VinnyT

I was. It is all over the highway now.

Welwynnick

I use any old cheap CHF-11S.

I only ever use MB approved engine & transmission oil, though.

Nick

Welwynnick

I've owned two NA V12's, which were no trouble at all.
Then I bought a Biturbo, and all hell let loose.
Subsequently I found out what to look for, and how to look after it, and my second Biturbo has been very little trouble.

For the record, this is what I did to the first TT:
Engine:
210 Rebuilt turbos with engine in situ
118 Engine mounts in situ
5 Long coil pack heat shields
1 Synchronised waste-gates
325 (MB Service)
46 Diverter valves
7 T-bolt clamps
109 Engine radiator
99 Engine fan
857 Coil pack
6 Throttle body gasket
295 (Ignition Switch)

Transmission:
395 Transmission rebuild
250 (Torque converterrebuild)
94 Conductor plate
8 TCM Connector
98 Oil, filter & gasket
34 Transmission mount
35 TCM Lock Lever

Suspension:
600 Wide front wheels & tyres
300 Compression jointed hoses
100 Fire sleeved hoses
10 Uprated front strut bushes
5 Uprated steering bushes
200 Rear struts
243 ABC pump
96 ABC accumulator2
0 ABC height sensor
74 Bottom ball Joints

Charge cooling:
99 Engine radiator HE
100 Engine cooling pump
140 Custom pump controller
12 Coolant temp sensor
32 Header tank
12 Charge Cooler Bleeders
7 Insulated Charge Coolers

Consumables:
5 Windscreen seal
1 Raised rear seat cushion
100 Front tyres
192 Front discs
56 Front pads
100 Rear tyres
109 Rear discs
34 Rear pads
28 Rear shoes
76 Ball joints
57 Battery
158 Spark plugs
33 Speed sensors
55 Lambda sensors
68 Temp sensors
37 Boost sensor
50 Rain sensor
30 Lots of O-rings

Welwynnick

Exactly.

I expect a CL500 or S500 with ABC would be more reliable.

Nick

Welwynnick

Ditto. One of the best cars I owned was an E38 750il. It could show the S600 a thing or two about refinement, build quality, ride comfort and reliability. I have very fond memories of that car.

pumpedTSI

Well......the car has just over 140k and the Items that have been done in the last 6k miles are as follows......New tires (3k miles ago) Yokahama A/S 275/35/19 and 245/40/19. New plugs, wires, coils, crank sensor, pulleys and tensioners (all metal no plastic), belts, SC bearing, crank pulley (stock), front main seal, ABC filter with inline magnetic 3 micron filter, cabin filters, air filters, new Bosch 010 intercooler pump, new brakes (pads), new intake tubes, PS filter, throttle body (upper and lower), trunk and hood struts, IAT and MAP sensors,valve cover gaskets, oil pan gasket, new oil level sender,fuel pump and filter, intake manifold gaskets, fuel injector orings and filters,ABC valve block rebuild, ABC system flush and conversion to M1 ATF, PS system flush, surge tank gaskets, SC oil change with Jet oil, coolant flush and switchout to Evans coolant, new accelerator pedal and brake pedal switch, Tranny fluid and filter change with conductor plate update, jack pads, ABC level sensor (1), upgraded driver seatback blower fans, 1 front to rear ABC line, engine and tranny mounts, rear struts, new headlight ignitors/ballasts/bulbs.......jeezus the list never ends.......BMW M73 list at 150k.....crickets...

Not all the above were failure items since I did a lot of PM but many were items that failed.....I actually like wrenching but Im becoming an AMG mechanic and not by choice....

pumpedTSI

I converted to M1 ATF over a year ago with zero issues.......a LOT cheaper on fluid, more modern formula, non hydroscopic BUT flammable......as long as it doesnt spray on a hot manifold.

Welwynnick

I'm not ridiculously precious about what I do to my car, or what I put in it, but I don't think I would use ATF in the suspension. Hydraulics are a pretty undemanding application for oil - it just has to convey pressure, and lubricate and cool a bit. Not even very much. The only major desirable attribute for hydraulic oil is low viscosity, to reduce pumping losses (and hence heating).

Low viscosity is particularly important for ABC because the suspension depends on the weight on the wheel to push the fluid out of the strut when the drain valve is opened, and if you're cornering, there may not be much weight on the wheel. And when the weather is cold, the oil viscosity is much higher than hot, and the oil may not drain quickly. However, it will still fill quickly on the other side, because the pump pressure is behind it, so in the worst case condition the car may heave upwards while trying to keep flat.

This isn't a problem for the more common active anti-roll bars used by Porsche, BMW, and all high-end SUV''s, and for Mclarens with active suspension, as they are all differential systems. Mercedes addressed this by specifying a fluid that had particularly good low temperature viscosity. I now use Kerax Hyperdrive CHF 11S, which is much cheaper than Pentosin. The specs are not quite identical, but very, very, close.

ATF has quite different and quite specific requirements, and the lowest possible viscosity is not one of them (otherwise the torque convertor wouldn't work very well). I'm all for NOT throwing money at cars - the proof is on post 28, where I gave the cost of each repair / mod, and you can see that apart from one coil pack I never spent very much any anything. But I would stick to CHF-11S for ABC.

BR, Nick

Manofsteelpt

My CLS63 was also covered by Assurant. All work was done at MB, and they paid for everything (I did have a $100 deductible), even replacing my motor/tranny mounts.

amstel78

Out of curiosity, I called USAA today to compare car insurance rates against Geico (who I'm with now), plus get a bit more info on their vehicle extended warranty program. Turns out that I'm already enrolled with USAA; guess they must have entered me in the system from my service records. So, insurance was actually more expensive than Geico by a fair bit, but I can't blame them as I also have homeowner's insurance through Geico which reduces my overall premiums. It is true that USAA could have extended the warranty on my S65, but unfortunately the car just missed out on the 10 year deadline. Live and learn I suppose.

The good news is that one does not need to have car insurance with USAA to be able to participate in the extended warranty program. You just have to be eligible for any of their services, and most active duty and prior-serve personnel such as you and myself and many others already are.

I guess I'll keep that in mind if/when I decide to move up to W221 S65. For normal Mercs, this extended warranty probably isn't worth it, but for anything with 12 cylinders and ABC, a definite must have.

pumpedTSI

Nick,
not going to go back on forth on ATF vs Pentosin but I made the choice and have been happy with it so far. Its been debated and accepted and put in practice by many on the Audi/VW circles over extended time periods. M1 synthetic ATF IS a hydaulic fluid and is used in multiple real world hydraulic based applications since its a more modern formula than the aging mineral based CHF, is non hydroscopic and works better at higher temps and is a larger molecule so less leaks and a makes for a quieter operating system. Viscosity "may" be a factor in colder climes but Im in sunny Fl with high temps all year round......only downside is that its flammable and CHF is not......to each his own.....Im happy with my decision as you are with yours. We can agree to disagree....happy hunting.

VinnyT

What is really sad is I cannot get a return phone call from my local MB to give me a damn estimate on what it would cost to fix it. Pathetic.

amstel78

Can't you find a good indy near you to help out? I'm sorry to hear you're having so many issues with your S65. I feel for you man, I really do.

I will say that one thing about my car that really annoys me is the wobbly driver's seat. Still haven't gotten around to fixing it, but with less than 62k on the clock, I shouldn't have to. My truck has over 100k miles on it, and the power seats are just fine.

JohnLane

Geez... Whole lot of whining here!

Guys you are driving cars that sold for over $150,000 new. They commanded this price due to complex systems like... ABC, twin turbocharged Bent-12 engines that do a fine DrJeckyll/MrHyde game when driven gently VS giving it spurs. Not to mention cool things like four zone climate control, massage seats that are heated and cooled... No point in continuing... You know the cool ish your car has... That and interior materials/design that make it worthwhile.

Point being that that they are complicated machines that need to be looked after. Want something that requires gasoline and oil changes annually? Go buy a Camry and enjoy it. There is more to life then good gas mileage.

OP.... Hiring an attorney? Really? Clearly someone pissed in your cornflakes this morning! enjoy the Camry.

JohnLane

ummmm.... Vinny have you been as bright and cheery dealing with the local MB dealer as in this thread?

if you are not enjoying the service at the local MB dealer seek out a good Indy shop to help. Be nice!

VinnyT

Sorry John, but mine was looked after and still broke down. Not whining, it's the freaking truth. These are NOT reliable cars period.

Camry? No. I'll just get another Vette

JohnLane

Vinny... I purchased my car in part due to needing for easier ingress/egress for her elderly parents. Is a bummer not being 19 anymore!

If you have need for bigger comfortable reliable transport.... I present you.... The Lexus LS. Bent eight power (yawn) and utterly reliable.

It will carry more groceries then the Vette.

Best wishes.

Denis_E55

Vette? Go ahead and act like a Vette doesn't have problems. I've had two C6 Z06s, they have issues like every other car out there.

PillDrive

I feel your Pain Vinny.....i have had my run-ins with my ABC over the years.....matter of fact is today i blew a hose in the back somewhere. Car is now parked at work with the skits on the ground. I have had my pump replaced 3 times and had 2 hoses blow...BUT ...the car does handle at 14 years old and 250k on the clock and i am still pissing off a lot of newer so called muscle cars by walking away from them.
Anyway...i will fix the car AGAIN because i am just not ready to part with it.....even though i cursed and cussed a lot today when it happened ......just not sure how i am going to tow it now that it sits on the ground.

I hope you will keep yours.... i am sure there is a lot of life left in it....
Good luck

Pbrill

Same here, even with my E63 everyone was like no way, EXCEPT 1 company. They were like oh yea, we got you. For $7,800 down and $235 a month on top of that. I'm like, yea no I'll just replace whatever breaks for that amount of money.

VinnyT

2 ABC lines blown, rear strut blown. They have to drop the subframe = $6000 BUT,they do not know if the pump is good or not. If bad, another $4000. Even if the pump is good, it is the original so that's on borrowed time itself. Friggin' ridiculous.....

Denis_E55

Do you still have the car or have you gotten rid of it?

VinnyT

Still have it as of now.

Welwynnick

Very confused. How can you have two ABC lines blown? When one line blows it drops the pressure and protects the other lines from failure. They don't happen simultaneously in my experience.
And then a strut? Struts don't blow like hoses do - they can leak - but that's not an emergency, or something that's related to anything else.
Any why would the pump be bad if the fault is a blown hose? If a hose has blown how would you know that the pump was bad?
And why $6k for hoses and subframe (exhaust, prop-shaft, brakes and four bolts)???
And why $4k for a pump?

Are they trying to tell you to go somewhere else?

Nick

maw1124

They are trying to get him to trade the “POS” for a new car so one of the techs can have this one, and the dealership moves another unit.

I was wondering myself how those components in a rather serially connected system all go at once, since the first failure immediately takes pressure off the other components, almost by definition and design.

But the first sentence I wrote was my answer to those questions.

maw