Underwhelmed by S65?
05-19-2010, 11:38 AM
#26
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
No FI cars are gonna have the instant partial throttle response of an NA...drive your 993 against a non-turbo...but I do agree that AMG should have put in more effort to improve this...
btw, lol-ing at the comments "but it's to protect you from 740lbs of tq...", though it does come in low (at about 2k iirc) i agree with oliver that's not the reason...
awesome vehicle though, the W221 S65 is far superior to the Bentley Flying Spur or Panerama Turbo...unless you live at a ski resort...
-Rob
btw, lol-ing at the comments "but it's to protect you from 740lbs of tq...", though it does come in low (at about 2k iirc) i agree with oliver that's not the reason...
awesome vehicle though, the W221 S65 is far superior to the Bentley Flying Spur or Panerama Turbo...unless you live at a ski resort...
-Rob
05-19-2010, 11:57 AM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
No FI cars are gonna have the instant partial throttle response of an NA...drive your 993 against a non-turbo...but I do agree that AMG should have put in more effort to improve this...
btw, lol-ing at the comments "but it's to protect you from 740lbs of tq...", though it does come in low (at about 2k iirc) i agree with oliver that's not the reason...
awesome vehicle though, the W221 S65 is far superior to the Bentley Flying Spur or Panerama Turbo...unless you live at a ski resort...
-Rob
btw, lol-ing at the comments "but it's to protect you from 740lbs of tq...", though it does come in low (at about 2k iirc) i agree with oliver that's not the reason...
awesome vehicle though, the W221 S65 is far superior to the Bentley Flying Spur or Panerama Turbo...unless you live at a ski resort...
-Rob
again, I'm only talking about leaving a stop.
I also disagree with the flying spur assessment. I have no driven a panamera, but the flying spur has yet another step up in material quality and build quality. The awd also puts the power down better. Looks wise is a wash. I'd take the flying spur in a heartbeat.
05-19-2010, 12:06 PM
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
Rob, I don't think it has anything to do with forced induction. It is solely to do with the programming of the electronic throttle body. Then again, italso feels like it has a fairly loose torque converter.
again, I'm only talking about leaving a stop.
I also disagree with the flying spur assessment. I have no driven a panamera, but the flying spur has yet another step up in material quality and build quality. The awd also puts the power down better. Looks wise is a wash. I'd take the flying spur in a heartbeat.
again, I'm only talking about leaving a stop.
I also disagree with the flying spur assessment. I have no driven a panamera, but the flying spur has yet another step up in material quality and build quality. The awd also puts the power down better. Looks wise is a wash. I'd take the flying spur in a heartbeat.
05-19-2010, 09:42 PM
#31
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And remember that getting an extended warranty on an AMG if and when you need one, will be a bit tougher (if even possible), and certainly more expensive than the S600.
05-20-2010, 10:54 AM
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Supra
It's all in the electronics...IMO...TCU tuning should "fix" it...will have my S65 back with a freshly tuned TCU / ECU tomorrow, so stay tuned.
As for the TQ converter - a tigher converter will feel "laggy" off the line. A loose converter will flash to the stall very quickly and get the car into boost.
As for the TQ converter - a tigher converter will feel "laggy" off the line. A loose converter will flash to the stall very quickly and get the car into boost.
05-20-2010, 11:05 AM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
I consider loose vs. tight on converters to represent the stall speed. In other words, something like a drag style LSX car would have a 3800-4000rpm stall. I'd consider that loose. Whereas my S500 has about a 1200rpm stall speed, which I would consider tight.
Seems the 65 has about a 2100rpm stall.
that about right?
I'd argue that how fast it flashes has to do more with how quickly the engine revs (due to things like the weight of the reciprocating mass).
05-21-2010, 10:21 AM
#37
Oliverk, I hear what you are saying - in fact other people have commented on this too. The 65's seem to need a little more push to get them going, the throttle isn't as "alive" per say as a 55 engine. Maybe that's due to the amount of power and nature of the 65. I think it really is more at home accelerating when already at slightly higher speeds, then it's a monster. From a stop, obviously there are issues putting all of that power down on four wheels.
If you want that get up and go feeling on the throttle, the 55 engines usually feel a bit more spirited from a stop. The S63 has less torque than the 55's, but in general I think it is also a bit livelier around town than the 65. It's all based on how it's driven though, I'm sure if you drive the 65 aggressively everywhere, even from a stop light, that power difference you will definitely feel. First, as traction issues - but later as a big wallop of power when it hooks!
Look at it this way too, with 604 horsepower and even more torque, the engineers could not have made that pedal too responsive or lively from the get go- who knows what sort of directions you'd be spinning in in certain situations with that much power and a lively pedal! It'd be like a dodge viper or something.
If you want that get up and go feeling on the throttle, the 55 engines usually feel a bit more spirited from a stop. The S63 has less torque than the 55's, but in general I think it is also a bit livelier around town than the 65. It's all based on how it's driven though, I'm sure if you drive the 65 aggressively everywhere, even from a stop light, that power difference you will definitely feel. First, as traction issues - but later as a big wallop of power when it hooks!
Look at it this way too, with 604 horsepower and even more torque, the engineers could not have made that pedal too responsive or lively from the get go- who knows what sort of directions you'd be spinning in in certain situations with that much power and a lively pedal! It'd be like a dodge viper or something.
I have taken my car to the drag strip and have around 10 runs with it. I have also played at stop lights etc. Given my experience, I would definitely say that the way the throttle is made on this car is appropriate for the power level and for what the car is intended to do. I mean on dry pavements with good tires on at 40 mph you can easily spin the wheels when you mash the gas. And the power comes so quickly and is sooo abundant everywhere (keep in mind full torque is available at right around 2000 rpm) that giving it an aggressive throttle response would have resulted in a very jerky ride along with a lot of wheel spin.
As far as the transmission response, it isn’t the fastest I have ever seen, and I would agree that there is a delay in downshifting. Again, given the demographics, I think everything was done appropriately. If you need to downshift now, one can always hold the left paddle until the car gets in the lowest gear possible and you are good to go. At least they gave drivers a manual way out.
Again, given what the car was meant to do and what the general demographic is, I think they did a fine job of setting it up.
Oh, and one last thing, make NO MISTAKE about it - the car is SUPER SUPER fast. However, it does not “feel” that fast. My best run so far is 11.97 at 121. With four people in the car I ran 12.3 at 118. But due to how quiet and smooth it is it doesn’t “feel” like you are going that fast…
at least my 2 pennies.
P.S. to the OP, take my advice, from someone with a “cool” mom. I would not advise your mom to get a 65 unless she either needed it to show off for some reason or she is an exceptional driver. There is just no point to it.
05-21-2010, 03:47 PM
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02 S500 Sport
05-21-2010, 03:56 PM
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08 S65, 06 M3 CS(stick), 02 BMW X5 4.6iS, 07 R1 Raven, 08 F-450 4x4, 08 CooperS JCW
05-21-2010, 05:15 PM
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What I mean is not bad investment as in the sense in 2 years the car will be worth much less. No
I'm speaking about bad idea in general. Tell her the S600 is the same power and just as refined and 50k less.
I don't know unless your mom is gonna drive it like a race car then go for it.
05-21-2010, 06:41 PM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
I knew your reply was going to be in terms of financial investments and depreciation of assets etc.
What I mean is not bad investment as in the sense in 2 years the car will be worth much less. No
I'm speaking about bad idea in general. Tell her the S600 is the same power and just as refined and 50k less.
I don't know unless your mom is gonna drive it like a race car then go for it.
What I mean is not bad investment as in the sense in 2 years the car will be worth much less. No
I'm speaking about bad idea in general. Tell her the S600 is the same power and just as refined and 50k less.
I don't know unless your mom is gonna drive it like a race car then go for it.
Is it a bit overkill and fairly useless, but that doesn't make it a bad idea. Not like she's gonna kill herself in it.
05-22-2010, 11:10 AM
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Supra
Wow, we've gone from discussing being underwhelmed by performance to torque converters, to the financial aspect.
If she has the disposable income, wants "the best" - what the hell, go for it. Tell her to waive if she sees me in my black S65
If she has the disposable income, wants "the best" - what the hell, go for it. Tell her to waive if she sees me in my black S65
05-26-2010, 02:12 PM
#48
I've been driving my car and thought about this thread. Once again, the car is soooo smooth and the power delivery is so "sneaky" that I can totally understand why someone could feel unimpressed and underwhelmed after driving one of these. but they are nothing short of amazing imho.
05-26-2010, 04:19 PM
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96 and 08 911 turbos
I agree about the 65 part.
She doesn't have grand kids.
05-26-2010, 09:25 PM
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fast cars and faster motorcycles ..
.
if i could change one thing about an S65 it would be the launch.
when i walk into my garage, the S65 is one of my favs even tho the launch is annoying. my problem is that i am very fortunate and somewhat spoiled with many instant gratification, high performance vehicles that i can choose from that don't need higher revs to launch.
trust me, i understand it takes a lot of power to move that much weight from a stop and i should adjust my expectations accordingly.
around town the car is good.. on the highway the car is GREAT !!
..
tell your Mom to go for it !!
.
if i could change one thing about an S65 it would be the launch.
when i walk into my garage, the S65 is one of my favs even tho the launch is annoying. my problem is that i am very fortunate and somewhat spoiled with many instant gratification, high performance vehicles that i can choose from that don't need higher revs to launch.
trust me, i understand it takes a lot of power to move that much weight from a stop and i should adjust my expectations accordingly.
around town the car is good.. on the highway the car is GREAT !!
..
tell your Mom to go for it !!
.
Last edited by JR.; 05-27-2010 at 12:06 AM.
