Reckless

Over the weekend, I raced a BMW M5 on the highway. I was egging him to race but he didn't seem interested. Then all of a sudden he kind of caught me off guard (I was in a high gear) but I almost caught up to him except my speed governor kicked in at around 132 mph (I can't wait to get my ECU/TCU upgrade). It was a pretty fun and intense race... on a perfect stretch of highway for it.

What is faster the M5 or the 600TT stock? After ECU/TCU tune?

Akademiks

You should have beaten him but seeing as you started in the wrong gear I can see the events unfolding as they did. Back when I first got my 600, I ran a M6 Coupe, with my top out, 0-120 ish and we were door to door. He said his car was some modded demon gracing the covers of some magazines that never existed.

After ECU/TCU, it's game over for any currently released stock BMW.

Carl Lassiter

Stock
Freeway- M5
Canyons- M5
Lights- 600

Tuned
Freeway- 600, if tune's a good one
Canyons- M5
Lights- 600, if it'll grip

Reckless

The highway did have some curviness to it. My tires had to really grip through the corners. Surprisingly I was able to catch up to him during the curves. I started to really gain on him after 100 mph and would have probably passed him going 140.

I felt soo cheated when the car wouldn't go any faster.

Akademiks

I'll disprove your freeway theory.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Stock for stock: no you won't.

Akademiks

I already have-- no theories here, speaking from experience.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

And it's been discussed ad-nauseum here that your own observations are unique for any number of reasons, mostly because nobody here believes your car is stock. Second of all, the math just isn't there. At highway speeds torque has long been left behind, it's about horsepower/weight/gearing. The M5 has the advantage in all 3 categories, most strikingly in the close-ratio gearbox.

I take no responsibility for M5 drivers who can't drive their cars, but I can tell you that I've beaten stock 600's, 63's and 55's.

Akademiks

I'm insulted you question my honesty in the matter. I've always truthfully posted videos in the kill stories, from the LP640 I lead into triple digits, to the ***-whopping I got from BenzoBoi's modded E55-- regardless of end results, I post the videos-- I have nothing to hide, certainly not a VRP kit and certainly not an ECU of sorts.

Heck, when I had my E55, I took on a M6 and beat it all the way to the limiter-- that must not have been stock either. Gee, I just keep getting lucky with these cars. Either I run into the slowest of the M-Series, or I blindly purchase modded cars.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Go ahead and get insulted about someone questioning something you said on the internet, you'll be making weepy youtube videos in five minutes. I'm just stating the facts as I've seen them over 3 years of owning this car, and the mathematical improbability that is your assertion.

There is simply nothing, nothing from power to weight to gearbox setup that gives a stock S600 the advantage over an M5. None. I've personally raced a W220 S600 and it did not stand a chance on a properly staged 60-120 race. You can go ahead and check out my own youtube videos where I run neck and neck with a Kleemann K2 SL55.

Akademiks

No weepy youtube videos from me CH. You can go ahead and throw out your mathematical lessons and probabilities, the fact is it wont change the results I've experienced.

TMC M5

A stock S600 would have a tough time with a stock M5 on the highway. The 2005 W220 weighs in at 4,600+lbs and has a tall 2.65 final drive ratio. This creates a huge disadvantage for the S600 which is probably making 20-30rwhp over the M5. An SL600 weighs 200lbs less than the S600 and should do better against the M5. It is all about being in the right gear on a highway roll-on (and that goes for both cars). The M5 was only going to get faster as speeds built up after 130mph (the M5 shifts from 4th to 5th @ 126mph at redline).

Alternatively, maybe the M5 was a 6 speed manual which would make the match a dead heat given that the M5's V10 was perfectly engineered to work in tandem with the 7 speed SMG gearboxes ratios?

A properly tuned S600 will change the game completely, The tune should free up 50-60rwhp which should be enough to overcome the gearing/weight disadvantages. Then again, I hate comparing modified cars to stock cars.

Tom

hdtv22

Am I the only one that has catched the fact that Akademiks drives and thinks an SL600 is faster than an M5, but all others think that the M5 is faster than the S600? Or maybe its just me--

Akademiks

I said you should have beaten him, at least that's what I think. Yes, I'm aware it's an S-Class. I was basing my conclusion from the fact I've beaten them in the SL (and E) and figured there wasn't too much of a performance difference between the two classes (SL & S).

i_am_amused

my '04 S55 (W220) is "only" 4300 lbs, not 4600. is the TT V12 that much heavier than the 55K V8? Does the 600 model just have that much more in the way of heavy options?

TMC M5

I guess the V12TT is just inherently heavier than the V8K. There may be some differences in heavier duty driveshafts, difference I don't think the other options play too much a part in the weight difference.

Tom

soldier2304

If i took out a stock M5 by about 2 cars ON THE HIGHWAY with just a K1 tune. I dont understand how a SL600TT or even the heavier S600TT putting out much more power than my car would have problem with an M5 or an M6 for that matter IMO

Akademiks

Mathematics and probabilities of course.

SL600 V12TT

Hard to believe that a M5 can beat a SL600. Hearing this from an M5 owner . I already have raced few and pooped on them. Did I also mention the same outcome goes for the M6. I didnt know u needed some skill to drive smg. Since you live in Jersey maybe I can show you some *** kicking in my stock 600

I love BMW FAN BOYZ

Thericker

I've recently met Harry, he's stock besides 20" wheels... I realize this thread was originally asked about the heavier S600 & not SL600, though (1) thing is very misunderstood just because 600TT is on frwy doesn't mean the huge TQ is gone, @ 65-70 mph my tach reads 2000-2100 rpms peak TQ is achieved @ 4500, if floored @ 65mph it'll drop into 2nd & still be in the meat of the TQ band until about 85mph & really slams you back in the seat, then HP takes over to 5500...

I'll leave the comparo stating: Heavier STOCK S600 would/should loose frwy dual as they Trap 114-115 @ best, the M5- Trap 117+...Lighter bone stk SL600's trap 117+

Thericker

Very odd your speed limiter kicks in @ about 130 + or - ONLY early 2003-2004 S600 models were limited to 130ish my 05' SL600 goes to 155 like the AMG's

Or maybe it was only limited in the S/CL 600's as I've heard this happening in those models as well...

Akademiks

I'll be honest, I'm mad were limited to begin with!

Akademiks

Didn't realize there was actually a decent gap between the 600 models. My fault for assuming equal stats. Thanks for the correction.

TMC M5

You honestly don't understand? A stock S600 isn't putting out all that much more peak hp than your K1 tuned C63. I imagine your C63 is putting down around 420rwhp...a stock S600 is putting down around 450rwhp. Your car is 500+lbs lighter than the S600 and has much better gearing with the 7 speed tranny. Your car should be faster than a stock S600.

Now match up your C63 against a stock M5. You have about the same hp and 7 speed trannys (let's assume no advantage in the gearing). The main difference is that the C63 weighs about 300lbs less.

Tom

IngenereAMG

Our ECU tuning adding 100 hp and getting rid of that speed limiter would have taken care of that M5!