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2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I drove a new BMW I7 and…….
I drove a fairly basic 2023 740i model a few months ago and was not impressed. This all electric I7 that I drove yesterday was fairly loaded and my experience was much more positive, even though I was not thrilled with the color combination or some interior appointments.
The car is virtually silent, even when it came to road noise from the 20” run flats. The quietness was truly remarkable. The B&W sound system was great and the Extended Marino Leather interior was very comfortable and pleasing to the touch, although I would have preferred more of the “Tartufo” colored leather on the door panels and other upholstered areas, instead of all that black. The “Luxury” style bodywork—which is limited to the I7–was to me, MUCH more pleasing than the M-Sport bodywork that all of the ICE models have, which by the way is available on the I7.
What I found most offensive, was the faux “crystal” features in the cabin. From the seat adjustment switches to the gear selector to the approximately 3’ long strip that runs just below the dash and into the door panels, it looks just SO out of place in a German car. To me, it looks cheap, gaudy and is, without a doubt in my mind, a cheesy attempt to woo the Chinese market. Why they couldn’t have made these “crystal” doo-dads OPTIONAL as a package, is just beyond me. I cannot overemphasize what a turnoff these faceted, crystal looking things were to me. I am even coming around to the exterior styling, but I cannot imagine ever warming up to this glitzy, chintzy, 100% missed attempt at trying to evoke elegance. If I didn’t know better, after seeing these ridiculous things, I would have thought that they were obtained from a J.C. Whitney catalog, along with some mud flaps, with the chrome image of a naked woman.
The first two photos are of the car I drove, the last two I pulled off the web.
I dislike the crystal also; of course, it's a non-starter for me in the first place with that ugly mug. I've owned meh, I can live with that. But this car... No.
2022 S580, Range Rover full sized, retired (Ferraris, lamborghini, Bentley, RR, Porsche etc, etc...)
Originally Posted by crabman
I dislike the crystal also; of course, it's a non-starter for me in the first place with that ugly mug. I've owned meh, I can live with that. But this car... No.
Gents, I owned the E60 545i. Before that I owned the E39 540i. With my E39 I couldn’t stop looking at the car when I parked it and even in my garage. Just a classic.
With the E60 I didn’t want to look at…all the angles and curves just didn’t fit. I got rid of the E60 in about a year. The new 7 reminds me of the Bangle era 5 and 7…too much fuss, trying too hard, not a cohesive design (especially the front). Something I wouldn’t turn around to look at after I parked it. A face only a mother could love.
The new 7 may drive really well but IMHO looks do really matter. The looks on the new 7 just don’t do it for me (not to mention the awkward positioning of the B pillar). For me the new 7 is off the list when it comes time to replace my elegant and timeless S580.
My wife had an E60, the first year, 2004 I think it was? Easily the least reliable car we've ever owned. The first one died on the way home from the new car delivery. The steering failed they and didn't know what was wrong; it was eventually shipped back to the VPC where a group of their engineers was going to take a look at it and that was the last I heard of E60 part 1. For part 2 it was one thing after another with the replacement car; really, really, bad. It wasn't just that it broke down; everything always seemed to come to a software reprogram, which they had trouble doing successfully and often took days. I was never so happy to get rid of a car; we literally celebrated, dinner, Champagne, etc.
I didn't drive the new 7, just looked at it a little bit while my wife was checking out possibilities for her next ride. A cursory look was all I needed to know it's not for me.
I like BMWs and have owned a lot of them. I think they’re very well built and have a very distinctive driving characteristic. The touch points all felt very solid to me, the way the door closed, the way the interior buttons felt, and they especially get the suspension right imo both from a driving characteristic and from a isolation/thud perspective. But, I just cannot get over their design direction. It’s like they learned nothing from the Chris Bangle days. Every few decades they seem to jump off the cliff when it comes to design. It’s like some executive thinks a drastic design change can propel new sales from new customers but all it does is alienate their base customers. It’s subtracting three to gain one.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Frenetic
I like BMWs and have owned a lot of them. I think they’re very well built and have a very distinctive driving characteristic. The touch points all felt very solid to me, the way the door closed, the way the interior buttons felt, and they especially get the suspension right imo both from a driving characteristic and from a isolation/thud perspective. But, I just cannot get over their design direction. It’s like they learned nothing from the Chris Bangle days. Every few decades they seem to jump off the cliff when it comes to design. It’s like some executive thinks a drastic design change can propel new sales from new customers but all it does is alienate their base customers. It’s subtracting three to gain one.
I know China is a defining theme in a lot of car design BUT I think there’s still some “Westernization” is design desirability, albeit it’s waning and Chinese tastes—that aren’t western centric—are taking hold. However, out of the three big German automakers, BMW was the only one that made something completely distasteful to one big market in an attempt to gain in another, assuming that really was their attempt.
I think BMW should have kept their German design heritage firmly in place because that is what defines their brand and desirability. Not redoing yourself in an image you think one market wants. That lowers the entire bar.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
Originally Posted by Frenetic
I know China is a defining theme in a lot of car design BUT I think there’s still some “Westernization” is design desirability, albeit it’s waning and Chinese tastes—that aren’t western centric—are taking hold. However, out of the three big German automakers, BMW was the only one that made something completely distasteful to one big market in an attempt to gain in another, assuming that really was their attempt.
I think BMW should have kept their German design heritage firmly in place because that is what defines their brand and desirability. Not redoing yourself in an image you think one market wants. That lowers the entire bar.
I agree, but the bean counters in Munich see that massive market in China and they can’t help themselves. BMW should still be making 7 series sedans that look like this:
We need to research sales volumes of the new BMW 7 versus the S in China and compare that to previous years while also listing western sales volume before and after to see if the addition by subtraction really worked. I would bet real money that the unequivocal answer will be no.
I agree, but the bean counters in Munich see that massive market in China and they can’t help themselves. BMW should still be making 7 series sedans that look like this:
My only BMW was a 2015 750 Li and I loved it. I should have kept it much longer than I did. 35,000 miles then sold it with not a single issue. I traded it for my 2017 S63AMG which I ended up putting 85,000 miles on. Loved it too.
For me personally, all my BMWs were Ms, I never went back after they stopped offering the bespoke engines and other goodies. There was another German brand that was willing to cater to me after BMW gave up real M cars and a(nother) Porsche fan was born.
As to the reliability: BMWs were great when I first owned them but that had gone to hell around the time the new 7 released in 02 or whatever it was, it continued with the 5 when it released, and the 3 was mercifully spared because they had pulled back on Banglization, and figured out the new electronics paradigm. Along with rigorous changes to address initial quality concerns which had driven BMW down into the basement in new car quality surveys you could say the mid 2000s were the low point at BMW. I read it's much better now but the styling isn't for me. It's not just the proboscis; I also don't like the crystal and some of the interior choices. As of today they don't make a car I would buy but I would consider one again if they go a different direction with the styling.
Being a long time BMW owner as well as a very active BMW forums member, I can tell you that majority of BMW owners like the crystal knobs and gear styling. This crystal design was an option on all BMWs to date, obviously until the new 7-series. Almost every owner would get the crystal option added, so I think BMW did the right thing here despite it is not something that 100% of people would want to have.
Am actually surprised you confirmed that the 7-series was super silent - historically BMWs are a bit more noisy when tested by former S-class owners. I am not a fan on the new 7-series design, but am negotiating a deal on a pre-owned certified 2022 V12 powered M760 "7-series" now (previous generation) which in my view is a much nicer vehicle (exterior) than the new one. The motivation here is that the previous generation (2022 and earlier) will be the last 7-seriers ever with the V12 engine and I always wanted the V12 experience. Not a fan of the new 7-series but I love the interior “dashboard design”. I would still daily drive a W223 S-class as opposed to a 2023-2024 7-series if I have to choose between them, but both seem to be a downgrade "exterior styling wise" compared to the previous generation of each. Am not sure what is going on with German manufacturers. I hope Audi won't follow the new trend when the S8 is due for a new generation
Being a long time BMW owner as well as a very active BMW forums member, I can tell you that majority of BMW owners like the crystal knobs and gear styling. This crystal design was an option on all BMWs to date, obviously until the new 7-series. Almost every owner would get the crystal option added, so I think BMW did the right thing here despite it is not something that 100% of people would want to have.
Am actually surprised you confirmed that the 7-series was super silent - historically BMWs are a bit more noisy when tested by former S-class owners. I am not a fan on the new 7-series design, but am negotiating a deal on a pre-owned certified 2022 V12 powered M760 "7-series" now (previous generation) which in my view is a much nicer vehicle (exterior) than the new one. The motivation here is that the previous generation (2022 and earlier) will be the last 7-seriers ever with the V12 engine and I always wanted the V12 experience. Not a fan of the new 7-series but I love the interior. I would still daily drive a W223 S-class as opposed to a 2023-2024 7-series if I have to choose between them, but both seem to be a downgrade "exterior styling wise" compared to the previous generation of each. Am not sure what is going on with German manufacturers. I hope Audi won't follow the new trend when the S8 is due for a new generation
His car must have had the double pane glass or something, but I’ve seen a lot of wind noise complaints on the forums for the new G70.
I’m not a fan of the jelly bean styling of the EQ series, either. I don’t know why MB just didn’t electrify the current S instead of trying to branch off. But I saw an EQS in the wild and it actually doesn’t look too bad. I may go electric next as well or just get one last gasoline S class, assuming it’s offered come lease end.
I agree, but the bean counters in Munich see that massive market in China and they can’t help themselves. BMW should still be making 7 series sedans that look like this:
The reality is, this 7 series is utterly forgettable and it never sold well. People bought this because it was cheaper than the S Class. On the road they don't stand out at all.
Say what you will about the styling of the new one, but it makes a statement on the road and makes a case for why someone would WANT it over an S Class. I have a friend who has a new 7, he's a young hotshot guy and loves cars, has a Ferrari and a Mclaren and he would never buy an S Class, but when he saw the new 7 he had to have it.
I'm warming up to it...but I totally understand why BMW did this. Look at the buzz this car has made...and say what you will about the bangle 7...it was one of the most successful 7s:
As for "bean counters in China" money from China spends like money from here spends. Sedans like this are a dying breed here and they are growing in popularity in China...why would BMW design the car for here? Its a business.
2020 S560 Sedan, 2019 SL450, 2019 E450 Luxury Trim Wagon, '24 BMW I7 on order...
I’ve had six BMW’s and they were all 12 cylinder cars. During these years, I always had at least one other car and usually two or more.
This is the saga:
1988 750il: Got it new and was my favorite of all of them, WHEN it ran right. It had this button on the center console, sort of like a launch control that adjusted the transmission and when used, the car would go like a rocket ship from a standing stop. Then, it started to not idle smoothly. BMW gave me a new one, saying they could not fix it.
1990 750il: The "new" car that they gave me as a replacement. Supposedly brand new, but my detail guy told me that the black car had been completely repainted. If anyone might recall, there was an incident, I believe at the Port Hueneme, CA BMW VPC, where a whole load of cars got severe paint damage and all the cars were repainted. They tried to palm one of these off on me, but I got an attorney and BMW finally replaced this car.
1991 750il: This was the new car they gave me to replace the 1990. I kept it for a brief time and sold it.
1991 850i: Bought it brand new off the showroom floor and drove it to a Christmas party the same evening. On the way home, in the dark, I lost all the interior lighting, instruments, etc. In addition, the gray, leather interior STUNK something horrible. Another example of what can happen when you don't test drive the exact car you are buying. The next day, I was able to stop payment on the check and told the dealer to pick the car up as I was not going to keep it. I told them how BMW had replaced three, previous cars and that I wasn't going to go though that again. They actually did pick the car up, canceled the sale and that was that.
1991 850i: I bought this one used with less than 300 miles on it. Some crazy story about the guy bought it for his girlfriend but she didn't like it or some such thing. This car ran great and I kept it for about a year before selling it. This car caused me no problems. That said, I did not consider it a great car.
1995 750il: When you drove the car at night on the freeway, when you looked out the side windows, into the rear view mirrors, every light you saw was multiplied by THREE. If there was one car back there, you saw SIX headlights. Two cars, you saw 12, etc. I believe this was the first time BMW used the double laminated side window glass. They could not remedy the issue and they bought the car back.
Why I would ever even consider another BMW is beyond me, but things change over time and one day I might go that way again.
Why I would ever even consider another BMW is beyond me, but things change over time and one day I might go that way again.
Your last experience was almost 30 years ago, BMW has changed a lot in that time. They're rated near the top in all reliability rankings I have seen lately, I know many people with them none of which have had problems.
I agree. BMWs are very nice right now, in both fit and finish, quality and reliability, having recently owned one. But their designs are ugly. BMW went full Chris Bangle again.
Picking up the new facelift X5 50e LCI this week to replace our flawless 2015 X5d. Agree that BMW has come along way and the fit finish is exemplary. I used to have all kinds of issues with earlier BMW but not anymore. They are solid now. I love the clean modern look of the LCI X5.
05-11-2023, 11:07 AM
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