Quadcammer

so I've driven two separate 221 S65s and I've really been underwhelmed.

I haven't gotten on the throttle hard, as I'm aware of the ultimate power, but around town, the throttle response seems very laggy, the brake pedal is mushy, and the steering feels a bit wooden. The transmission also seemed slow to downshift and even in S mode, you had to give the car a lot of throttle to get moving.

Both cars were 2007s with about 40k miles in good shape.

I have been impressed with the ride quality even with 20s though.

I figured this would be a "gotta have it" type of experience compared to my 05 S500, but around town, I prefer my 220 actually. Clearly ultimate power is no comparison, but I wasn't blown away.

Now this car will be for my 60 year old mother (shes pretty cool), so its ultimately not my choice, but I guess I expected more from Mercedes' Flagship performance sedan.

anybody else get the same feeling? did you get over it?

thanks

Fraser

Do you have a flameproof suit to hand?

Viet_Amg408

why don't you full throttle and see what happen

Quadcammer

I know the car is fast, thats not the point.

99% of the time, I will not be WOT, and nor will she.

Hence, I was a bit disappointed with the way the car drove around town.

Fraser, I spose I might need it.

Have you compared the 600 to 65? Does the 600 have that same throttle lag at light throttle openings?

Fraser

I haven't, no.

The 600 is plenty enough for the majority of my driving...though I wouldn't mind giving a 65 a spin for a few days

I'm slightly surprised by your assessment as I thought the 65 would be more of a fire breathing dragon at all times...that said the Top Gear review of the '05 CL65 did give me the impression the 65 really comes into its own (versus other quick vehicles) whilst you're on the move and looking for extra beans.

Quadcammer

oh yeah, I'm sure if you are dawdling along at 60 and need to pass, pounding the throttle will deliver very well.

But leaving stop lights and stuff, the car felt very awkward to drive.

Gondon

I think the W221 is just that smooth that it gave you the illusion.

Blk04cobra1

It's confusing to hear someone say that it didn't wow them. I have to agree that a 55 engine would give you more stop light to stop light fun, but the 65 is an animal. When I drove a 221 over my 220 I thought it felt larger, but wasnt that much different. I did however prefer the way the 221 handles over my 220.

Quadcammer

folks, I think there is a misunderstanding here.

I am not referring to engine power or accelerative abilities. I'm talking about throttle response from step off.

In other words, when leaving a light gentle or gently applying the throttle, the response from the the pedal is very laggy. It may need one of those sprint booster things.

I'm not talking about the engine power whatsoever.

rondocap

Oliverk, I hear what you are saying - in fact other people have commented on this too. The 65's seem to need a little more push to get them going, the throttle isn't as "alive" per say as a 55 engine. Maybe that's due to the amount of power and nature of the 65. I think it really is more at home accelerating when already at slightly higher speeds, then it's a monster. From a stop, obviously there are issues putting all of that power down on four wheels.

If you want that get up and go feeling on the throttle, the 55 engines usually feel a bit more spirited from a stop. The S63 has less torque than the 55's, but in general I think it is also a bit livelier around town than the 65. It's all based on how it's driven though, I'm sure if you drive the 65 aggressively everywhere, even from a stop light, that power difference you will definitely feel. First, as traction issues - but later as a big wallop of power when it hooks!


Look at it this way too, with 604 horsepower and even more torque, the engineers could not have made that pedal too responsive or lively from the get go- who knows what sort of directions you'd be spinning in in certain situations with that much power and a lively pedal! It'd be like a dodge viper or something.

Quadcammer

I think that explains it well.
I think its kind of ridiculous that my mother is buying this car as she'll hardly ever use the power, but thats what she wants.

I've never really been drawn to AMG cars, as I prefer my MB's quiet, soft, and luxurious. I tend to go with other brands for sporting vehicles.

fwiw, my father's SL55 has similar throttle response. Takes some getting used to for sure.

Stephen04E55

I have had both an 600 and 65 series W220 and notice similar laggy throttle response. The 600 had a similar feel before tuning by Renntech. After tuning the 600 felt much quicker to respond and more fun to drive at light throttle situations. My recent 2006 S65 is very laggy and slow to motivate but has a lot of reserve when you step deeper into the pedal. I will get tuning sometime soon and see if it helps and possibly as sprint booster as you metioned. Overall, I am impressed with my 65 as it feels much sportier than my '03 S600 with handling situations. The 19" wheels and Michelin Pilot Sports are probably the reason for this.

TMC M5

I also think the adaptive nature of the throttle/transmission amplifies the "laggy" throttle. If the car hasn't been driven hard, the throttle/gear changes will seem a bit slow. You can try disconnecting the battery and seeing if it resets...or try smashing the throttle a few times to see if it finally wakes up the throttle.

Tom

Fraser

I think you're getting dangerously close to mentioning 'TQ friendly Bay Area highways' and how 65 is best engineered car in the world for daily commuting...

Quadcammer

oh jeez. i can't wait for wsh to come in and tell me his cl65 handles better than a 997 GT3 porker

Corsa9000

Oliver,

I own a 2004 S55 and have driven a few S63's and S65's at AMG events. I found the throttle response to be quick and no mushy feel with brake application. Could the cars you drove be in need of brake fluid flush since this is not a common chracteristic of the W221 AMG's?

Also, as you well know the adaptive transmission software can slow down throttle response if car was driven slowly previously.

Addicted2Speed

With over 700lb-ft torque at 2k RPM's it needs a slow throttle response or it would be near impossible to drive smoothly lol. You can install sprintbooster if you want a faster throttle response.

absent

You forgot to insert "Volkswagen" 997 GT3.....

Quadcammer

there are any number of possibilities. they were both cpo cars, so all service should be up to date. i will admit that the car yesterday had worn brakes (damn they are pricey).

I could always do a quick ecu reset before driving.

700lbft occurs at wide open throttle. you can have a responsive pedal and be perfectly fine. The car will only accelerate as hard as your right foot will let it.

rondocap

Haha yeah, I think I read so many s class forum archives that soon I will be sounding like wsh...

Oliverk, any particular reason your mother wants this car instead of the other s-classes, especially since she won't really use the power? Even people who use the power sometimes have a hard time choosing it over an S600 or S63! It's definitely more exclusive, but few people pay attention to the fact it's an AMG, much less to the fact that it's a rarer 65 vs say, a 63.

Quadcammer

honestly, I couldn't tell you. she likes the looks and exclusivity.

crazy women I tell ya.

rondocap

Heh, yeah I know how it is! Is she considering anything else?

Also remember down the line, the maintenance is going to be a bit more expensive than the other S models, mainly due to certain items like the brakes.

nick 55

He wouldn't own a CL65 anymore since it is old, outdated, dangerous technology now. I think the airbags rot in his cars after 4 months.

Nick

JonMBZ

I think the car is designed to still be a smooth ride since it's an S, I would imagine if you managed to tap the kick down switch it would turn into beast mode. Also a sprint booster mod would probably help. With all the power this car has it would be pretty scary for it to always take off as soon as you hit the pedal and it would scare the people that do have the money for this car and want it just for the reasons your wife would. Could you imagine if the car was spinning tires each time you hit the gas? I think you wife might have a different outlook on the car if she couldn't drive it like a normal vehicle.

Quadcammer

Yeah, I have fairly decent source for parts and have a good amount of experience working on Mercedes and other makes. I'm not too concerned with maintenance, but I agree $3k for brake parts is shocking.

haha I know what you mean. But since the Porsche panamera has junk reliability and poor safety features, not to mention girly torque. Lol, he is so ridiculous.

guys, its not like the car hits 700lb ft of torque with a little throttle application. The only time this happens is at full boost i.e. at full throttle. Most cars that have over 400bhp will spin the tires if you floor it from a stop. The car could have a responsive throttle without being dangerous.