past 15 years. Was slightly slower before that, but still much much faster that the average person. There are only 2 cars that I purchased twice or more... It was the W222 (facelift and pre-facelift) and the X7 (3 times, pre-LCI and LCI). Otherwise, I never ever felt the desire to own similar car or generation twice. This is how much I thought the W222 is an awesome car all around. Am ready to experience almost any option, firm and rough rides, fast and slow, EV and ICE, great looking and not good looking ones interiors/exteriors, but would never opt for low quality or build quality issues. I grew up as a kid taking the dashboard, seats and side door panels off of my father's Kia decades ago and stuffing it with foam to improve the creaks, rattles and firmness; am not willing to track plastics and creaks/rattles in 2025 if am investing 100-200K on it (it's embarrassing for the brand at this point). My father switched to Honda Accord later at that time, and I can't tell you how relieved I was by then as a kid. All of that stayed with me as I grew up... and It doesn't bother me much today when I sit in share rides and ubers with creaks, but it bothers me a lot even in videos to see flagships with the same symptoms all of a sudden now after decades of good proper engineering (why now?).. plastics plastics plastics; fine but at least put them well together or hire a few people from Hyundai (I rent their SUVs and they are free from any creaks yet loaded with plastics; it's not that hard).
Surely not just you. I've been trading my daily at a rate of once per year, or 1.5 years, for the past 15 years. Was slightly slower before that, but still much much faster that the average person. There are only 2 cars that I purchased twice or more... It was the W222 (facelift and pre-facelift) and the X7 (3 times, pre-LCI and LCI). Otherwise, I never ever felt the desire to own similar car or generation twice. This is how much I thought the W222 is an awesome car all around. Am ready to experience almost any option, firm and rough rides, fast and slow, EV and ICE, great looking and not good looking ones interiors/exteriors, but would never opt for low quality or build quality issues. I grew up as a kid taking the dashboard, seats and side door panels off of my father's Kia decades ago and stuffing it with foam to improve the creaks, rattles and firmness; am not willing to track plastics and creaks/rattles in 2025 if am investing 100-200K on it (it's embarrassing for the brand at this point). My father switched to Honda Accord later at that time, and I can't tell you how relieved I was by then as a kid. All of that stayed with me as I grew up... and It doesn't bother me much today when I sit in share rides and ubers with creaks, but it bothers me a lot even in videos to see flagships with the same symptoms all of a sudden now after decades of good proper engineering (why now?).. plastics plastics plastics; fine but at least put them well together or hire a few people from Hyundai (I rent their SUVs and they are free from any creaks yet loaded with plastics; it's not that hard).
Well put. It's so hard for me not to chime in on this thread but probably best before it just dies into the typical fanboy crap (lol).
I have never leased a car in my entire life until now, 2025. There's no point owning cars anymore. They've become either dishwashers (electric cars) or a smorgasbord of ICE/EV (PHEVs et al) crap that have become en****ified (cue W223). When I sold my Ghost I swore never again would I buy a Rolls Royce but it became clear to me that well built cars no longer are made by volume OEMs.
The full size Range Rover is the first car I've leased and the Phantom will be the 2nd. I'm done owning cars. I hate where the car industry is going. Frankly, I think all of us were/are S class fan boys (maybe not the present gen) but IMHO apologizing for the incredibly poor interior of the S class doesn't help anyone. It's such a *******ization of what the S class stood for.
Last edited by superangrypenguin; Nov 11, 2025 at 11:05 AM.
WHOLE-HEARTEDLY AGREE! They took out things and even options on the W223 that were on the W222 and changed things that made the W223 feel cheap. NO WAY were we buying one of those. I did get an EQS 580 Pinnacle as it had some of the same cheap things but it also had some fun things - like being electric. I finally decided that a very gently used EQS was a great deal better than the Porsche or Lucid, but I wish they had made better choices.
The Car Care Nut is great IMO. Even during the years he was giving glowing reviews on Toyotas, he was driving an S-Class (W221) home every day. He made a video about that once. But you know he’s right about Toyota, at least past Toyotas. I have a 21 Tundra and won’t be selling it. It requires nothing and is as bulletproof as they come. Someday I might even change the oil. (Joking but not much)
The EQS may have similar issues, but the tech is great and at least gets you something else in exchange to the materials and build quality.
Agree also about Cr Care Nut. His review of the new LS also pointed out some issues, but he also pointed out a dozen of positive comments that were all fair and accurate.
His review of the Wagonner that i watched 1-2 weeks was also great. It's an SUV that's at the borderline of our list, and he had a lot of good things to share.
He is critical in his reviews, and I found him mostly right which is all what matters to me as the consumer. He does NOT JUST VOICE HIS "OPINION", he actually shows you visually what he is referring to and proves to you. I'd rather watch a YouTuber that points out all the critical things about a car, than a reviewer that glorifies the review for no reason.
Originally Posted by Mob4life
I believe this is the first video on YouTube that has examined this car as thoroughly as this mechanic. He looks at it from a mechanics point of view. He reviewed the LS500 and was critical. Although he praised the LS build quality, he criticized it. The S Class isn't a well built car mechanically. Anyone that wants to debate that is drinking the Kool Aid. Just be objective and admit it's lacking. It's OK to just enjoy your car knowing it was never meant to be reliable and last long.
Not only that, he is likely one of a very few youtubers that actually examines cars up to this level. His review of the LS500 was awesome and despite his love to the Lexus brand, he pointed out all the good and bad aspects, but mostly his review for the last LS generation was on the positive side.
Kool Aid comment is spot on; shouldn't be hard to be objective, but some folks just can't
Originally Posted by Frenetic
The biggest issue with the interior is that the design (and I assume material) is essentially identical across the entire lineup. I’m sure it saves Mercedes a ton of money but how nice of materials can you add to the S class for the screen bezel for example, without it affecting the C class price? This commonality really cheapens the higher-end models. But Mercedes isn’t alone in doing this and obviously it’s not keeping people from buying them I presume (we all got it anyways). But I agree, that the interior material and quality is too similar to the other models and feels really cheap for the S class.
Fully agree. The always used to look similar, but not as similar as nowadays. The similarity doesn't bother me much, and it's a trend now in the auto industry, but the fitment and attention to detail is what bothers me. When there is too much plastic around, the materials as you assumed are definitely the same. Leather is just one part of the equation. I can take plastic, but at least put the parts well together.
Well put. It's so hard for me not to chime in on this thread but probably best before it just dies into the typical fanboy crap (lol).
I have never leased a car in my entire life until now, 2025. There's no point owning cars anymore. They've become either dishwashers (electric cars) or a smorgasbord of ICE/EV (PHEVs et al) crap that have become en****ified (cue W223). When I sold my Ghost I swore never again would I buy a Rolls Royce but it became clear to me that well built cars no longer are made by volume OEMs.
The full size Range Rover is the first car I've leased and the Phantom will be the 2nd. I'm done owning cars. I hate where the car industry is going. Frankly, I think all of us were/are S class fan boys (maybe not the present gen) but IMHO apologizing for the incredibly poor interior of the S class doesn't help anyone. It's such a *******ization of what the S class stood for.
Totally agree there is no point in owning cars anymore. I have leased many cars and have no interest in owning a car in this day and age. Drive em for 3 years for a set cost and on to the next one.
And again, those of us who are happy with our cars are not "fanboys" lol. We disagree with you, gotta deal with it. As an owner of this car a lot of this negativity is just nonsense. Its a great car. Lots of you people who don't own them just like to complain about it for some reason.
He does NOT JUST VOICE HIS "OPINION", he actually shows you visually what he is referring to and proves to you.
It is absolutely just his opinion. I will share a comment from another forum on the same video from someone on ClubLexus who is also a mechanic and has owned Lexus and german vehicles:
Wtf is he on about with airmatic and control arms failures?
You mean the systems that are cheaper to replace and work on than in any "comparable" Lexus/Toyota that have been STANDARD for over 20 years with decades of improvements backing them up?
Interior nosies sure, but that's always been Mercedes vs Lexus/Audi in terms of the interior bits being nailed down. Big woop, spend 2-5 hours pulling everything and silencing it. I had to on ALL my LSs, I didn't have to do it on only two cars I've owned.....take a guess what they are lol!
But that's what I really don't understand, the 221 is a solved problem with air suspension and arms. The arms will get you 90-120k miles and the air is THE cheapest to live with by far.
Block coating wise we have many engines using it or similar without major problems for a while now, I personally prefer iron liners or Alusil full castings but there hasn't been any issues.
So two mechanics who disagree.
Originally Posted by S_W222
His review of the LS500 was awesome and despite his love to the Lexus brand, he pointed out all the good and bad aspects, but mostly his review for the last LS generation was on the positive side.
Did we watch the same LS500 video? He said it broke his heart and that you shouldn't buy it. He pointed out plenty of positive things about the W223 also you just have decided you hate the W223 for some reason so you clearly missed those lol
I think that these cars are now built to be leased and not owned and that is reflected in Car Care Nuts video.
People who lease cars have a very different perspective than those who (used to) buy them. It's now about the latest and greatest tech, not "Is this thing going to go the distance (which now would be 200K+ miles) with proper care and maintenance?" The later is what the deal was when you bought a Mercedes in the past. Were they flawless in that regard? Certainly not, but that was the implicit contract when you bought one.
When you sat in a Mercedes, it was a special place, that set the standard for quality regardless of arena. Go sit in a 1971 280SE 3.5 cabriolet to see what I am talking about. There is a reason those cars cost a fortune in the current disposable culture. This is what the Car Care Nut is saying. He isn't saying the W223 is a bad car (in fact he says it drives beautifully), he is saying it isn't built with the same mindset as the past while acknowledging that there were bumps in the road like the W220 along the way (which I think is also a great car to drive, if properly sorted).
Focus on longevity, engineering, safety and build quality is what led to 65 years of ownership of the marque in my family.
I agree with that, but thats been the case for a long time, this isn't a new phenomenon. Thats one of the reasons why I went to Mercedes from Lexus, I was leasing and the main benefit of a Lexus was lost on me because I was turning them in at 50k miles. I don't agree though that Amd wasn't saying its a bad car, he unloaded on the car and a lot of his criticisms frankly were over the top.
I will say though, when I sit in my S580 its a "wow" for me still, I really enjoy the car a lot. Its not perfect, but its still a very special car.
W220s are also great cars. I have a client that has a 2000 model he daily drives. Thats how I met my independent mechanic, a referral from him.
There is a 9 figure net worth guy, who was visiting one of his girlfriends in our neighborhood is still driving his 200K+ miles 2000 S500. I asked him about it, and he said it still drove great.
This guy has plenty of cash too. I always thought the W220s were great looking cars, and much more appealing than the W140. The W140 was "more car" but it was so huge looking and felt so old compared to the 220.
This guy has plenty of cash too. I always thought the W220s were great looking cars, and much more appealing than the W140. The W140 was "more car" but it was so huge looking and felt so old compared to the 220.
100% agreement. The W140 was the one Mercedes I never had the least bit of interest in owning.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
