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Taking a dive into the W220 AMG community, figured i would introduce myself. I'll be putting together a build thread here in a few days however i wanted to get some advice on different options and opinions on which companies to buy certain parts.
I just put a deposit down on an Obsidian Black over Alpaca grey 2004 S55 with around 120K. I will be trailering it home tomorrow and getting right to work on what it needs. The last owner purchased it from Florida and sent it off to a shop for some work it needed. Apparently he had the oil cooler, lines, and serp belt replaced. Got it back from the shop and hammered on it a few times and he snapped the serp belt and destroyed the idler pulley. Not knowing much about these cars he wants out of it. Thats where i come in.
I went to look at the car Wednesday and it's aired down. He said the car will air up when its running. We got it started and no dice, didn't sound like the compressor was kicking on. The Serp. belt was wrapped around the harmonic balancer and the pulley was non existent.
Here are my first few questions:
I have been looking into different aftermarket pulley kits such as VRP and Fab-Tech. Fab-Tech is cheaper so i may go that route. Are there any benefits to either company or are they the same when it comes to a pulley kit? I understand VRP offers a lifetime warranty with all of their parts which is nice.
I have watched a ton of videos on the ABC suspension so I am going to work my way through that, and when i hit a brick wall I will report back and ask.
Any further info you guys could throw my way would be greatly appreciated to go over once i get the car in my shop. I won't know exactly how bad everything is until i get the belt situation fixed and i can run the car for an extended period of time.
The car itself looks beautiful, the paint isn't a 10 but its in good shape, and the interior is beautiful, just needs a good cleaning.
I'm picking it up tomorrow morning so i will report back with some pictures as well.
I appreciate anyone taking the time to read this and respond, should be a fun journey that i'm very much looking forward to.
'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
Joe, get the car home, get a belt and pulley on it, swap all fluids (including Pentosin) and go from there. Now to your question. Since you're replacing pulleys anyway now is the time to tune if you're interested. If you like VRP, go with VRP. I haven't heard of the other guys, and last I checked everyone was selling UPD hardware with their own software. I'd just go VRP or RaceIQ. In this process the hardware is secondary (it's all a distant second to factory), what you're really buying is the tuner. I went with RaceIQ (83mm SC pulley) and have been plenty happy. If you want more power than an 83mm pulley, I think VRP is next up but I can't really comment on it because I'm not in that camp and don't have that experience.
Either way, you will need to upgrade your coolant pump (do your research) and swap out the supercharger fluid (Mobil Jet Oil, do your research).
BTW, Captain Obvious comment, the car won't stand up because the belts drive the tandem pump which fills the suspension with Pentosin. This is a fluid system, not air, and your seeming not to know that is probably why no one else said a peep. Once the pulleys are attached and the belt is moving and the fluid is changed, she should stand up just fine.
Joe, get the car home, get a belt and pulley on it, swap all fluids (including Pentosin) and go from there. Now to your question. Since you're replacing pulleys anyway now is the time to tune if you're interested. If you like VRP, go with VRP. I haven't heard of the other guys, and last I checked everyone was selling UPD hardware with their own software. I'd just go VRP or RaceIQ. In this process the hardware is secondary (it's all a distant second to factory), what you're really buying is the tuner. I went with RaceIQ (83mm SC pulley) and have been plenty happy. If you want more power than an 83mm pulley, I think VRP is next up but I can't really comment on it because I'm not in that camp and don't have that experience.
Either way, you will need to upgrade your coolant pump (do your research) and swap out the supercharger fluid (Mobil Jet Oil, do your research).
BTW, Captain Obvious comment, the car won't stand up because the belts drive the tandem pump which fills the suspension with Pentosin. This is a fluid system, not air, and your seeming not to know that is probably why no one else said a peep. Once the pulleys are attached and the belt is moving and the fluid is changed, she should stand up just fine.
GL, check back often. Cheers,
maw
awesome maw, thank you for the comments. I’m still in the learning phase but that’s a face palm on my part, tandem pump being belt driven and reason for the car not raising makes complete obvious sense.
I'm looking forward to diving in, will definitely take your advice with a full fluid flush from top to bottom and I’m aware of the much needed upgrade to the cooling system with any kind of power upgrade.
'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
Originally Posted by PHILLYCLSJOE
awesome maw, thank you for the comments. I’m still in the learning phase but that’s a face palm on my part, tandem pump being belt driven and reason for the car not raising makes complete obvious sense.
I'm looking forward to diving in, will definitely take your advice with a full fluid flush from top to bottom and I’m aware of the much needed upgrade to the cooling system with any kind of power upgrade.
I’ll keep you posted and thanks again
No worries. Welcome aboard. Change the filters with the fluid, I forgot to say. There are 2 with the ABC (there's a thread on that somewhere here). Everyone knows about the first one but there's a return filter down below in the bumper. Do that one too, since you have the opportunity for a blank sheet of paper.
maw
EDIT... filters here ... https://mbworld.org/forums/s55-amg-s65-amg-s63-amg-w220-w221/855480-abc-steering-stiff-harsh.html#post8686214
OP just to be clear.... that is an upgrade to the charge cooling system. Important as when turning up power the charge cooling system needs to be able to get more heat out. Bigger charge cooling pump and additional heat exchanger is the oft performed tricks. Your force fed bent eight can go like hell. Enjoy it.
Quick update, she’s back. We had a bit of a time trying to load it onto the trailer with it being aired down so low but we eventually got it without damaging anything. Coming off was a lot easier. Here’s a couple pictures of the car. Lots to do, lots to look forward to!
Looks like you got a good one. Any rear seat options?
maw
Unfortunately not. Seems like a pretty basic spec however I haven't seen very many s55's with this color combo. I think if it was Tan or black i may have walked, and i love black interiors. Something about this Alpaca grey really caught my eye, especially how nice they look when they are new/clean.
I just put an order in on some proper detailing supplies yesterday, hoping to have a 5 piece pulley kit and possibly a belt wrap kit ordered today, and tomorrow I may be going to look at an incredibly nice set of wheels for this car.
I'l be moving everything over to a proper build thread here in a couple days. Thanks for the kind words, looking forward to working and sharing my progress.
Nice looking car. I recently purchased a tuned '05 with similar mileage and took it back to stock. As a result, I have a 83mm UPD fixed supercharger pulley and a Gates-K080505HD Belt (green) with less than 20k miles on them available. They're yours if you want 'em, only ask you pay the shipping.The car had about 135k miles on the clock when I made the switch, and you'll find a copy and paste of the PO's tune installation records below. It's just a snippet of what's been done before and since my purchase. All top-notch stuff and I thought you might find the additional information useful. I'd offer you the TCU but it's NLA. Anyway, the car ran like a bat out of hell with the tune, and the TCU really firmed up the shifts, but I'm more than happy with factory set-up.
Nice looking car. I recently purchased a tuned '05 with similar mileage and took it back to stock. As a result, I have a 83mm UPD fixed supercharger pulley and a Gates-K080505HD Belt (green) with less than 20k miles on them available. They're yours if you want 'em, only ask you pay the shipping.The car had about 135k miles on the clock when I made the switch, and you'll find a copy and paste of the PO's tune installation records below. It's just a snippet of what's been done before and since my purchase. All top-notch stuff and I thought you might find the additional information useful. I'd offer you the TCU but it's NLA. Anyway, the car ran like a bat out of hell with the tune, and the TCU really firmed up the shifts, but I'm more than happy with factory set-up.
So far this community is proving to be one of the best on the board!
Really appreciate the feedback, and yes it sure seems as maw knows his stuff. He'll be a good resource i just hope he doesn't get tired of my endless pestering haha
Moving everything over to my build thread currently. Thanks again Gents!
Before the ABC fluid is changed, you might think about some "just because" maintenance and replace the accumulators. Four of them altogether, two main ones (one front and one rear) and two smaller ones (one on the pump's output line, I don't know exactly where, though, and one on the return line, underneath the car. The accumulators are pressurized nitrogen behind a diaphragm, at about 1500 psi, and when the engine starts, the hydraulic system goes to about 3000 psi, compressing the nitrogen behind the diaphragm. The accumulators provide instantaneous response to the system, keeping the pressure up and absorbing the spikes as the struts compress on bumps; the pump does not operate he system, it merely provides the pressure so the accumulators can do their work.
As the accumulators age, the nitrogen bleeds out and the tanks depressurize. What happens then is that the entire volume of the accumulator is hydraulic fluid, no gas pressure behind it. Hydraulic overloads like a harsh bumps have no place to go other than popping a hydraulic line, and without the pressure in the accumulators, the ABC response is very poor, nothing can extend the struts except the pump itself, and there's not enough response in that. basically, If you have a popped hydraulic line you have a failed accumulator. Replacing the line is no good, it, or another one, will pop later. The accumulators are not terribly expensive, although they can be difficult to get to. You do have to open the hydraulic system to replace them, which is why I say to do them first. It would suck to spend several hundred dollars to flush the fluid and then find out the accumulators are bad. (The Pentosin is expensive!)
My S55 ate the serpentine belt one afternoon. I was less than a mile from home so I drove it home, keeping an eye on the temp gauge. No water pump with no belt... No power steering, either, and this is a heavy beast with no power steering!!!
I'm not clear about your belts situation. The supercharger belt is OK, just the serpentine failed? I wonder if the belt failed and destroyed the idler pully, or if the idler pulley failed and ate the belt. It seems suspicious to destroy it if it had just been replaced!
Before the ABC fluid is changed, you might think about some "just because" maintenance and replace the accumulators. Four of them altogether, two main ones (one front and one rear) and two smaller ones (one on the pump's output line, I don't know exactly where, though, and one on the return line, underneath the car. The accumulators are pressurized nitrogen behind a diaphragm, at about 1500 psi, and when the engine starts, the hydraulic system goes to about 3000 psi, compressing the nitrogen behind the diaphragm. The accumulators provide instantaneous response to the system, keeping the pressure up and absorbing the spikes as the struts compress on bumps; the pump does not operate he system, it merely provides the pressure so the accumulators can do their work.
As the accumulators age, the nitrogen bleeds out and the tanks depressurize. What happens then is that the entire volume of the accumulator is hydraulic fluid, no gas pressure behind it. Hydraulic overloads like a harsh bumps have no place to go other than popping a hydraulic line, and without the pressure in the accumulators, the ABC response is very poor, nothing can extend the struts except the pump itself, and there's not enough response in that. basically, If you have a popped hydraulic line you have a failed accumulator. Replacing the line is no good, it, or another one, will pop later. The accumulators are not terribly expensive, although they can be difficult to get to. You do have to open the hydraulic system to replace them, which is why I say to do them first. It would suck to spend several hundred dollars to flush the fluid and then find out the accumulators are bad. (The Pentosin is expensive!)
My S55 ate the serpentine belt one afternoon. I was less than a mile from home so I drove it home, keeping an eye on the temp gauge. No water pump with no belt... No power steering, either, and this is a heavy beast with no power steering!!!
I'm not clear about your belts situation. The supercharger belt is OK, just the serpentine failed? I wonder if the belt failed and destroyed the idler pully, or if the idler pulley failed and ate the belt. It seems suspicious to destroy it if it had just been replaced!
Thank you for such a well thought out detailed response, its much appreciated.
I have a question regarding the order of the flush, however I could be overthinking this i really don't know.
When it comes to flushing the system and replacing the accumulators with new, here is what I am thinking. Would it or would it not make more sense to first do a full flush of the system with the old accumulators in the vehicle. Then, once there is fresh fluid throughout the system, then replace the accumulators? The reason being is if the entire system has fresh fluid i can then remove the old accumulators, install the new ones, and top off the system accordingly. If I replace the Accumulators first before flushing the system, in theory wouldn't i be running old fluid through the new accumulators? I am only asking because i honestly don't know. I understand they are nitrogen filled and they are not supposed to be full of fluid, but i would have to imagine some of the fluid will be in there at the time of the flush.
I hope that makes sense. I'm sure either way its really not that big of a deal. I'm just over thinking and trying to go about it the best way possible.
To answer your question in regard to the belt, I believe the idler pulley failed and ate the belt. Thats what it appears happened anyway.
08-11-2023 | 03:47 PM
