I am posting this here, merely as a discussion point. MB had horrible issues with the W223 when first launched and for at least two years into production. The same was true for the R232 SL’s and other post MY20 new model introductions. This new CLA220 Hybrid appears to show that MB is STILL bringing new models to market without proper testing & sorting. This is really a sad state of affairs for MB. Will they EVER get back to “The Best or Nothing,” or have they just thrown in the towel?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ing%20Audience

 

Well, the all-screen interior design is a significant disappointment to begin with. I hope Mercedes-Benz doesn't roll this out across their entire lineup. The classic dash and interior design were reasons that many of us were drawn to the brand in the first place.

Back to the article.. the issue I see is that Car and Driver complaints go beyond aesthetics and build quality. They are referring to primary derivability concerns, which even consumers coming from lower-tier brands would notice. While I don't have an answer to your questions, my own question is: what will does typically take for big a corporate like Mbenz to do a major overhaul for their engineering dept and get back on track, because this is not the only or first new car launch that didn't go well. In recent years, Mbenz couldn't get their own 9G transmission to work well with their engines even after years of different software/adaptation service bulletins, so am not surprised they are also struggling with the electric+gas hybrid combo.

 

Auto manufacturers make money off of their cheaper, high-volume bread and butter models.
I can't blame MB for releasing a more accessible model for profits.
But boy, that thing looks ugly. Same with the BMW 2 series (FWD architecture).
I drove the 1st gen CLA as a rental in Mexico almost a decade ago, and I wasn't impressed with the way it drove.
The F30 320i was way better.

The C-class is a handsome car with good proportions but the FWD platforms just look awful.
I couldn't care less how that thing drives.
As with SW20S, I'm not loyal to one brand. I'll move to a different brand/model when MB goes down the ****ter.

 

It will iron.. out.. maybe


That said, I am still very optimistic about the facelift W223.

 

In this article I mostly see the general struggle of car manufacturers having to use electric motivation more and more in order to meet ever more stringent targets. This car is technically a mild hybrid and mild hybrid by definition can't drive on electric power alone. 48V just doesn't deliver enough oomph as evidenced in the e-motor only having 30 hp. MB seems to attempt something with this car that the technology isn't really meant for. Ultimately they have to meet the fleet average or they continue to pay billions in fines.

Mild hybrid can be good if implemented properly. I made that experience recently on a trip to Europe where I had a Golf station wagon. It also had a 1.5l engine assisted by an e-motor and by choice a manual 6-speed transmission. This car was a surprising delight to drive. I could feel how the e-motor made it punchier than the 1.5l engine by itself could. It filled in torque and virtually eliminated the awful turbo lag that these small engines usually have. I was quite surprised by it. It also got 500 miles on a tank and the range didn't drop too much even driving at high speed on the German Autobahn. I drove 4000 miles in a month while traveling around Europe. I was just thinking if I had to do this with an EV, I'd spent way too much time at public charging stations vs. a quick gas station stop every 500 or so miles.

 

Not sure why this is in the W223 forum...

To me this doesn't read like there are "issues", its just the model is what it is, which is a crappy entry level FWD MB with a 48v system that is trying to be something it isn't. These FWD MB models have always been pretty awful, I actually even refuse them as loaners...

 

I agree. A lot of today’s drivetrain complexity is being driven less by “making the car better” and more by meeting the new emissions and fleet-average efficiency goals. The downside is that consumers (that's us), we often end up paying more for the car because of all of that... yet it adds complexity and lower long-term reliability risk.

Personally, I’m not a fan of mild-hybrid systems. especially whenOEMs try to stretch 48V architectures into roles they weren’t really meant to fill (exactly what Mbenz did in this case for the CLA, which I assume will apply to the rest of the lineup too). I do agree that a well-executed mild hybrid (could) improve drivability (torque, smoother starts, better stop/start behavior with AC staying at full power), but it still adds components for very negligible real-world benefit compared to going one full step in either direction: keep it simple with a conventional full ICE, or go to the other extreme with PHEV or full EV. Mild-hybid is not good compared to the either of these two extremes. ICE is better and full EV or PHEV is better too than mild-hybrid.

On my GLS, I’ll admit the 48V system is nice, but if I’m weighing the tradeoffs, I’d still prefer not to have the 48V mild-hybrid system at all like in my W222.

And it’s not just mild hybrids... even the regular ICE platforms have become packed with additional emissions components that we no longer notice like the EVAP system. Each item may make sense in isolation, but the cumulative effect of all of these systems together is an ICE drivetrain is just making ICE more and more complicated, nd harder to justify owning long-term. If all of this continues at the pace, in 10 years ro so ICE drivetrains will become so over-engineered that they stop making sense for any owner, which is probably already happening now. How many ICE owners feel confident owning the car for 10 years just considering the engine part of it?

I get the idea of regulations and emissions, but it’s also very frustrating when a large share of transportation sector emissions actually comes from commercial fleets. Demand EVs for ubers and Taxis, and some emissions regulations for the commercial heavy-trucks sector, and let the rest of us enjoy reliable ICE cars.

 

Having had the same engine in two S Classes, one with the 48v and one without, I don't see any negatives from the 48v system, only positives from a driving standpoint. Only downside is potential issues with longevity, and as someone who leases anyways I don't really care.

 

Same here with the GLS, no issues (so far) but I wouldn't trust it for 10 years the same way I would if it didn't have the 48V mild-hybrid.
The issue with the CLA, it is just stretching the technology beyond its limit that now it's also impacting the short-term ownership or drivability. The question is: Why would a reputable manufacturer like Mbenz do that...

 

I highly doubt if I will ever own any car for 10 years anyways...

MB is doing it because they are trying to bring something to the market that meets all of the efficiency mandates in as inexpensive a way possible.

 

I agree completely. We actually currently own a 21 year old car. It's my wife's car. She doesn't drive very much, so it never made sense to replace it with something new. It only just recently passed 50k miles. No complicated drivetrain or electronic system. Simple naturally aspirated 4-cylinder engine paired with a 4-speed automatic with lockup clutch torque converter. Only issues are a couple of the speakers have static occasionally as the wiring has deteriorated and some of the plastic in the interior has deteriorated due to the age. All it needs is an oil and filter change once a year. I use it for around town errands that need a car and we use as our everyday beater when I don't wanna take the AMG besides my wife using it for her occasional trips she has to do. I highly doubt my AMG will run as problem free at age 21 should I keep it that long and it doesn't have any complicated electrification yet.

One individual doesn't have to keep a car this long, but since we are trying to save the planet, making cars so complicated that they have to be thrown away within only a few years isn't really helping with this. If I remember correctly, the average age of cars on the roads today in the USA is 12 years. It's been steadily increasing with car prices going up. So while the first owner may only keep if for 3 years if they lease, it will go on to other owners and is supposed to spend many more years on the road.

 

Not only will the AMG not run as problem-free at age 21, even in the short term, the chances that these cars will be as reliable as older ones are zmall. Other models and brands have managed to improve reliability despite the complexity, and they have made a positive turnaround. However, Mbenz with decisions like that for the CLA and others is taking the opposite approach. It has mostly produced reliable cars in the past and was known for that, and it is switching to a new norm of long-term reliability issues that can also occasionally impact the short-term ownership experience for some people. Again the question is, what does it take for a large corporate like this to overhaul it’s engineering dept or decision makers behind all of this.

 

You just answered your own question a couple of posts above...

 

MB hasn't had a reputation for building reliable cars for a long, long time sadly.

 

I'd say for starters a leadership team made up of car guys instead of sales and marketing guys. MB has frankly started to go downhill when Dieter Zetsche decided to retire. He was an engineer who worked his way up to chairman. Ola is a marketing and sales guy and he's been filling his direct report positions with other marketing and sales guys. AMG has gone through CEOs like underwear since Tobias Moers left over his objection to put a 4-cylinder hybrid powertrain into the current C63, which as expected was a major flop. I've read good things about the current AMG CEO, but he got promoted and is leaving the post after only 3 years. They just announced the replacement. A guy from Porsche, but he isn't starting until July '26. Maybe bringing in some Porsche talent/culture may turn things around, although Porsche isn't doing well, either these days.

 

Since you mentioned this, I am surprised this UK reviewer said it rode like a Rolls-Royce. (It is the pure electric version though)

 

Having been to Denmark and driven there, the roads are very smooth, so factor that in. Probably should watch another review done in the UK for comparison, as the roads in the UK are as terrible as they are in many places in the US. But the electric version of the CLA is probably better. For starters it does away with FWD and is proper RWD or AWD depending on the trim. It does start to feel like the manufacturers are throwing in hybrid versions just to appease a certain group of customers, but the hybrid version feels like a second class citizen as it brings back the downsides of these small platforms. I agree that these FWD entry level cars have always been quite terrible. Not just the CLA, but also the Audi A3. The BMW 2-series is another story, though. Used to be FWD, but is now RWD and the M2 is one of the best M cars. Both Audi and AMG had to add trick differentials to the performance models of these to add more acceptable dynamics, but the end result is frankly clinical and artificial. The CLA/A 45 has long been the worst AMG. I've had a CLA once as a loaner and have avoided them since. Back when I had my Audi, I often got an A3 as a loaner, but the quattro version drove at least somewhat better. The FWD version was pretty terrible, though.

 

If you've tracked this youtuber and most of his other videos, he tends to only focus and report the "good" stuff. Which is great; we need this optimism sometimes in our life. When he does that, he tends to glorifies the cars quite a bit. A good example is his Rolls-Royce comment.. I mean come on lol.

I like YouTube review videos, and I use that to get to know the car a bit more. But until I experience the car myself, it's hard for me to believe or relate to any of what most YouTubers say. It's disappointing because they drove cars more than most of us.

This car with full EV drivetrain looks like a very well executed car though. It's good compared to the Tesla Model 3 for example. It has the big screens that those buyers are okay with, and even bigger screens, but most existing Mbenz buyers still prefer a more classy dash even in entry models (just my guess). Good job with the seats by the way, and going with the Burmester sound system. At this point every entry model Mbenz/german car should have a premium sound system as standard.

 

The RWD 2-series coupe is a solid platform, yes.
But they have this abomination called the 'Gran Coupe' that is still FWD-based (FWD & AWD) looks as bad as the CLA.

 

If you think about it, it jibes. The C&D article in the OP said the chassis was great, what let it down was the powertrain. Replace the problematic powertrain with a smooth EV powertrain and you have a much better car.

 

Thanks all 3, all well said and answers my question on how the EV CLA did so well compared to the hybrid with an ICE.

 

Found this video in my feed, this was scary that it did an emergency stop like that. I mean, we can look at it both ways, emegency stop could mitigate the front end collison in real life but what if the cars at back didn't stop quick enough or doesn't have auto collision braking assist systems or doesn't have the advanced systems MBs have, wouldn't that cause a collison?
As for a forum member asked why this thread was started by OP in the W223, I have no answer however I have a guess. There is no sub-forum for the new model yet: https://mbworld.org/forums/suggestio...ic-please.html

 

I am also not sure why it did an emergency stop instead of a rolling stop like the past MB systems.

Edit: From the video, the rear end collision did happen

Edit2: I just finished the video, there was a second occurrence they didn't capture. MB's statement was saying it was the pedestrian AEB activating, system is functioning normally.

Edit3: Check the comment section in the video as well.

 

Well, this thread has certainly morphed, but then I guess they all do. The point I was trying to make by starting it, is that MB continues to bring new models to market without proper sorting of all the rough edges—some minor & irritating, others significant and potentially very costly in dollars, wasted time and frustration. It’s bad enough on a lowly CLA, but as we have seen in recent years, similar issues are being overlooked all the way up into some of their top models. Some folks who buy the low end models are future S Class level customers. A bad experience with their first MB can put them off the brand for good. Can we even imagine what happens to the poor souls who buy these vehicles used without a solid warranty in place?

 

I cannot remember if it was my 2018 or my first 2020 S560, but one of those cars performed full on, panic stops for absolutely no apparent reason, scaring the hell out of me, THREE TIMES, over a period of several months. MB came back with “system is operating as designed.” My 2022 S580 did it twice. All incidents were on wide open roadways with no other vehicles, pedestrians or animals within perhaps 100+ feet of my car.

To be fair, my current BMW I7 has slammed on the brakes once, for no apparent reason, but only for a split second, not bringing the car to a full stop.