S65 timing chain information needed.
08-15-2018, 08:58 PM
#51
MBWorld Fanatic!
Seen that happen on a newer benz V8 too, main bearing came out the front of the crank. Believe it was either an m278 or m157 engine, newish car, still under warranty. Did the same thing, pushed into the timing gear, ruined the engine. Def not a common failure, I don't know what the cause would really be. Very strange.
08-16-2018, 12:40 AM
#52
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Chain guides got damaged by the timing chain that rolled over the bearing shell and rolled toward the front of the engine until it jumped time and stopped running. Pieces of plastic are parts of the guides that are to the side of where the chain normally slides.
Look closely at the pic of the bearing shell. You can see that the chain rolled off of the crank gear. This explains the chains being so tight.
I want to know what happened that the front main bearing ended up without oil and spun.
The dead lump is off the subframe.... Replacement is dressed and ready to reinstall. Quite the onion.
Don't know how a dealer guy could ever do this job in 26 hours of warranty time.
wow... Hate the bulletin board software that edits what I type... Adds words... Changes spelling to something not intended ect.
Look closely at the pic of the bearing shell. You can see that the chain rolled off of the crank gear. This explains the chains being so tight.
I want to know what happened that the front main bearing ended up without oil and spun.
The dead lump is off the subframe.... Replacement is dressed and ready to reinstall. Quite the onion.
Don't know how a dealer guy could ever do this job in 26 hours of warranty time.
wow... Hate the bulletin board software that edits what I type... Adds words... Changes spelling to something not intended ect.
08-16-2018, 09:07 AM
#54
Im curious to know if these bearings are the same design as some of the Chrysler stuff that have no locating tang protruding from the outer shell of the bearing.
If so, it's possible there was a sizing anomaly that allowed the bearing to rotate slowly over time, eventually blocking the oil passage. (Hard to believe an amg tech wouldn't check every spec but here we are so...)
The engineers say the tang has nothing to do with the bearing holding its position and that the clamping force of the cap is what keeps it in place. Never made me feel very good installing that type of bearing though.
I've never had a M275 bearing in my hand personally. Anyone have any insight?
Just odd to see a main spin. Years ago we picked up a Suzuki Swift GTI that had just been rebuilt and put back in the car but never started. When we started the car it ran for about 20 minutes, sounding just fine before it all of a sudden locked up. Put a ratchet on the crank and it wouldn't budge at all. When we pulled it apart the "rebuilder" installed the main bearings backwards with the half that has the oil passage on the cap side. Still never spun though. Even with absolutely zero oil for 20 minutes.
If so, it's possible there was a sizing anomaly that allowed the bearing to rotate slowly over time, eventually blocking the oil passage. (Hard to believe an amg tech wouldn't check every spec but here we are so...)
The engineers say the tang has nothing to do with the bearing holding its position and that the clamping force of the cap is what keeps it in place. Never made me feel very good installing that type of bearing though.
I've never had a M275 bearing in my hand personally. Anyone have any insight?
Just odd to see a main spin. Years ago we picked up a Suzuki Swift GTI that had just been rebuilt and put back in the car but never started. When we started the car it ran for about 20 minutes, sounding just fine before it all of a sudden locked up. Put a ratchet on the crank and it wouldn't budge at all. When we pulled it apart the "rebuilder" installed the main bearings backwards with the half that has the oil passage on the cap side. Still never spun though. Even with absolutely zero oil for 20 minutes.
08-16-2018, 01:08 PM
#55
Given everything, it seems like lack of sufficient oil supply or pressure is the culprit. Check other mains when you disassemble to see if it is a global issue rather than a single main.
There is an O-ring between the oil pump and the block. There are also sealing rings between the timing cover and the block that could affect oil pressure (flow in and out of oil filter housing).
There is an O-ring between the oil pump and the block. There are also sealing rings between the timing cover and the block that could affect oil pressure (flow in and out of oil filter housing).
08-16-2018, 09:16 PM
#56
Member
Here are a couple "on it's way in" pix. John decided is best that this is a 4 hand job. This process really is the only way this happens. Put the engine on an altar (that is marked and located exactly as the old engine came out), and lower the car over it. Wasn't too bad. I bet there are vanishingly few S65 that have had engine R&R's done by the owner but John's a... special case.
08-17-2018, 02:23 AM
#57
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Thanks for your help today Jay.
The replacement lump went in without drama.
Transmission is in. Wiring hooked up.
More time spent seeing to it that every 6mm fastener, zip tie, clippie is in place to hold hydraulic lines, wiring harnesses ect in place then any other car I have ever encountered.
Any of you familiar with how to disconnect the hydraulic line at an ABC strut?
The replacement lump went in without drama.
Transmission is in. Wiring hooked up.
More time spent seeing to it that every 6mm fastener, zip tie, clippie is in place to hold hydraulic lines, wiring harnesses ect in place then any other car I have ever encountered.
Any of you familiar with how to disconnect the hydraulic line at an ABC strut?
08-17-2018, 02:50 AM
#58
So is that a home shop? How nice. And wheels on that wood support would have been nice to move it out so a hoist could be used to lift the engine off the blocks. Or is a pallet jack handy?
08-18-2018, 10:52 AM
#59
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
She's a runner.
Who among you with a 275 has the dip stick for checking trans oil?
i'd appreciate it if one of you could stick engine oil level when full and post a measurement how far up the stick.
It keeps asking for more oil. Know it to be full. Oil level sensor gets ordered today.
Thanks.
Who among you with a 275 has the dip stick for checking trans oil?
i'd appreciate it if one of you could stick engine oil level when full and post a measurement how far up the stick.
It keeps asking for more oil. Know it to be full. Oil level sensor gets ordered today.
Thanks.
The following users liked this post:
JohnLane (08-18-2018)
08-18-2018, 03:22 PM
#61
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
The following users liked this post:
JohnLane (08-18-2018)
08-19-2018, 02:53 PM
#63
08-21-2018, 02:08 PM
#64
08-21-2018, 06:08 PM
#65
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I have been checking oil level via sliding the dipstick in 25" and comparing with what the cluster tells me. I have added two quarts so far. Let's see if this one has a huge appetite for oil. Zero external leaks. If she's an oil burner let's see if hammering on it a little helps with oil consumption like it did the previous lump. Hopefully without more main bearing drama. *Holds breath.
It runs as nice as can be.... Makes all the power it should. No smoke out the rear.
08-22-2018, 04:03 PM
#67
Super Member
Your noise didnt sound like this did it?
Noise can be heard at 20s+
My noise has gotten progressively better, but every now and then it comes back.
Noise can be heard at 20s+
My noise has gotten progressively better, but every now and then it comes back.
08-22-2018, 07:00 PM
#68
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
Mine sounded much as at 35 seconds in your video. Was a screech noise that I could not trace to a particular spot. Sounded as in the block.
08-22-2018, 10:02 PM
#69
When the car is cool pull the serpentine belt and listen to it again. Thats the only way to rule out pulleys or accessories from the equation.
08-23-2018, 02:28 AM
#70
Super Member
Run it with the belt off, still get the noise.
It almost sounds like its coming from inside the oil filter housing.
90% sure its coming from the centrifgual oil seperator, which is new. I wonder if there is a plastic piece that mates with the camshaft, and that is what broke on OP's car?
A year or so ago, I had an stick open and dump 2 litres of fuel into the sump. I flushed the oil and changed it a few times and It is much better since then. Still makes the noise occasionally, normally when warm.
Edit: found a picture of the engine side.
Here is a picture of the camshaft end:
I wonder if its this piece that is rubbing on my car and making that noise. I could see how that could fail and cause the timing chain to jump.
Last edited by alexanderfoti; 08-23-2018 at 02:31 AM.
08-23-2018, 09:04 AM
#71
in the M275 rebuild video series linked in this thread he replaces that same part you have pictured because it is cracked in a few places
08-23-2018, 09:11 AM
#72
Super Member
It looks like you have to remove the ABC pump to get access to the bolts that hold the separator on the timing cover. HMMM
Maybe not:
Last edited by alexanderfoti; 08-23-2018 at 09:22 AM.
11-16-2018, 02:08 AM
#74
Junior Member
Old lump??
What did you do with old 12? Was looking for a cheap broken engine for table like what was on top gear on BBC year's back. And if anything left I could try to use on my m275. Let me know would be happy to buy and ship it to save what I can for man cave.
11-16-2018, 09:46 AM
#75
MBWorld Fanatic!
Thread Starter
I gently suggest scaring up a 120 bent-12 for your table.... Four cams.... Four valves.... Pretty engine without manifolds and cam covers.
