Hydrolocked! Injector stuck open likely...
So the story begins… I had a recently had a tune done on my S 63 AMG which otherwise is stock. The car was running fine for about a week the tune had done a decent job to the vehicle. I noticed after about a week that the vehicle was running a little sluggish and just didn’t feel right this was just after I had changed my air boxes to the ROW air boxes and also changed my air box filters. So I was expecting the car to be running great but that wasn’t the case it was sluggish didn’t feel right so I decided to hit the Internet to see what I might be able to find as a culprit. I came across the PCV valve as being the most likely cause for the car‘s behavior. And the cars behavior what I mean by that is it was just sluggish and just felt sloppy I guess would be a good way to describe it. So I take off the intake manifold open it up sure enough there’s oil inside of the manifold I clean it up I get new spark plugs and I clean out the injectors and replace the pcv breather valve and everything seems well so I put everything back on and I go to start my vehicle and I hear a click click click click. So I test my starter battery and it is no good. I replace my starter battery and I go to start the vehicle and the car turns over and nothing it wants to crank but nothing. So I try again and I smell fuel abnormal amounts of fuel and I open up the engine and I see that there is fuel coming out of the injectors that there’s a puddle of fuel inside the manifold at the bottom of the manifold and I suck it out with a pump and try to start the car again hoping that that will do the trick and the car apparently Hydro locked. I know this because when I went to start the vehicle it felt like someone basically tossed a wrench into well oiled machine. So I took it to a dealership they told me that cylinder number six and cylinder number two were filled with fuel and that the car was Hydro locked and the engine was basically destroyed and that it was just a paperweight. My baby a paper weight?!? They basically told me to come pick up my car and really didn’t offer much as to how I would repair the vehicle if possible I am they did not ask if I wanted to run a compression test they didn’t test the oil to see if there was fuel in there so basically they just rushed me out of the shop wanting to read them selves of the headache or the unknown of working on an M156 engine. Can anybody tell me what to do now that I have the vehicle back home in my garage. What steps do I need to take to find out the vehicle and its engine is still salvageable. The mechanic told me that he did not start the vehicle they did try and turn the vehicle by hand and he said that it did turn a little bit both ways and he told me that told me that as far as that goes there was nothing else that he could tell me other than that the vehicle was Hydro locked and they didn’t open it up they just used a borescope and they were not able to see if anything was bent or broken. The car was never running before Hydro liked and I am wondering if it’s possible that the cylinder yes did fill up with fuel but nothing major happened to the engine to make itIncapacitated. Anybody with any advice that knows what they’re talking about I would greatly appreciate the knowledge I have much invested into this vehicle and I hate to see it go to a salvage yard after so much time and money has been spent already. This week has been hard 2 deaths in my family and a funeral I feel like running and running. But I know I can’t I have to try so any help would be good thx again fellas and ladies.
I know AMG is better than this.

 

Wow, that was hard to read!!!! Put some line breaks in once in a while!!!!

"I know AMG is better than this." Fine, but is your tuner?

As for hydrolocking, I had a car do that about 25 years ago and it bent a connecting rod. It was a weather event (rainwater got into the intake system) so insurance covered it. Yours, being probably the direct result of modifications, is gonna be your own problem.

As for testing, pull the spark plugs and see if it will turn over by hand with a socket on the crankshaft but. Pulling the plugs will remove any locking by giving fluids an escape. but if it's fuel, you'll be spilling gasoline, so careful where you are when you do this.

If it won't turn freely with the plugs out, then you have what they commonly call "serious engine damage."

 

"and I clean out the injectors"
What does this mean?
Regardless, you'll need to replace or rebuild the engine.

 

If you that someone who is more concerned with my grammar, rather than the post where I’m asking for advice on a cars engine, don’t bother replying. Seriously...it’s nothing personal. It’s not really helping my current situation any and frankly is not of any significance or I would of had a publishing company read thru and make sure their editor proof read it several times.

The mechanic at the Indy said that he was able to turn the engine a bit from side to side. So from what I understood the engine will rotate at least a bit in either direction. Also I don’t want to place blame on my tuner just yet, he has worked with this engine many times. It was a basic tuned file that he has used for other stock m156 engines in the past and with good results. I think the pcv valve going bad was a direct result of the air induction process being altered via the tune and the boxes+ air filters. The car has service records that are well documented and the pcv breather valve has never been replaced. The car has 81k.

In the thread heading it says”my life is over” obviously that is just an exaggeration especially with the week that I’ve just had. I just have invested a lot into my Mercedes and it’s a blow for sure. I’m asking for help not sarcasms or for people to dog pile my ***. With that being said much respect to all on MBworld. Drive well.

 

I cleaned out the injectors with MAF cleaner from a local parts store. I used a injector connector , from one of the injectors, with current from a 12v and sprayed cleaner at the same time as I pressure shot spray from a can and on thru the injector. All of the injectors were in working condition and clean. I think that whole procedure was a bad idea and I regret doing it.

 

And whooshee thank you for the advice on how to...I am appreciative of that part.

 

I agree that cleaning the injectors was a bad idea. Next time send them out to a company like Fuel Injector Clinic for a proper cleaning and test. Hydrolocked typically means one or more rods are bent. The engine will of course need to be removed and torn down to see if the damage is repairable. Sometimes a couple new/used rods can be replaced and your'e back on the road again. If the cylinder walls or block is damaged, you'll need another motor. You can either find a used engine and have it swapped in or go for a rebuild if it's possible. That would be a good time to install the updated head bolts, cam buckets and cams if they are worn. Your old injectors are junk, and I'd consider replacing the engine control unit as well...we don't know if the injector itself failed or the injector drivers in the ECU went bad. It's not worth the risk reusing those parts. The other option is to sell the car as-is with a bad motor, and move on with your life. Ballpark figures- a used engine or rebuild could be $8k-$12k parts and labor as a rough guess, and your car with a bad engine might be worth $5-10k. These are ISP prices, at the dealer expect double that or more.Why didn't the shop you took it to give you a repair estimate?

 

This is correct, and I hope the shop you took it to already pulled the plugs. If not- find somewhere else that actually knows what they're doing.

 

Yeah I know you’re correct cleaning the injectors the way that I did was probably not a good idea and definitely regrettable. From what I understand if the motor will still turn, which I believe it does, based on what the Indy shop said it has a chance. I am just unsure as to how I go about clearing the engine and getting rid of the fuel that’s gone places that it shouldn’t have gone. Do I need to remove the spark plugs because I’m not sure the Indy shop even got that far. I believe they used a borescope to take a look. I don’t think they removed the plugs tho. I feel like they were kind of put off by the whole situation and didn’t wanna investigate much further than they already had. It went in for a diagnostic to see what was wrong and the information I got back from them was that two cylinders had filled with fuel and the engine had Hydro locked they didn’t put it 0BD to scanner on the car to see if there are any codes being shot back. Kind of sucks when you pay $150 in the shop didn’t even go to the trouble ofPutting a scanner into the OBD2 port. when I go to take a look into the engine I am under the impression that I remove the plugs; next do I hand crank the engine? I know that I need to probably change the oil and disconnect the fuses that coincide with the fuel pump and company. Do I just disconnect the injectors altogether and try and run a compression test and see where I am after I run a compression test. I have heard of other M156 owners that Hydro lock the engines, most of them at slow speed‘s, that were able to save their engines with minor damage being done to the engine. My car never ran or went above say 100 to 250 RPMs while cranking. I find it hard to believe that the engine was under that much pressure to cause catastrophic failure to other parts based on the engine hydrolocking. Am I wrong to think that ??I am I just grasping at thin air? I didn’t hear anything break inside my engine and I didn’t repetitively crank the engine once it was Hydro locked and I am certain that the independent shop did not even attempt to crank the engine. Also I am not sure what’s causing the drain in the battery or batteries I should say I think it’s the injector that is stuck open that is causing the drain on the new batteries that I just had installed. But the car is dead and that it is strange being that both batteries not come in the auxiliary are brand new.

 

I am going to do what W Foshee suggested and that has been suggested by a couple of shops I have called as well. So I think he is spot on with starting there but after that what are my next steps? I will keep this thread informed as soon as I attempt to hand crank the engine tomorrow morning. I will pull the plugs and put towels around the spark plug ports to capture any fluid that may escape. The independent shop did say that they tried to remove as much as the fuel as they could but I will try and crank it by hand to see what the result is.

 

I’m not sure why the shop that I took it to did not give me a repair estimate. They were a German performance shop affiliated with Bosch and I figured that this problem was right up their alley. But they seemed put off by the whole situation and kind intimidated. I talk to another mechanic who recommended I find a different shop because of the attitude of the shop that I was currently using. I feel the exact same way. The Attitude theyhad was unprofessional I would have to say. It’s OK no hard feelings I’m glad they did not try and crank the engine Over and over. Umm ... so I don’t know why they didn’t try and look further into or investigate further.

 

Jesus, that was an expensive injector cleaning you did.

The M156 rods will bend into a Z shape usually when they hydrolock, so you can open it up and put rods in it, or look for a good used M156, but either way, the engine is coming out and apart.

 

yeah it sure does appear to look that way. Is this job job that I can do? This is a job that I can do with the right instructions I guess is a better way to put it? Or am I just way out of my league here.I’m not the most mechanically inclined person but I am able to work on a car to an extent I’ve never tried tackling jobs that I felt were out of my range but but I’m not sure where that is exactly especially with these vehicles

 

First off, please be aware that just typing long sentences and filling the page makes your post VERY hard to read. The reader loses their place moving to the next line, and it's hard work getting through your post. I almost didn't bother, but it's obvious you have a serious issue and you actually do not understand what's going on. Look at how I broke your quote up with a few carriage returns and take in how much easier it is to comprehend. Just hit ENTER a couple of times every now and then, we'll ALL appreciate it!

Now as to your points: A mechanical issue such as hydroloc with have NOTHING to do with any electronic codes. If the engine is locked, the computer doesn't care, isn't even aware. Electronics are totally irrelevant until the mechanical issue is taken care of.

Cranking is plenty fast enough to damage an engine that hydrolocs. In my own example with a severe storm (hurricane, actually) driving rain into my intake system somehow, the engine cranked for a fraction of a second and stopped. I had a bent connecting rod and a cracked piston, but the block and head were OK.

You say they used a boroscope. Fine. Those can go into an engine any number of places; the oil pan, intake ports, whatever. Maybe they put it down the spark plug well. Once they determined the engine was locked, there's no point in doing anything else until you decide what to do, either repair or replace. They told you it turns a little bit. Forcing it to turn past that could cause even more damage than is already present. It's up to you to see if it turns at all, with the spark plugs out. If there's ANY resistance or rough spot turning the engine with the plugs out, it's time to pull the engine and either replace it, or tear it down and repair it. There is middle ground of something easier to do.

As for hand cranking the engine, a socket wrench with a long handle on the crankshaft bolt is how to do that. DO NOT CRANK WITH THE STARTER!!!!! Don't even turn the car on, ever again, until the engine issue is settled. As a matter of fact, you ought to disconnect the battery. You (or someone) will need to do that to get the engine out, anyway. The car is dead mechanically, go ahead and kill it electrically.

Don't worry about oil or fuses. Just disconnect the battery. Oil will happen as the engine is repaired. Absolutely no use putting new oil in, and the existing oil may contain clues to damage, like metal parts in the filter or magnetically stuck to the drain plug.

Basically, my best advice, given what it seems you know about the mechanicals, is buy an engine somewhere and have a shop install it, or dump the car as is and move on. Leave the work to someone that knows what's up. This is NOT the place to learn how motors go!

 

I lost how the car got hydrolocked exactly, given the syntax issues discussed above... I didn’t see any mention of a flood or anything else that would accomplish such... and having friends who buy flood MBs all the time precisely because they almost never hydrolock and are easy to fix when they do, I find this all a bit strange... BMWs they say will bend a rod if they smell water... but these, never gonna happen... again unless you rev the **** out of it and run it into the river.

But if the car is in fact locked having not come into contact with massive amounts of water at high revs, then I agree with @wfooshee , engine is done and electronics have nothing to do with it. AFTER you remove and inspect the engine, you might find out how it locked... I doubt it’s hydro... more likely some **** broke off and got lodged in there... but bent rods don’t mean end of life on these things... just spend a few grand and off you go... if you don’t have a few grand then getting rid of this car is the best thing that can happen to you... if you tell me the people working on the car are the same ones telling you it’s locked, well... you should be very suspicious.

Good luck... I for one am interested in what you find... I suspect “mechanic's error.”

maw

 

Guess you missed the part about him locking the injectors open and flooding the engine with fuel as a result? I've seen completely stock M156 engines have an injector fail open, on the startup it bends the rod, as the liquid fuel will just not compress and the weak point is the rod, it goes sideways.

OP, if you aren't able to service the car correctly without damaging the engine, I would not advise you to undertake the replacement of the engine. While, yes, you can do it with time and patience and instructions, so too can you service your own car. Yet here you go, did some sort of backyard injector service and now have a blown engine. I work on cars for a living, this is not a job for all people.

 

Ok thank you guys for your input. I appreciate it all as well as you taking the time to reply. I am certainly certain the injector got stuck and flooded cylinder 2 4 6 I believe.the Indy sucked up all the gas they could.Last night I removed the spark plugs. ( I can post a pic if it’s necessary to view on this thread) and they looked new still. I stuck a suction pump down each spark plug hole and down thru the back of the manifold. It was dry. I think I’m going to try and hand turn it after disconnecting the battery. I want to ren a compression test after. If the engine dries intact crank. Is that a bad move? What do I do if the engine turns manually?

 

Correction: I want to run a compression test if the engine does crank. Good or bad idea?

 

You can run a compression test if it turns over freely by hand. But at this point I doubt you got away without damage.

 

Completely... never heard of this... good to know... @ItalianJoe1 do you even smell the fuel when you’ve encountered this in the past?

maw

 

I don’t really smell any fuel in the oil maybe a slight hint of it but not really sure.

 

I don’t really smell any fuel in the oil maybe a slight hint of it but not really sure.

 

You will smell fuel if it goes out of the engine, but just filling a cylinder, it drains into the oil pan eventually past the rings, so you don't really notice it.

 

Yeah it’s hard to say on the fuel smell. Is that a bad or worse than bad if there is fuel smell in oil? I will keep you guys posted as soon as I get into my engine a bit.

 

Normal to have fuel smell in oil in this case, as you flooded the cylinders with fuel. It has to go somewhere.