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2012 X164 (5.5) with 120K miles - change trans fluid?
Hi All,
Visiting with friend who has 2012 5.5 GL ... 120,000 miles and has never changed transmission fluid. Nor differential fluids. She said local indie said not to change either.
Given the mileage, what is the recommended course of action ... I'm familiar with the argument regarding changing old fluid, but know the argument is simply that ...
2010 Mercedes GL450; 2000 Mercedes ML55 AMG; 2016 VW GLI SEL Stick!!!
Originally Posted by stephenson
Hi All,
Visiting with friend who has 2012 5.5 GL ... 120,000 miles and has never changed transmission fluid. Nor differential fluids. She said local indie said not to change either.
Given the mileage, what is the recommended course of action ... I'm familiar with the argument regarding changing old fluid, but know the argument is simply that ...
Thoughts?
My opinion is to change, and do a drop pan and filter change instead of flush. I think filter change is a must... Otherwise it's showering and putting on the same dirty underwear.
but some will say if never done it is better to leave it as the shavings are now integral to the transmission components
Visiting with friend who has 2012 5.5 GL ... 120,000 miles and has never changed transmission fluid. Nor differential fluids. She said local indie said not to change either.
Given the mileage, what is the recommended course of action ... I'm familiar with the argument regarding changing old fluid, but know the argument is simply that ...
Thoughts?
ChrisFix on Youtube did a good explanation on why it can appear to trigger a failure when dirty transmission fluid is changed.
He says, if the fluid is old, do a change (~5 quarts, drop pan, change filter) rather than a flush because you don't want to introduce a surge of brand new fluid that may dislodge a bunch of contaminants and plug passages. In other words, introduce new fluid gradually.
The 722.9 transmission is supposedly good and robust, but MB really screwed the pooch making it "sealed" with "lifetime fluid". Consensus I got was to do a standard fluid change every 30k miles.
I did first flush at 90k miles; mechanic looked like he'd discovered a malignant tumor when he told me how black the fluid was. Did a change at 120 (no problems noted on visual inspection, but ECU had shown errors); complete failure at 130. Was my failure maintenance negligence, or that I wasn't exactly kind to the transmission? No good way of knowing.
Here are facts as I understand them:
1) Neglected fluid replacement accelerates wear
2) Hard driving, especially downshifts, accelerates wear
3) With abuse (1 and 2), transmission life is in the low 100's. With TLC, 200+.
4) Fluid changes are always better than not, except for the cost.
Your friend should get a fluid change and use the results to inform whether complete failure is expected sooner, later, or (unlikely) much later.
Transfer case does not need oil changes in the same way as does the transmission, with its wet clutches and intricate passages and sensors. However, it's also cheaper. Clearly the transmission is the primary concern now.
Best news is that rebuilt transmissions are available for ~50% the cost of new. Mine was $5k installed. Give your friend this https://mercedesdismantlers.com/722%209.htm There are others; that's just what I became familiar with. They do slight modifications to the design that were explained in a Benzworld series of posts. Seemed legit.
I think, based on reading- and, I appreciate your comments, I would recommend she have her indie drop the pan, replace filter and fluid. Then do the same thing in a couple of weeks or so. Then one more time after a few more weeks. Option would be to drain TC at some point - assuming it has a drain plug?
2010 Mercedes GL450; 2000 Mercedes ML55 AMG; 2016 VW GLI SEL Stick!!!
Originally Posted by stephenson
Shoot - just found out - its a 2013 with 5.5.
I think, based on reading- and, I appreciate your comments, I would recommend she have her indie drop the pan, replace filter and fluid. Then do the same thing in a couple of weeks or so. Then one more time after a few more weeks. Option would be to drain TC at some point - assuming it has a drain plug?
Well, shoot ... I've ridden it many times and have never heard turbos spinning ... always sounded naturally aspirated. She keeps telling me it is a 2013, though. I'll double check. Probably doesn't make any difference re the trans fluid recommendation, though, does it?
2010 Mercedes GL450; 2000 Mercedes ML55 AMG; 2016 VW GLI SEL Stick!!!
Does
it look like this?
I personally wouldn't bother with the double flush. Just do the single tranny fluid and filter change.
I mean it would be an updated tranny with a different application when it comes to motor. But no major difference. Still same basic tranny I believe.
If hers was a x164, and serviced since new or at least under the new warranty at mb, I'm almost certain the mb dealership would have flushed the tranny at 40k as part of the recommended maintainaince. Mine had to and was at least.
I think, based on reading- and, I appreciate your comments, I would recommend she have her indie drop the pan, replace filter and fluid. Then do the same thing in a couple of weeks or so. Then one more time after a few more weeks. Option would be to drain TC at some point - assuming it has a drain plug?
I'm with kombifan on that one: Just do a single fluid and filter change. Little point in rushing to do another one. It's like $250 a pop.
I don't know, but I would strongly suspect it is a 722.9 transmission, as automakers are loath to change transmissions. The engineering in them is intense. So whether it's a 2013, turbo, diesel, whatever - heck, the Sprinter vans have that trans in them. The 722.9 is all over the place. If you want to be sure, the VIN check data will tell you what transmission is in the thing.
The flush is done by disconnecting the fittings at the cooler and doing an out/in on the trans fluid. At least it was done so on mine.
2010 Mercedes GL450; 2000 Mercedes ML55 AMG; 2016 VW GLI SEL Stick!!!
Online you can run her vin through car fax and see what pops up. Usually not very accurate though. Or detailed.
If all services were done at the dealership you can ask the sa for a vmi on the car. They may or may not give it to you depending if you're the original owner.
What's the purpose of the maintenance records? If she hasn't had the fluid changed in 30k miles, she ought to have it done regardless.
If you're still wondering if it's a 722.9 transmission, run the VIN through one of the MB decoders here: http://www.mercedesmedic.com/decode/ It's a nice idea to do that in any event. You find out the build details.
if you love your 722.9 tranny change oil at 40k miles and then at 100k and then every 50k. the newer ones with the new fluid are marginally better, but i would still change them at the mentioned intervals
ideally while at it drain also the torque converter which holds quite a lot.
similar story with the amg abc system- filled for life, but God help you if you dont dialysis it every 50k miles or so...
if you love your 722.9 tranny change oil at 40k miles and then at 100k and then every 50k. the newer ones with the new fluid are marginally better, but i would still change them at the mentioned intervals
ideally while at it drain also the torque converter which holds quite a lot.
similar story with the amg abc system- filled for life, but God help you if you dont dialysis it every 50k miles or so...
40-100-150 etc. flush about equals a "change" (which replaces about half the fluid) every 30.
Eric - that is exactly what I am gonna recommend she do ... mid ground and every pan full it gets a bit better ... very easy if it has a drain plug. I forgot to check!
40-100-150 etc. flush about equals a "change" (which replaces about half the fluid) every 30.
there’s a drain in the torque converter as well, you have to rotate the engine crank pulley and have someone observe the TC drum rotate until you see a cutout with rubber cap, remove the rubber and drain Tran fluid from there ... so you can do full flush, no partials here like bmw and Audi’s
Transmission service was performed by MB dealer with 66000 KM / 41000 MI clicks. Since then, no additional tranny service has been done (the service manual recommends only one service at the 60000KM / 40000 MI interval, so no surprises there!). I am wondering if I should just change the ATF with torque converter drain or do a flush. The tranny is running smoothly (did I just jinx it?), but it's time to get the old fluid out as I approach the 160000 KM / 100000 MI mark. It is due for Service B anyway and brakes which I am doing myself.
I considered doing the tranny job too as I have most everything except the drain plug adaptor for the tranny pan, but that's on order and will be in hand in the latter part of the month. The MB dealer quoted $600 for the tranny service (in Canadian Dollars, which is equivalent to about 25 USD lol). I didn't think the price was excessively high considering the OEM parts alone will probably be in the neighborhood of 250/$300 with the healthy markups the dealers tack in the north, which leaves about 2 - 2.5 hrs of labour. The car will be going in for an airbag recall which I just recently noticed was outstanding from 2018. This will be the first time my local Benz dealer will see the car (I am prepared for a laundry list of recommended services from them! It lived on the other side of the country for the first 10 years of its life and I have been and will be protective of her wheels rolling into repair shops unnecessarily). I am not overly trusting of the dealer already, as they did not bother to deter me from getting the tranny service done, considering the service manual does not recommend any more work after the initial tranny service. I figured I might give the dealer a little business, get a face to face relationship going with the SAs, and might even score a loaner in return for the day. Not likely or maybe I will end up in a Smart for two.
Looking forward to your thought on fluid train only vs. flush at the current mileage.
IMO if its worth changing the fluid (which after 60k I believe it is), then its smart to drop the pan and change the filter as well. Because of the way the pan and drain plug are made, you're not going to get all of the old fluid out with just a pan and TC drain. When you knock the fill spout out of the way to drain the pan, you have to drop the pan to reattach it anyways.
If you're going to do it, might as well do it 100%.
I might be confused about the difference between fluid change and flush. I thought the fluid change involved dropping the pan, gravity drain TC, change filter and guide, reattach pan and refill transmission. The flush, I thought would require all of the fluid change steps + some fluid under pressure inserted in the tranny to ensure most if not all old fluid would be pushed out of the tranny.
I realize that draining the TQ could still leave 1-2 L of the old fluid in. That's as much as 20+ % of old fluid still in the system, which is a lot imho. A flush, I hoped would displace most of that old fluid, if not all. Maybe I'm hoping too much.
I was a bit hesitant about going the flush route considering the current fluid has been in the tranny for 90000 km and flushing carrying a risk of displacing crud accumulated in the tranny and possibly blocking small passages, which would bring about a whole different set of headaches. A little more mileage on the fluid than I'd like it to be, personally, but I'm feeling more confident and adventurous 😃 about a flush after your comments.
I'd just do a pan drop, filter change, refill and call it a day. If you want to get more fluid out, you can rotate the torque converter to expose the drain bolt and drain that as well. I did mine for the first time after paying the dealer to do it the first 3 times, and after ~50K miles, the fluid still looked good, and didn't smell burned. IMO, flushing is overkill and carries some risk with it.
I might be confused about the difference between fluid change and flush. I thought the fluid change involved dropping the pan, gravity drain TC, change filter and guide, reattach pan and refill transmission. The flush, I thought would require all of the fluid change steps + some fluid under pressure inserted in the tranny to ensure most if not all old fluid would be pushed out of the tranny.
I realize that draining the TQ could still leave 1-2 L of the old fluid in. That's as much as 20+ % of old fluid still in the system, which is a lot imho. A flush, I hoped would displace most of that old fluid, if not all. Maybe I'm hoping too much.
I was a bit hesitant about going the flush route considering the current fluid has been in the tranny for 90000 km and flushing carrying a risk of displacing crud accumulated in the tranny and possibly blocking small passages, which would bring about a whole different set of headaches. A little more mileage on the fluid than I'd like it to be, personally, but I'm feeling more confident and adventurous 😃 about a flush after your comments.
@expl0rer A flush purges fluid in the fluid lines to and from the transmission cooler, and the fluid in the cooler itself. In my opinion the fluid in the cooler and lines is not enough to be concerned with. The pan drain, filter change and torque converter drain addresses the majority of the fluid.
@expl0rer A flush purges fluid in the fluid lines to and from the transmission cooler, and the fluid in the cooler itself. In my opinion the fluid in the cooler and lines is not enough to be concerned with. The pan drain, filter change and torque converter drain addresses the majority of the fluid.
That makes sense. I forgot about the oil cooler/lines, although I did see a shop video of how to get the oil out of there as well just yesterday. Thanks!
03-30-2019, 01:08 PM
