Ferri

To paraphrase Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged," it is only when you deal with pure science that you seek the absolute truth (or mathematical probability, in this case). In applied settings, many other factors come into considerations, not least of which the human factor. Then, something other than mathematical probability is asked for. So, I don't see how your probabilities, or even your experiences, are enough to disprove the other guy's conclusions which seem based, to plenty of evidence, in his real world observations. Short of videos, how else can anyone in internet prove they are legit???

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

I just love it when someone waxes philosophical when they haven't read the thread. So I'm going to make sure the importants stuff is in big letters for everybody. Akademiks realized a few posts ago that while he was talking about his experiences with his SL600 when we were talking about the S600 instead.

E55AMGGG04

Hey I replied to one of ur preious posts on the kill section. I was wondering if you would like to have a freindly run with my stock E55. I'm actually in rockaway nj right now but with my infiniti. Let me know so I can bring the 55 1 day. I would like to see that 600 in action if your up for it .

Carl Lassiter

The above post is classic proof that every day the MB-brand gets closer and closer to the stereotypes long associated with BMW.

Akademiks

Wrong. I've known the entire time; the only reason I was speaking on the issue is because I thought they (S & SL) were even in performance.

Thericker

This thread got me curious as to just what the heavy Stock S600 can do down the 1320' w/all that pesky TQ (w/Drag Rad's to properly harness that power) by board member here...

http://www.dragtimes.com/Mercedes-Be...lip-11391.html

1/4 Mile ET: 11.972
1/4 Mile MPH: 114.700
1/8 Mile ET: 7.709
1/8 Mile MPH: 91.080
0-60 Foot ET: 1.755
Temperature F: 50.0
Density Altitude (DA): DA Calculator
Timeslip Scan:
Car Make: Mercedes-Benz
Car Model: S600
Car Type: Designo
Car Year: 2003
Driver: Stephen F. Selden

TMC M5

I think it would be more valuable to look at the 1/8 mile trap vs the 1/4 mile trap as a proxy for a highway run. Steve's S600 picks up 23.7mph over that distance.

Here are two runs on dragtimes for some stock M5's:

1/4 Mile ET: 12.301
1/4 Mile MPH: 115.810
1/8 Mile ET: 8.022
1/8 Mile MPH: 90.740
0-60 Foot ET: 1.860
Temperature F: 0.0
Car Make: BMW
Car Model: M5
Car Year: 2006
Driver: Mr. Vroom

1/4 Mile ET: 12.992
1/4 Mile MPH: 116.360
1/8 Mile ET: 8.716
1/8 Mile MPH: 90.740
0-60 Foot ET: 2.460
Temperature F: 65.0
Car Make: BMW
Car Model: M5
Car Year: 2006
Driver: Erol Buyuk

You will notice that both M5's pick up 25+mph over the same distance. Granted, most races don't start at 90mph and end 115mph, this is just an academic exercise to demonstrate the M5's ability to move above 100mph. The S600 is no slouch...but it is hard for it in stock form to overcome the gearing and weight disadvantages on a freeway run. From a dig, my money is on the S600 (especially with drag radials).

Tom

Thericker

Totally agree, I didn't mean to post the 1/4 mile data as direct comparo to street frwy roll-on, I already agreed the M5 would/should take S600 in that venue

Edit: Seems I misspoke, after researching Dragtimes the M5 isn't Trapping 117+ in stock form, the lighter M6 is...

http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-M6-Timeslip-16499.html

1/4 Mile ET: 12.323
1/4 Mile MPH: 117.190
1/8 Mile ET: 8.134
1/8 Mile MPH: 92.940
0-60 Foot ET: 2.068
Temperature F: 52.0
Density Altitude (DA): -332 feet
Timeslip Scan:
Car Make: BMW
Car Model: M6
Car Type:
Car Year: 2008
Driver: Ned Cejaj

M5 is averaging 115+ in completely stock form...

TMC M5

I didn't take it that way...your post made me think of a way to apply the 1/4 mile information to the freeway scenario.

Tom

TopEndS62

FYI
Driving and understanding the conventional 6-speed, gives the driver a better concept of how to operate the SMGIII. Trust me its not all gas ad go. It does require a bit of skill. Not all E60 M5 owners do not know how to properly operate their cars...

ItalianStallion

Driving stick is not as amazing a feat as everyone makes it. It's just a simple technique for racing (keep gas pedal floored, quickly hit the clutch and grab next gear, depress clutch) and once you learn it, it's a piece of cake. SMG also uses a bit of technique because you have to know how the car reacts. To make the M5 the highway killer it's reknown for, every shift has to be at 8250RPM's. You must click it at precisely the right moment. Too soon and you lose the race. Too late and the fuel shuts off and you lose as well. It just takes practice and not much more than that.

The M5 pulls hard past 100mph. But if the driver isn't experienced and gets a little nervous, as I have seen time and time again in a race, the S600 can easily have the upper hand.

MikeG_C63_AMG

CH I'm just curious what 63's you have beaten. I know as a stock C63 I would be beaten, but what have your results been Vs an E63, S63, SL63?

ItalianStallion

From a light to light race, sure there is a good chance at beating the M5.

On a highway run it's a different story. I can't see a bone stock C63 beating an M5 on a highway pull.

soldier2304

This is what it did to a stock M5(famous for highway speeds)with just a TUNE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4718vN0kL3M

It probly wont beat it stock vs stock. But it will stay neck to neck

TopEndS62

I totally agree.

ItalianStallion

The tune seems to make a big difference on these cars. Great vid though and thanks for sharing!

housclass

if it matters...because you will always have people that doubt and love talking numbers instead of real world....i've raced in my stock s600...
1. c63...not even close
2. E55...first gear roll from 25 up to 75...had him by three
3. E55...(a different one) first gear roll up to 80...had him by 2-3 cars. we did it from a stoplight and had him by 2 cars at 60.
4. M5...from 50...he was 1/2 car ahead at the start and by the time we hit 100 i was one car in front.

never under estimate torque...even from a roll.

just my personal experiences...go ahead and start flaming.

when my e55 ran 11.85 stock all the haters came out then enzom runs .70's a year later and then everybody decided it was real...true bench racing at work!!!

john

itsmeek

I'm confused- are you modded housclass?

Thericker

Nice! interesting results, ever get her dyno'd?

TMC M5

I think everyone realizes anything can happen out on the streets. By your own experience you beat an E55 with your S600. Yet looking at your signature, your E55 (11.85 @ 118 mph) would have walloped your S600 (12.2 @ 113mph) in a straight up match from a dig or even a roll.

There are people over on the M5board who claim to have taken down 65's in stock or near stock M5's. Yes, that could happen, but there are mitigating circumstances...just as there are mitigating circumstances to why an M5 could get passed above 100mph by an S600. If pointing this out makes me or others a "bench racer" than so be it.

Tom

charles pearson

LMAO, you guys are killing me. The human factor does exist, while these beautiful cars are sitting parked somewhere in a garage, there are two guys comparing and contrasting their issues with one another, while the cars have absolutely no control over the fact that "Man" has designed them to be what they are. Face it, you can place one guy in the S600 one day and another guy in it the next, you will see a difference in the two as they run up on the M5. One day the M5 may win and one day the S600 may win, who knows. However I have to agree with the probability of weight, gear ratio, rwhp,torque, and the conditions that are in place at the moment. Personally I could care less, because I like and drive what I want and were I want, besides each car has it's own personality. For the ones who hate the limiter being set at 155mph, do what I did and get it delimited, yes it does suck to have those restrictions on your AMG's, but understand that you need to upgrade in brakes and Tire speed rating. Those cars from what I am understanding have that limit due to the type of speed rated tires that they are putting on these cars stocked.

housclass

good point...don't forget the 55 was run on a -1600 da night at hrp...the 600 wasn't. also...the 600 was impossible to launch at the strip that night. my brothers s65 ran 117 on radials and 123 on D/R's...most of the time when 60' times go down, so does mph...but not in this case. this is why i say numbers racing is useless.

if anybody in houston wants to meet up let me know...work on the north side...woodlads and live on the south side friendswood.

and my car is stock with 90k miles.

take care,

john

soldier2304

LOL personal experiences?

housclass

get a buddy of yours in houston with a stock c63 to meet up with me. i live in friendswood on the south side of town...should be an easy kill for ya!

soldier2304

Im pretty sure an S600 will beat a C63 stock vs stock. But come on to say somethin like " not even close" is like saying you'll pull 6-7 cars on one.