dflamer

Group:

An associate may be selling his very well maintained 2008 S65 and I have first dibs on it. It has about 55,000 miles on it. Don't have a price worked out yet, but I have known him a long time and he always maintains his cars exceptionally well. I would not buy the car if it was not from him.

My question relates to the issue of the ABC. All I have read on the forums are that that ABC is a nightmare to maintain. The issues are both troubleshooting as well as cost. I believe the car as a whole has been so well maintained (all dealer service) so that other issues would not arise. It's just that darn ABC.

As of now I do not know if it has an extended warranty that can be transferred. I will find out eventually. I am open to all opinions. If there is no extended warranty, and I cannot find one, should I not even bother?

Your guidance is greatly appreciated.

babyman1737

I guess with all cars, knowing the vehicle history is a nice thing. With these cars though, there isn't all the preventative maintenance in the world that can keep some issues from coming up (ABC, tranny, engine). I see you're used to higher end / high performace vehicles. Everyone on here will insist on an extended warranty, probably a great idea. Is his car an end-of-lease buyout?

dflamer

Babyman, all solid points. No doubt that there are things that are going to fail. I gain confidence by the fact that this car was never tracked, detailed once a week, and driven by a guy in his 70's.

I am going to have to track down whether or not I can find an extended warranty (if it does not have one in effect currently). I know that obtaining one for the 12 cylinder cars is somewhat problematic.

No, it is not a lease return car. It is a car he owns outright.

Thank you for your insight.

mrbenzes

It sounds to me like you have a great prospect but are reading too much! Haha just joking. I went through the same thought process prior to buying my S55...it is just another system that, in my opinion, if you study it a bit, you can understand how it works and you'll be fine. I have an S55 and have done all of the PM on MY ABC system that I can...I bought the star system and already changed my ABC fluid. My car does not have any type of warranty and has 57K on it. The bottom line is that it is just another item to budget for and if it breaks, well, then you just fix it and go on...it would really be the same as those coil packs, Crankshaft position sensor, etc...all jusy line items on the car budget...it looks to me that you already have a high car budget so i would go for it and get the 65...dont worry about what can break and enjoy the car! it does help that you already know that the car has not been abused...that is worth the price of a warranty in itself.
Also, there is a user on this forum named Bruce that can get you a warranty on an S65.
My two cents.
Mike

dflamer

Mike

Thanks for the feedback. I am going to take this a step at a time. I have not been hounding the guy, so some of the information I have is admittedly scant. Next time I see him I will definitely ask him about a warranty.

I will just keep my options open with him until I don't believe the deal is worth it.

Your comments are appreciated.

Busa196

Having owned two 65s a I can tell you that you'd be out of your mind to even consider owning one without a warranty.....and a good warranty at that. These cars don't go in for repairs for less than 1k a visit, or very rarely. Coil packs, I/c pumps, sensors, abc pumps, etc.....to name a fraction of them. Brakes are 5k alone...and at your mileage you'll need them soon. Rear tires every 10k miles at 8-900k a set, fronts at 25k. You can't afford this car without a warranty.....if you could, you wouldn't be shopping for a used one. I don't mean that as an insult as I could never afford one without a warranty either.....I'm simply stating be prepared to fork up some serious dosh at the drop of a hat, potentially many times over. Disposable cash comes to mind......a ton of it.
Great cars, and I wouldn't drive anything else......but never, ever out of warranty. Just my .02.

dflamer

Busa, I was looking for the straight dope and I greatly appreciate your input. I am not insulted.

Yes, it is sounding like the deal would revolve around having a warranty and I would need to determine if it has one in effect that can be transferred, or if I can get one on my own. Sourcing a warranty could be troublesome, but I will cross that bridge if and when the situation warrants.

They are great vehicles that depreciate. Just like other deemed supercars, such as Porsche and Rolls Royce, experienced cars can be had at a fraction of their MSRP, but there is a reason for that.

I won't roll the dice without doing as much research as I can and this feedback is very valuable. I appreciate it.

abhatti55

Close friend has an '07 daily driver. 140k miles, regular service. Runs and looks like new.

dflamer

That is great to know. I hope to have the same experience some day.

Welwynnick

Look at it this way. The used car market has a way of levelling out the values of cars, and we can make that work to our advantage.

If the S65 had all its current attributes, but was as cheap and reliable to run as a Toyota, then its market value would be MUCH higher than it actually is. So think of every S65 as heavily discounted in anticipation of the likely costs of ownership.

At some point in the future, EVERY S65 will need coil packs, ABC pump and engine mounts - everybody knows that, and values them accordingly. I've owned five cars with V12 engines, and the biggest single expenditure I've ever had is one coil pack. Its not the end of the World, nor a reason not to buy one IMHO.

Personally I think that an ABC pump every 100k miles is a small price to pay for the remarkable benefits that it brings. I still have a 1992 Toyota Soarer UZZ32 - the Worlds first car with fully active suspension. It was an incredible achievement in its time, but the suspension cost almost as much as the car, the pump sucked lots of power out of the engine (especially off the line) and cost a fortune to replace. I think we've never had it so good...

Nick

dflamer

Nick

Some very valid points that I fully agree with. It really is not the fact that the car is going to need a lot, it is the possibility that the car is going to need a lot that drives the values down.

I am hoping that the one I am looking at is a good one. We will have to see how it goes.

sakodik

Busa, where do you get a warranty? I can't find one for my 2006 S65 and have been fronting all the bills out of my wallet. Seems normal to spend 2k per repairs though.

Dflamer, your buddy's 2008 S63 should have an extended warranty offer from the dealership. The only problem I see is, the issues relating to your car won't occur until AFTER your warranty expires, which means you spent 3-5k on extended warranty which didn't cover your expenses in addition to problems that occur after warranty. In my experience, buying a warranty is a waste of money. My 2007 S550 was offered extended warranty, but I haven't had a problem since owning it EXCEPT ESP module, which was replaced by warranty in 2008. Its hard to predict when a car will have problem, so its hard to know whether or not you should buy the warranty. For example, my uncle bought a 2007 CLS 2 years ago and bought a 2.5k warranty that expires in 2 months, so far the warranty saved him 700 bucks. Not more than the warranty so hes losing money out of buying, and the warranty didn't cover certain items like ABC.

So if you find a good warranty that covers the ABC for the S63, go for it if your buddy did not maintain his ABC hose,pumps etc.! Its a time bomb that you don't know if it will go out on you before or after your warranty expires.

RaceHorse

As many have mentioned it is more than a good idea to have this car with a warranty. Getting it from him before the existing warranty expires makes it much easier to find coverage and may avoid inspections if there is no lapse of coverage. However at the same time warranty companies have also adjusted their rates quite a bit over the last few years(close to double for like mileage and aged V12TTs). Also less companies provide coverage or they provide limited coverage. Remember they are not in the business to lose money. It may make more sense to have a higher copay and pay less initially. At some point if you are finding the price of the warranty to be so high it may be worth rolling the dice and just putting the money away. The known problems have been stated, its all a matter of your comfort level. Try Bruce from Beck Imports (he provides warranties) very fair guy here on the forums. Good luck!!

theunderlord

Here's a random thought.

If you're thinking about buying a 600hp 190K+ Supercar, on the used market, do you really need to concern yourself with expensive repair bills?

I mean, I have to think one of the reasons to want a S65 (and dear god I'm in that boat as well) is that it says "S65 AMG" on the trunk, and that means you are a badass, driving a badass car.

People see you and go, "Oh, that guy must have a sh*t ton of money." "I wish I drove that car!" and if you're a woman seeing that car, "I want that man to have sex with me, now."

So some things might go wrong over the time period in which you own the car, and yes, they are probably going to be expensive to repair... but if you want to drive around in the FLAGSHIP Mercedes Benz why care about how much it costs? More than likely it's pocket change to you.

sakodik

^+1. To quote, Borderlands 2 "BADASS INCOMING!"

Busa196

I made sure on both occasions that I purchased a cpo'd car- which is the ONLY way that you can extend the MB warranty through 7yrs/135k miles. once the factory warranty or the cpo warranty expire, youre hosed.

I think the extended warranty was 2500/yr......I covered that in one trip, and have been back 2-3 times since- AND I still have almost 1.5yrs left. I dont have a clue how MB doesn't lose their azz the 65 warranties.....regardless of the initial sticker price. Oh well, I won't argue.....it allows me to own one.

Wolfman

I am actually tired of hearing that rationale. No, there is actually NO reason for the depreciation that relates to the car, not even the repair costs.

The depreciation is primarily based on an incredibly small customer base. Customers that buy these cars new, resale value, insurance and maintenance is simply not a consideration.

When the cars get replaced, there is an even smaller group of potential buyers around; the value buyers that wait for the initial depreciation and snap up nice deals (yet often could afford the cars new as well) and the larger group of buyers for which these cars are normally out of the price range.

Several friends of mine are in that second group, and while they love their cars they also constantly whine about the costs to maintain them. That's not the fault of the car in IMO, it's the lack of them figuring out the overall cost of ownership.

It's just a simple fact of life that anything produced in low volume will cost more. Even tires, brakes and wheels...

So, if you are concerned about a potential $3800 ABC pump repair on a $200+k car, don't buy it. Even if you have a warranty, it won't cover everything and you won't be happy.

My 2cents.

dflamer

I understand your point, but only partially agree.

People that can afford a $200,000 car, and want it, get it. They are flush enough to purchase it outright, or wind up leasing them for 2 or 3 years. I have many clients in this situation and most go the leasing route.

For the rest of us, we finance cars. No one wants to be paying $70K to $80K for a 4 or 5 year old used S class and be on the hook when something makes a big noise. That and the fact that technology changes and that they all "need something" is why they depreciate so significantly. They can be expensive to keep up and that variable impacts value.

I respectfully disagree that it is a small market. There are not a huge amount of these vehicles available. That should keep the values up, but it doesn't.

Busa196

Lol.....it's actually a 75k car with a 3800 dollar abc pump repair.....big difference. If he was buying a "200k car" he likely wouldnt care about a 3800 repair bill. And, I disagree with the warranty statement. I've had 5yrs and counting of driving a 65 and my mb warranty has never, ever, left me paying anything overly expensive......and 98% of the time leaves me paying nothing.

These cars are there to be had at reasonable prices/maintenance costs, you just have to be extremely cautious on the warranty, have some common sense, and always be prepared to fork out the money for the brakes, tires, and routine services. It's all relative, for some it's outrageous.....for others it a no-brainer. I used to spend the same amount, if not more on a blown Vette that I was constantly scared to hammer for fear of the motor gernading and rarely drove. So, why not put into something that I can enjoy ever day?

Personally, I enjoy driving an 11sec sedan that'll embarrass 99% of other cars in the road.....and do it effortlessly, in comfort, with 4people in the car....under warranty. And....the usual "wtf is that!?" comments tha follow.

dflamer

Coming back full circle, I really appreciate everyone's comments. Every reply has had some nuggets that are valuable. I like hearing comments that I don't agree with because it forces one to think a bit more.

In the end it comes down to basics. Buying any used car is a gamble, and you have the do all of the typical homework and even with great information and research, you roll the dice. The forum allows some of that headache to be shaved off because we get other's feedback on their experiences.

I like my friend's S65 a lot, and if it can work out, I'll probably go for it. As I said before, if it wasn't his, I probably would not be looking at any S65. I know him and how he cares for his vehicles. It would be a coup if it can be purchased right.

A warranty is just an insurance policy. As with all insurance, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

I'll definitely follow up with my progress. Thanks to all.

Wolfman

I think you misunderstood my statement and my point entirely.

My ONLY issue is that I hear so often that these cars have a great depreciation due to the fact that they are too expensive too maintain or break often. I simply maintain the they depreciate due to the fact that there simply is only a small customer base that buy these cars used.

After all, you can buy a two year old S65 with 25k miles with a $100K depreciation still with full warranty. Depreciation alone at whopping $4 a mile!

So since daflamer's biggest concern on the 2008 S65 is a potential ABC repair, then I think he may not be happy with purchasing it as there will be plenty of other maintenance and repairs (however small) coming up that will not be covered by a warranty (MB or 3rd party).

Like $1500 for spark plugs, motor mount replacement for $3k, tires, brakes and lots of small electronics stuff that breaks and is very pricey.

Mercedes btw has an excellent courtesy coverage as long as the car is under 7 years/100k miles as they will cover parts and sometimes partial labor if the service manager asks for it.

I for one had my ABC pump covered for free while out of warranty an only had to pay for the labor/fluids...

So, I enjoy our SL600 every time I drive it and couldn't care less for some of these costs. I spend about $2-3k a year on some small crap (drive about 12K miles a year) plus tires. Have never cared about that; best money spent

Wolfman

I personally would go for it, simply calculate your total cost of ownership on the high side (warranty costs, non-warranty piggy bank).
If that number doesn't bother you, you'll enjoy a fantastic car without regrets