Mazhar Shah

Hello all,
Been absent here since I've been enjoying my 2020 E63S without an issues. However.........

The other day I did 3-4 launches using the race launch to show off to friends and the next day I noticed the CEL was on. No leakages, weird sounds, misfires, jerking or any other symptoms at first. Took it to AutoZone and the scan showed p0128 ..coolant thermostat issue.

However, I've noticed slightly less torque and get up and go since then. For instance, in S+ , I feel like the engine is revving in a much higher range and not accessing the torque as soon as before. Not feeling the turbo kick either.
​​​​​​At first I thought it's just my imagination and paranoia, but driving home today I definitely noticed less get up and go. I know the thermostat sensor could be the issue, but why would that impact the get up and go or torque? Or can it impact the turbos?
My coolant level is normal.

Sidenote: after stopping the car, I opened the hood and could hear crackling from the turbos area... Like a campfire lol. Never checked this before so not sure if this is normal or not. No weird smells under the hood.

Thanks in advance for any similar experiences tips or advice!!

PeterUbers

What are your engine temps while driving today? Coolant and oil temps?

your car may be pulling timing because it's not cooling the engine well, dead IC pump possibly or tstat stuck closed. Pulling timing = poorer performance.

Mazhar Shah

Engine temp reaches 200 within 10-15mins of driving and never surpasses 215F.
Not sure where to check the coolant temps.
​​​

PeterUbers

engine temp is coolant temp (water temp aka)

what is your peak boost when you get on it - the cars GUI should give you this info

bad exhaust flaps/actuator is common cause of what you're experiencing but unsure how p0128 would be connected

https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...ons-miami.html

Mazhar Shah

Thanks for replying..that's a great list for reference !
Yeah and the fact that this CEL code came up after I did a few hard launches and scans read coolant thermostat issue makes me think it's not the flaps, but you would know better.
Does coolant thermostat issue affect the torque or rpm range in any way that would explain my perceived reduction in power?

PeterUbers

for some cars, and I'm not familiar enough with the w213, it'll reduce power and put the car in limp mode, see my thread about my w212 amg p0128 CEL experience, my Tstat was stuck open but the engine took too long to get to temp unlike yours.

https://mbworld.org/forums/w212-amg/...-warranty.html

also - real limp mode is not subtle
and if your boost is good, I don't think it's the flaps but curious what your boost levels are

are you under warranty?

Mazhar Shah

Yes under warranty still.

PeterUbers

drop it off and let them deal with it - nice to have an amg under warranty

Mazhar Shah

So I took it to Benz they replaced the coolant thermostat under warranty. CEL fixed. No other codes or issues identified. Turbos and engine ok apparently.
HOWEVER, it still feels different than before all of this. The best way to describe it is, 1) the throttle response doesn't feel the same when pressing on the gas. Feels slightly laggy and then when I let go of the gas, its a very 'soft' and 'slow' rev down. Also the pops/crackles aren't as 'in your face'.
Almost like the original shift points have gotten altered.
So, do you guys think it's worth resetting the TCU? Is there potentially more benefit than harm in doing so?

Mercedes has been brushing me aside And not really understanding what I'm trying to express so hopeful you guys can help me figure it out And advise.

Thanks, much appreciated!

PeterUbers

thanks for closing the loop - that rarely happens on the internet. Added this to the sticky to help others in the future

Techs at the dealer can be brutal - it's unclear what they actually check but somehow certify as "it's all good"

if it's not driving the same, you know best, so something isn't right.

im still wondering about those exhaust flaps. They won't always trigger a warning light but will give these similar symptoms.

did they report a software update? Some people reported after a software update during routine service there e63's had less aggressive popping etc but didn't report any other performance issues.

yeah, reset the tcu or disconnect the battery overnight and then drive it somewhat aggressively for next few days and see if the adaptions improve.

Mazhar Shah

So this actually was an issue before I took it in for the CEL and was hopeful that it might go away.
The active exhaust turn on and off as normal at the push of the button and don't me wrong, there are pops and crackles, just not at the 'usual places'. Again all of the symptoms are very hard to explain objectively but if you drive it daily you can tell your baby feels difference. Accelerations aren't as 'jumpy' either.

So, two questions now:

1) how do I get them to check exhaust flaps after they've told me they're fine if there's no code thrown.

2) I thought I reset the TCU with the 'ignition to position 2, hold has pedal for 10 secs" method, but not sure if that applies to w213. Could you explain how to do that for my car and also the battery disconnection process for me?

Thanks!!

PeterUbers

1) take the car to another Benz dealer citing the low power concern. Or you can log your car independently and evaluate if it's reducing power by pulling timing, wastegate/turbo issues.
no codes and still flap issues:
https://mbworld.org/forums/w213-amg/...ost-power.html

what does your car say it's producing on the performance monitors in the car (horsepower and torque and boost)? I asked this in post 4 and never got a response

2) you can do the "pedal dance" like you know OR pull the negative terminal overnight - does the same thing

Mazhar Shah

The boost meter is filling up appropriately I think.
The HP goes up past 400 on full pedal to the floor in sport+, same with torque. But i don't find that useful because, a) I didn't look at those before this issue so don't know what they would go up to before and b) when I'm really gunning it, it's hard to look at the small HP and torque numbers for more than a split second at a time.

The other Benz dealer in town is garbage and I really don't want to go there.
I'll try disconnecting the negative terminal overnight.
I opened the battery cover and it didn't clearly show which one is the negative one...looked like there was one clearly marked red + terminal and then 3 smaller black connections, negatives? Not sure. Tried googling images of w213 battery terminals but no luck. Any idea?

Thanks again, for the insight and help with this!
If the negative terminal thing doesn't seem to make a difference, I'll take it to them to blindly reset the TCU I guess.

PeterUbers

PeterUbers

here are you options as I see it based on your responses:

1. A poor man's dyno is a dragy, buy this and run the 2020 e63 through a couple pulls and post the slips - we will see what is real vs imaginary

2. find another dealership at your inconvenience and have them check it out

3. Im guessing it may not be in your wheelhouse to log the car with a scanner or logging device

4. drive the car and see if it gets worse

5. have someone drive the car so you see the power metrics inside the car

TugboatBill

I have a 2018 and when the DIC is set up to show HP/torque it'll show ~600hp/ftlbs when I'm on it hard from 40+mph and fully warmed up. If I were to only see 400HP I'd be concerned.

Mazhar Shah

All great suggestions, thanks! So I've tried race launches since I noticed this change in driving dynamics, it's still launches 0 to 60 in about 3.5 and launches as hard in sport plus mode, My issue is more related to I think the points at which it is shifting and as a result the feel between the gears if that makes sense. I did disconnect the negative terminal overnight and haven't had a chance to drive it yet to test will do so shortly and post an update here. Hopefully the TCU was reset and I notice a difference :/

Thanks again guys!!

Mazhar Shah

So I left the negative terminal off overnight. I know it reset things because when I sat in the car it asked me if I wanted to apply my profile.
​​​​​​Anyway, drove it in sport plus. The gear shift points still feel off point, specifically between 4th thru 6th. For instance, holds in 4th gear too long. Won't rev down quick enough when I take my foot off the break, etc.
When I did the race launch, it took off like a rocket as usual and I did look at the HP and it hit 603hp (yay). The race launch felt normal, so engine is ok I suppose.

But I'm convinced the transmission shift parameters or whatever in the TCU have gotten messed up somehow.
Possibly due to the initial coolant thermostat that was malfunctioning or something.

So my question now is, if I take it to a dealer and want them to set the TCU parameters back to favtory default, what should I ask/tell them to do?
​​​​​
Ps( went to dragy website to buy it and figured if it does show the curves are off, I'll still need to take it to Benz, so might as well not spend the $180 and take it to Benz directly lol)

PeterUbers

once you do a TCU reset like you did by removing the battery terminal, it takes at least 100 miles before you can make any meaningful change in the adaptations. To report back here after driving it once is essentially not very helpful. Additionally, in sport plus it is supposed to hold a gears for a longer period of time to presume that you need that instant torque. So I don't see how you're gonna go to your dealer and tell them that it's holding the gear too long if they also think that this is normal behavior for sport plus. We would have to know what it's doing in other driving mode, such as comfort and sport.

What is the behavior like in comfort and in sport mode?

when is the last time this car behaved the way you wanted to drive? You mentioned that it was unclear to you when it transitioned to this new way of driving and reacting to your pedal inputs.

The whole point of getting a draggy was to determine if the car is low on power for some reason, but then you clarified even further that this is not a power issue. This is a shifting issue. The story continues to evolve as you give more input I'm sure it'll continue to evolve as you explain things further. Your initial title of this is check engine light with less torque indicating less power. Then you corrected yourself saying it's getting the right 0-60 time and it's not a power issue. It's now a shifting issue.

Mazhar Shah

That is an accurate summary. As you can see I am trying to figure it out. I am sure things will evolve. Will let you know if they do after driving a while. Obviously I have been wrong in my assessment a couple times, being that I'm not a mechanic and going by just my feel of the car. Will look into dragy. Thanks.

Ps: the original post was from when I had the CEL and before I took it to Benz after which they replaced the coolant thermostat.

taphil

Holding gear and high rpm for a few seconds after mashing the pedal happens on both my 63s in comfort and sport mode.

Mazhar Shah

Good to know, thanks!

PeterUbers

Is your e63 tuned? Ecu, tcu, cpc?