Originally Posted by absent

Bentley yes,Rolls no....

Originally Posted by BVLDARI

this may be the reason why the MB v12 is going away:

BMW, the Munich-based German automaker, is reportedly in discussion with other automakers -- rivals in some cases -- to sell their engines and transmissions. Klaus Draeger, BMW's head of development, told Auto Motor und Sport that the automaker is in advanced talks with Mercedes-Benz about licensing engines to its Stuttgart-based competitor.

Specifics have not been announced, but one likely candidate would be BMW's new V-12, set to debut in the new 7 Series and baby Rolls-Royce sedan. Mercedes would drop it under the hood of their flagship S-Class and Maybach. There was no mention about the possibility of BMW's twin-turbo inline-six finding itself under the hood of a Mercedes (while BMW continues to refine their award-winning inline-six powerplant, Mercedes dropped their popular straight-six in the mid-1990's and replaced it with a V6), but Draeger did hint that other automakers have approached the company about diesel engine technology. Engine and transmission sharing isn't uncommon in the industry, but such a move would be a first for the two companies, each longstanding rivals with products selling in the identical segments.


http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/24/b...rcedes-others/

Originally Posted by absent

I just don't see it happening.
It would be like asking the neighbour that you despise,to impregnate your wife because you yourself are too busy with other things....

Originally Posted by irieblue

So how much? S65 pricing or S63 pricing, or something in-between?

Originally Posted by JR.

source: http://www.mercedes-amg.com/privatel...ad.php?t=16172


Affalterbach – AMG is writing another chapter in its "AMG Performance
2015" drive system strategy: a completely newly developed AMG 5.5-litre
V8 biturbo engine with a peak output of up to 420 kW (544 to 571 hp) and
maximum torque of up to 900 newton metres will enter the lineup in
summer 2010. The new eight-cylinder unit known internally as the M 157
impresses with a wealth of technological highlights such as direct petrol
injection with spray-guided combustion and twin turbochargers.

This innovative, autonomously developed eight-cylinder power unit
from Affalterbach sets new standards in terms of fuel consumption and
exemplary efficiency: the new S 63 AMG, in which the V8 biturbo will have
its market debut, consumes only 10.5 litres per 100 kilometres (NEDC
combined consumption, provisional figure). This represents a saving of
25 percent compared to the current S63 AMG. An intelligently designed
power transfer plays a major part in this: the unique AMG SPEEDSHIFT
MCT 7-speed sports transmission combines dynamism with economy, and
includes a new start/stop function in the "Controlled Efficiency" driving
mode. The new engine/transmission combination is the epitome of
exclusivity, sophistication, high performance and economy.

The S 63 AMG showcar is a homage to the impressive history of powerful AMG
V8 engines: visually this high-performance saloon resembles the spectacular
300 SEL 6.8 AMG, the racing car that won a class victory and second place in the
overall ranking for AMG at the 24-hour race in Spa-Francorchamps (Belgium) in
1971 – and made the company world-famous overnight.

"AMG Performance 2015" as the continuation of a success story

Mercedes-AMG is continuing this impressive story with its "AMG Performance
2015" strategy, and meeting its promise to continuously reduce both the fuel
consumption and emissions of new models with the new engine/transmission
combination – while reaching new heights with the central brand value of
"performance".

The new AMG 5.5-litre V8 biturbo engine will play a major part in the Mercedes-
AMG model strategy over the next few years. The unique AMG SPEEDSHIFT MCT
7-speed sports transmission will also guarantee a thrilling yet economical power
transfer in future AMG high-performance cars. The new engine/transmission
combination is another milestone in the success story of Mercedes-AMG, which
began in 1967. Another highlight in the company's more than 40-year history
it undoubtedly the SLS AMG: this gull-wing model due to be launched on
27 March 2010 is the first automobile to be completely independently developed
by Mercedes-AMG. It means that as the performance brand within Mercedes-Benz
Cars, AMG is not only fielding a masterpiece but also demonstrating development
expertise at the highest level.

Direct petrol injection with spray-guided combustion and twin
turbocharging

Whilst the AMG 6.3 litre V8 naturally aspirated engine has a displacement of
6208 cc the new AMG 5.5-litre V8 biturbo unit makes do with 5461 cc. The use of
direct injection technology results in a reduction of exactly 747 cubic centimetres
and increases efficiency. For the first time, AMG is also utilising the advantages
of direct petrol injection with spray-guided combustion and piezo-electric injectors:
thanks to its higher thermodynamic efficiency, this technology makes more
efficient use of fuel and leads to lower exhaust emissions. AMG combines this
spray-guided combustion with twin turbochargers. Other highlights include a
crankcase wholly of aluminium, four-valve technology with adjustable camshafts,
an air/water intercooler, generator management and a start/stop function as
standard.

This high-tech package leads to a high output and torque yield, together with
fuel consumption figures that are unrivalled in the competitive lineup. The AMG
5.5-litre V8 biturbo engine develops a peak output of 400 kW (544 hp) and maximum
torque of 800 newton metres. In conjunction with the AMG Performance
package these figures are increased to 420 kW (571 hp) and 900 newton metres.
A look at the performance diagrams shows that no other engine in this output
class achieves the figures delivered by the new AMG biturbo. The major difference
between the two performance classes is an increase in the maximum charge
pressure from 1.0 to 1.3 bar.

Quantum leap: fuel consumption reduced by 25 percent

With a provisional NEDC fuel consumption of 10.5 litres per 100 kilometres, the
new S 63 AMG is 3.9 litres more economical than the preceding model powered
by the naturally aspirated AMG 6.3-litre V8 – despite an increase in output by
14 kW (19 hp) resp. 34 kW (46 hp) and in torque by 170 and 270 newton metres.
Engine specialists consider this achieved fuel saving of more than 25 percent to
be nothing less than a quantum leap. CO2 emissions have likewise been significantly
reduced: at 246 grams per kilometre, the figure is 28.5 percent lower than
for the previous model.

With figures like these, the new S 63 AMG is not only considerably better than all
its competitors, but also more fuel-efficient than much less powerful cars in this
segment. Taking into account its enormous performance and torque figures the
new AMG 5.5 litre V8 biturbo engine is in parts twice as efficient as many midsegment
or compact-class diesel engines.

At the same time the S 63 AMG delivers superior performance at sports car level:
the high-performance saloon accelerates from zero to 100 km/h in 4.5 seconds,
and has an electronically limited top speed of 250 km/h. The 100 km/h mark is
reached in just 4.4 seconds with the AMG Performance package, with the top
speed increased to an electronically limited 300 km/h.

Engine production – tradition of hand-built excellence

Like all other AMG engines, the new eight-cylinder biturbo is assembled by hand
in the AMG engine shop taken into commission in 2002. A single, highly-qualified
technician assembles the M 157 according to the "one man, one engine" philosophy,
maintaining the very strictest quality standards. This painstaking care is
attested to by his signature on the characteristic AMG engine plate.

AMG CEO Volker Mornhinweg: "Efficiency plus performance"

"With the new AMG V8 biturbo engine and the AMG SPEEDSHFT MCT 7-speed
sports transmission, we are confronting the challenges of the future and focussing
on fuel consumption and exhaust emissions even more intensively than before.
Our new high-performance engine shows that AMG occupies a leading position
in terms of both efficiency and our brand commitment to "performance," says
Volker Mornhinweg, Chairman of Mercedes-AMG GmbH.

"The new AMG V8 biturbo engine is yet another milestone in our impressive V8
history. For the first time we have combined spray-guided direct petrol injection
with turbocharging. With this high-tech package we are "best in class" with
respect to fuel consumption, output and torque," says Friedrich Eichler, Head
of Engine and Powertrain Development at Mercedes-AMG.

Exciting power delivery, characteristic sound

These on-paper figures raise high expectations which the 400 kW (544 hp)
AMG 5.5-litre V8 biturbo certainly meets. The flat torque curve ensures enormous
pulling power in all speed ranges: 670 newton metres are already available at
1500 rpm, and the maximum torque of 800 newton metres is delivered just
500 rpm later, remaining constant to 4500 rpm. Even more effortless performance
is ensured by the engine variant with the AMG Performance package, which has
a peak output of 420 kW (571 hp). In this case the eight-cylinder delivers
875 newton metres of torque at just 2000 rpm, with a constant 900 newton
metres available between 2500 and 3750 rpm.

It is not only the unrivalled torque delivery of this turbocharged eight-cylinder
that makes the heart beat faster, as the agile responsiveness with no irritating
charger delay leads to an effortlessness and dynamism previously unknown in
this output class. All perfectly matched by the characteristic, sonorous engine
note. Moreover, this AMG high-performance engine naturally meets all the
requirements with respect to smooth, quiet running and the comfort on long
journeys that is to be expected of a Mercedes.

MCT 7-speed sports transmission with Controlled Efficiency mode and
start/stop function

Power is transferred by the AMG SPEEDSHIFT MCT 7-speed sports transmission
used exclusively by AMG, which is already familiar from the SL 63 AMG and
E 63 AMG and combines high emotional appeal with outstanding driving dynamics
and a high level of efficiency. The wet start-up clutch replaces a conventional
torque converter, and helps to save fuel. The exemplary fuel economy is also in
large measure due to the standard start/stop function. This system is active in the
transmission's Controlled Efficiency ("C") mode, and switches the eight-cylinder
engine off when the car comes to a stop. In "C" mode the sports saloon always
starts off in second gear, and the transmission shifts to the next, higher gears at
a decidedly early stage. With its high torque at low engine speeds, the V8 engine
encourages a smooth, effortless driving style.

The eight-cylinder biturbo engine also features the generator management system
familiar from the E 63 AMG: whenever the engine is on the overrun or when braking,
kinetic energy is used to charge the battery rather than being wasted as heat
in the usual way. In all other operating modes a combination of onboard network
and generator management enables the generator to be kept at a low voltage. This
reduces the load on the engine and makes for fuel savings of around 0.15 litres
per 100 kilometres according to the NEDC standard, and up to 0.2 l/100 km in
city traffic with its frequent overrun and braking phases.

Long tradition of powerful AMG V8 engines

Powerful eight-cylinder engines are an integral part of AMG's history. 2005 saw
the debut of the AMG 6.3-litre V8 engine known as the M 156. Depending on the
model, this naturally aspirated, high-revving unit develops up to 386 kW (525 hp)
and 630 newton metres. Reserved exclusively for the new SLS AMG, the M 159
with the same displacement of 6.3 litres has a peak torque of 420 kW (571 hp)
and maximum torque of 650 newton metres. Another milestone in the history of
AMG engines was the supercharged AMG 5.5-litre V8 engine introduced in 2001:
the M 113 K developed up to 428 kW (582 hp) and 800 newton metres of torque.
Even more power was forthcoming from the supercharged AMG 5.5-litre V8 engine
of the SLR McLaren dating from 2003 – the M 155 generated up to 478 kW
(650 hp) and 820 newton metres.

The supercharged AMG 5.5-litre V8, the AMG 6.3-litre V8 and the AMG 6.0-litre
V12 biturbo were all able to win the Best Performance Engine category in the
International Engine of the Year Awards.

The first AMG four-valve V8 accelerates "The Hammer" to 303 km/h

Another important engine in the AMG story was the M 117, its first eight-cylinder
unit with four-valve technology. With a displacement of 5.6 litres, 265 kW
(360 hp) and 510 newton metres of torque, this V8 accelerated the 300 CE 5.6
AMG to a top speed of 303 km/h in 1987. This made the coupé the fastest
German car in series production, and American fans reverently christened it
"The Hammer".

The S 63 AMG showcar harks back to the historic success in 1971

A historic success was achieved by the 300 SEL 6.8 AMG in 1971: powered by
an AMG V8 engine with a displacement of 6.8 litres and developing 315 kW
(428 hp), this signal red racing saloon crossed the finishing line in second place
during its very first outing at the 24-hour race in Spa-Francorchamps (Belgium),
securing victory in its class.

The spectacular S 63 showcar is homage to this triumph, which made AMG worldfamous
overnight although the company had only been founded in 1967: decorated
with sponsoring stickers identical to those on its historic predecessor, this powerful
S-Class made by Mercedes-AMG is a sensation. The imposing tyres in size
275/35 R 20 and 325/30 R 20 at the front and rear are just as eye-catching as the
4.5-centimetre wider front wings on each side. The discerning car-lover will even
discover exotic wood trim in the style of the original car in the interior.

The showcar is powered by the new AMG 5.5-litre V8 biturbo engine and the
AMG SPEEDSHIFT MCT 7-speed sports transmission.

Originally Posted by SL65amg

Because the competition will have 12 cylinder engines... it only makes sense that Benz will continue to have them also....

I'm sure none of us would be surprised if all of the sudden sometime in 2012 Benz comes out with their new 600 and 65 engine replacements with a 5.5 liter direct injection 48 valve DOHC bi-turbo V-12 for the 600 models and a larger 6.0 or 6.3/6.5 liter DI bi-turbo V-12 (maybe they'll just take the all-new 5.5 liter bi-turbo V-8 and add 4 more cylinders?) for the 65 model cars....

I wouldn't be surprised at all....

If this happens look for 700 HP and 800+ lb/ft torque levels for sure... and they'll all probably dyno alot higher than what Benz will claim on the window sticker for both the new bi-turbo V-8's and hopefully bi-turbo V-12's....

Originally Posted by Corsa9000

The industry trend is towards more efficient engines clearly. Car makers also worry about the new CAFE standards to avoid penalties. Turbo chargers, Direct Injection, Hybrid engines, etc. are just a few technologies they are utilizing to accomplish their goals.

Audi's S4 is a good example, they went from a V8 to a six, faster car by a full second, nearly same power but more fuel efficient.

V8 TT might be considered a downgrade by some, but reality is what is it.

Originally Posted by Sonny Crockett

always thought MB made a big mistake replacing the S55 with S63