When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
I've been fighting front-end (feel through the steering wheel) vibrations on my 71K mile w220 for the past couple of months and I'm running out of ideas ---- I would like to ask for your thoughts? The vibration can be felt in the steering wheel at 70mph and above. Its definitely felt through the steering wheel, and changing the transmission gear at speed does not change the nature of the vibration. The wheels are MB 18"x8" Fuchs Segin wheels - not aftermarket.
.
.
New tires - Pirelli 245 45R18 PZero AS3 Plus.
Balanced 3x - Once with Hoffman, once with Hunter using smartweight, once with Hunter WITHOUT smartweight - no change in vibes.
Replaced one tire with a new one after roadforcing that assembly yielded no lower than 33 lbs. Also replaced the wheel with a 5th MB Fuch Segin wheel - no change in vibes.
Re-Roadforced all 4 tires/wheels 2x with Hunter GSP9700. All values less than 15 lbs after clocking the tire w/ the wheels - no change in vibes.
Put the spare tire on each corner of the car, one at a time, and drove 60 miles each time. - no change in vibes - at all.
Changed transmission mount (MB) and motor mounts (MB) - no change in vibes.
Changed flex discs (MB SGF) and center driveshaft bearing along with rubber support (MB) - no change in vibes.
Adjusted front wheels bearings to 0.01mm - 0.02mm - no change in vibes.
Removed LF brake rotor and cleaned the hub and back of rotor hat. This is b/c I measured rotor hat runout at 0.20mm. After cleaning, I measured wheel hub and rotor hat runout to be 0.03mm - no change in vibes.
Changedall the suspension components below in green and got another alignment - no change in vibes.
Guys I am running out of ideas and seek those more experienced than I for help. The vibes cannot be seen on the steering wheel but they can definitely be felt. The vibes are slightly more pronounced when turning the steering wheel L/R at speed (70+ mph). Should I be replacing the lower control arm (red) with the balljoint "post" where the Airmatic struts sits? Would that make a difference? I saw this post from a different forum from 2012 that that joint often has play ----- but my mechanic buddy tells me that that joint is unlikely to cause vibrations in the steering wheel?
You had me at new tires. But it seems you did all the right things to get them balanced right.
Have you tried checking that they are fastening the wheels right? Pushed up onto and against the rotors firmly on the right plane, and bolt straight into the threads in the hub?
Yessir --- actually I am the person that fastens the wheels to my car - every time. The usual drill - pushed up against the rotor hat, fasten bolts in a star pattern w wheels in air, lower car until tires *just* touch the ground, torque bolts to 110 lb-ft in star pattern.... I've had the wheels on and off a dozen times now.
Yes, the vibration can be caused by the components you did not replace. The lower control arm with ball joint is usually the place to start. Looks like you got most of the rest completed. Make sure that all those components were tightened at ride height to ensure proper clocking
If you remember (I am repressing it)....some time ago I was throwing parts at my car for the same reason. Turned out to be a cracked rim (that was not even leaking air - somehow). I mean, we threw everything at the car....it was only found getting new tires.
Yes, the vibration can be caused by the components you did not replace. The lower control arm with ball joint is usually the place to start. Looks like you got most of the rest completed. Make sure that all those components were tightened at ride height to ensure proper clocking
Thanks. I'm most wondering about the "post/balljoint" that the spring/struts sits on (note my Arnott units in the two photographs below). The "post/balljoint" is original to the car - 71K miles. I replaced the big bushing at the inner end of this arm, but stupidly did not think about this "post/balljoint" so if I have to replace this "post/balljoint" I need to replace the whole arm (and would have wasted effort on replacing the big bushing @ the inner end).... so I am wondering if this "post/balljoint" as denoted by the red arrows can cause vibration?
Originally Posted by OldManAndHisCar
If you remember (I am repressing it)....some time ago I was throwing parts at my car for the same reason. Turned out to be a cracked rim (that was not even leaking air - somehow). I mean, we threw everything at the car....it was only found getting new tires.
Hmmmm... I'm with you! I'm throwing parts at the car too .... and I'm repressing my vibration travails with my w124 that I went through some years ago. Do you have a link to your w220 vibration thread (sorry to make you revisit that PTSD!). :-).
OP a shake in the steering wheel can be generated by different forces.... 95% or more of vibrations over 70mph without excessive body motions are going to be those big round things that are our connection between the car and the road. Yup; Tires and wheels.
Another thing that can (exceptionally rarely) make vibrations is power steering. But that will change with engine speed as opposed to vehicle speed and will be less noticeable at higher speeds.
Sloppy body motions are dampeners (shocks); built into the Airmatic struts. I'm not a fan of Arnott; but if they are not having a problem... OK. Dampeners failing is hidden by the car riding on air as air does not have the 'memory' steel coils have. Will be felt at speeds generally over 100mph after driving for a while (The dampener will 'fade' as it heats up) where you may note a vibration that has three or more frequencies simultaneously and stops/ is greatly reduced at legal speeds.
From what I read of your bad vibrations; I would start with dismounting all the tires. When the tires are off of the wheels; each wheel gets mounted in the balancer. Spin the wheel. ANY runout in any of the wheels... Don't bother trying to fix it. Throw the thing away and start over. A wheel that has been 'repaired? Throw it away and start fresh. They have to be hub centric. Hubs that end up with rust between the wheel and the hub; now twenty years on hubs are suspect. The wheel has to fit TIGHT to the hub. Spacers are the devil. Use the right wheels! (Not aimed at you OP... For others who may read in the future)
Thanks @JohnLane and @maw1124. Indeed I measured lateral hub runout at 0.04mm so that's pretty good. @JohnLane I should have measured runout on my refinished 18x8 Forged MB Segin wheels before I mounted tires on them and roadforced them..... but I did not. Lesson learned.
I will bite the bullet and dismount all the wheels and tires and measure runout on all those wheels.
In the meantime I have ANOTHER 4pcs of Segin 18x8 wheels that I refinished that have not had tires mounted on them. I measured three with good runout and one with JUNK runout .... so now I know I have three spare wheels that are good.
Here is the 4th JUNK runout spare wheel that I have for reference - 8mm runout on the inner barrel and 2.5mm runout on the outer barrel!
OK, I'm gonna take the wheels over to the shop and have them dismount all the tires. Then I will bring the wheels home and take my time and spend a day to measure runout on all 4 wheels -
The following day, I will choose the 4 best wheels (out of 4 on the car and 3 good spares) and bring them back to the shop and have them mounted, balanced without using smartweight, and roadforced.
Hah! Sharp eyes. Yes, the 124-036 is my garage queen. 🤣
Progress --- I had the tires dismounted from the wheels. I brought the wheels home and I measured the runout of all four wheels with my dial gauge. They actually look pretty good -- you agree?
This shop is the most professional tire/wheel shop I have used so far --- they insist (properly) on using the lug-centric finger-plate device to secure the wheel to the GSP9700 (not using the rubber press-the-wheel-face-to-the-machine that most shops use).
They checked the roadforce readings and the balance of the wheels before dismounting the tires. Note that this shop likes to balance within 0.10oz instead of the more common 0.25oz that most tire shops use. I find it interesting that this shop says my previous shop didn't balance that well and that this shop found roadforce values that were somewhat (but not grossly) out of whack. Maybe its because the previous shop did not use the lug-centric finger plate.
In the next couple of days, I will bring the wheels back to the shop, have the tires mounted back onto the wheels, re-roadforce and rebalance. If the vibrations are still there then the vibrations would DEFINITELY NOT be wheel/tire related.
Vibrations solved finally! The last step the re-balance of all four wheels (that I verified all had great runout numbers) w tires mounted. The balancing shop:
- Got down to 0.10oz of balance, not just the usual 0.25oz
- BACK Coned the balancer
- Used a SHALLOW angle collet at the back
- Used the finger plate clamp device to clamp the wheel on the balancer using the lug holes on the wheel
- NOT a rubber cup that presses the wheel face
- NOT a front cone that presses the center bore hole of the wheel.
This w220 is SUPER SENSITIVE to wheel imbalance --- perhaps even more so than my w124, which is already super sensitive.
I'm pretty sure the reason I fought these vibrations for so long is because there were several issues that contributed to the vibes - the RF bent wheel that I replaced and the wheel balance.
John we know you secretly want to get back into that .036 life, but with bigger brakes... and a couple turbos... and...
Jokes
maw
You are WRONG Maw! If I were to have another 124-036 grace my driveway it would get molested to make an EV-12 with a high strung 120 and the seven speed box behind it.
Oviously with HUGE brakes. Methinks the Carbon Ceramic brakes found in later model cars would do the trick; though the big wheels required to clear them will make more fun.
Well done OP. Glad you got it solved. Few things are more annoying than that high speed vibration.
Though the way brakes in my 124-036 forever shook was a close second. The 'big brakes' MB fitted the car with were great if the driver isn't a savage. I'm that savage and found the brakes would fade from 140MPH such that at 80 mph there is a whole lot of vibrations but the pads have given up until allowed to cool. Meanwhile the car and it's contents are still dong 80. To the driver this is not amusing.
'06 MB S55 AMG; '04 Audi Allroad 4.2; '05 BMW M3 Conv.; '92 MB 500E
Originally Posted by JohnLane
You are WRONG Maw! If I were to have another 124-036 grace my driveway it would get molested to make an EV-12 with a high strung 120 and the seven speed box behind it.
Oviously with HUGE brakes. Methinks the Carbon Ceramic brakes found in later model cars would do the trick; though the big wheels required to clear them will make more fun.
Because I need another project!
I know... I'm messing... .036 are not for savages
Thats why I keep an M3 around and @Jlaa keeps an air cooled around.
@Jlaa Glad you got it figured out. I would never do the math...I spent thousands chasing the same things....for me (as said in a prior comment) freaking tiny crack in the DS front rim.
Mercedes SLR McLaren 722 S Is Extremely Rare Example Modified by McLaren
Slideshow: A one-of-one U.S.-spec Mercedes-Benz SLR McLaren Roadster became even rarer after a factory-backed transformation at McLaren's headquarters.
