Just got back from Europe and had a great AMG Experience day on Friday at the Mercedes Test Center. Sorry, we weren't allowed to take pictures outside of the staging area due to all the proprietary stuff roaming around. It's an impressive facility. The whole thing used to be a tank training ground for the German Army until Mercedes bought it and turned it into their test center. They built a 60 km road network on it with road conditions from all over the world to test their cars, along with a quite technical racetrack that borrows features from many tracks around the world, and a high speed banked oval. We didn't get to drive on the latter and only drove on the normal roads to get to and from the staging area to the racetrack and the dynamic driving area. They had a photographer, so we are gonna get photos from the whole event eventually. We had one causality with one of the participants flying off the track and ditching one of the GTs in the gravel. They didn't get to participate anymore for the rest of the day, so my co-driver and I ended up each getting our own cars in the afternoon and didn't have to switch drivers throughout.

The fleet of cars consisted of the C63 SE, CLE 53, GT 63 and the EQE 53. If you are interested in my thoughts on the GT 63, check out my post there. https://mbworld.org/forums/coupe-roa...ml#post9033453. Most of what I said about the interior applies to the C63 as well, so I'm not gonna repeat it here. The C63 suffers from the same issues and as I said, I didn't like the new AMG performance seats as much.

So let's get to the elephant in the room. My group started out the day driving the C63 SE as the first car. I'm not gonna repeat what others have already said in previous threads. They are mostly on the money. I'm gonna focus on a couple of things I picked up that weren't mentioned before. First off, next to the CLE and GT, the C63 was the least impressive looking car. Rather boring actually next to the CLE 53 and GT 63 with their wide tracks and hips and stance. Not too surprising, as the AMG sedans never really made my heart beat faster. The biggest surprise was actually the CLE 53. More to that later, but a great looking car. Clearly resembling the C205, but dialed up 5-10%. Very aggressive looking and not as big as I expected.

As for the C63, on the positive side, it does a good job managing the weight. The suspension is great. It did well around corners on the track, but the weight was ever so present when braking. Felt like the rear wanted to pass the front when braking hard. Overall, they clearly worked hard on the suspension to make this thing handle decently. The other positive thing was that it sounded better than I expected. Admittedly, most of it was pumped in through the speakers, but to be honest, the lack of V8 sound was the least of my issues. We also didn't have any issues with the cars. Looks like they sorted out the turbo failures and such in the meantime.

However, let's get to the issues of this car. It's a definite hard pass from me. Driving it confirmed pretty much everything I said before and what others have pointed out. Full disclosure, I only drove it in S+ and Race to see how it does on the boil. Driving it in hybrid mode etc. isn't really interesting to me. This is a performance car, so if I wanted to drive in electric or hybrid mode, I'd get a normal hybrid for everyday driving. The performance driving is where this thing falls short. It is fast in a straight line as others have already said, so I give credit where credit is due. It's the fastest straight line C63 ever that's for sure. However, the biggest issue was all the lag in the powertrain, even in Race mode. For starters, the transmission shifted super harsh in Race mode. I mean I like when the transmission yanks in the gears when driving hard, but this was just harsh with no benefit. At the same time, the shifts were very delayed. I drove it primarily in manual mode as I do my own C63. Every shift in manual mode was delayed. I kept running into the rev limiter. Not just due to the busy instrument cluster and unintuitive rev gauge as I mentioned in my GT impressions, but also I had to shift well before redline to make sure the shift took place before it hit the rev limiter. It was back to what I hated about the 7-MCT. You press the paddle, but it takes a second or so for the shift to actually take place. This alone makes this car a no-go for me. My co-driver drove it in automatic mode, so other than the hard shifts, it shifted fine. So if you are mostly driving it in automatic mode, you may not find this to be an issue.

In addition to the delays of the main transmission, there was the delay of the 2-speed transmission on the rear axle. At 120 kph, it shifted to the 2nd gear and to do that it cuts power during the shift. It seemed to coincide with when I had to shift into a higher gear. Don't remember what gear, but at that moment I had the delay of the main transmission shifting, and then just as it finished the shift the car wouldn't actually go. Power gets cut for what seems an eternity until the rear transmission is in 2nd gear and then it finally takes off. It feels like traction control kicking in. All this really highlighted the complicated nature of the powertrain. You become aware that a lot is happening under the hood to coordinate the working together of the ICE and the e-motor with the two transmissions and you really have to ask what are the benefits of all this. On paper they boast great CO2 numbers during the WLTP cycle, but it's already come to surface that in the real world, this thing doesn't use less fuel than the predecessor, so the CO2 emissions are only good on paper. There's a thread in the AMG Private Lounge documenting that the fuel economy of the C63 SE isn't any better than the W205, so at the end of the day it spews out the same amount of CO2. I guess it gets better if you do all your daily driving in electric mode, but where's the fun in that?

I promised more on the CLE 53. The second car we drove after the C63 SE was the CLE 53 and therein lies the crux. I liked it much more than the C63 SE. It felt lighter on its feet and drove much better. It has less power obviously, but a much better response. I forgot just how nice an inline 6 engine feels. The transmission also was better, even though it has a torque converter. First time I preferred a torque converter over a clutch after driving the C63 SE. While still a bit laggy, it shifted better than the C63, but the whole thing was just so much more cohesive. No funky delays or power getting cut during a shift, and did I mention how nice an inline 6 feels? Some of the difference obviously comes down to coupe vs sedan. For starters the lower seating position in the CLE just feels better. It's just more of a cockpit feel in a coupe vs a sedan. I feel the same about the W205 vs C205. On top of that comes the lower roof line and the wider track. A coupe just feels sportier to drive. The CLE just hunkered down way better than the C63 SE. So some of this comes down to my preference for coupes over sedans. I don't really like the W205 sedan, either as far as the handling and driving feel goes compared to the coupe, but it doesn't have the powertrain issues that the W206 has. However, there's something to be said about the 53 having a better driving experience than the C63SE. I fail to come up with a good reason why one would buy the C63 SE over the CLE 53 other than needing 4-doors, but then the C43 might actually be the better car.

 

Very detailed impressions, thank you.

 

Awesome review, thanks! Sounds like a great time! How did the C63 and CLE compare to the EQE AMG?

 

https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c63s-...ml#post8699340
https://mbworld.org/forums/eqe-v295-...ml#post8710005
https://mbworld.org/forums/s-class-w...ml#post8714862

 

Thanks @W205C43PFL for posting links to my previous takes on the EQE AMG. What I would add to this is that I'm already bored of the EQE and haven't even owned it. I've had several regular EQS and EQE loaners in the meantime and that was enough to bore me. We did timed autocross laps with the EQE this time and it was wet because it had rained just before lunch. It was my least favorite part of the day. The EQE is just way too heavy and I was constantly aquaplaning trying to get a good time. It's just a total boat of a car. As I said previously, EVs are very one-dimensional. They have a fast straight line acceleration, but that's about it. Once you've experienced it a few times, the novelty is kinda gone. That's where I am with the EQE AMG.

 

You're welcome and I see, bored of the EQE already? Weight? If it was the EQS it could had been worse I guess : (

 

Yeah, I had a chat with my co-driver. It was his first time in a performance EV and he did not like it at all. We both kinda agreed that we are not sure who these performance EVs are really for. It kinda goes against what a performance car is. Yes, you can easily get insane power with an EV, but weight kills performance outside of a straight line and if you drive these cars hard, you just end up at the charging stations constantly. I occasionally play with ABRP and recreate some of my past road trips with various different EVs to see what the charging would be like. I particularly do this for the road trips I have done through Europe with driving on the German Autobahn. ABRP allows you to set the maximum speed you intend to travel, so on the German Autobahn you can yank it up and see what it does to the trip. What you'll find if you do that is the faster you intend to drive, the longer the trip takes, because of all the additional charging. So you have all this performance in these cars to drive fast and shave off time, but if you actually do it, you just make your trip longer instead of shorter. Yes, with an ICE you'll empty the tank quicker, too at these high travel speeds, but it only takes a few minutes to refuel and you are back on the road.

 

I guess, people buy these if they want an electric vehicle that is like the fastest Tesla but want better build quality and luxury.

For those who prefer just speed, then they probably got with Taycan, not a Mercedes.

Those who buy EVs in the first place could be because they like having to charge instead and don't have to ever smell gasoline or visit the petrol station or their commute just is better that way, they also want to save on gasoline cost, probably maintenance (at least short term) with no more engine oil changes, etc.

Those that have a transmission, like Taycan will still need to do ATF obviously.

Then there are other benefits of EV, like HOV lanes are open to electric vehicles even if there are only one person in the vehicle, the government incentives. In MB's case, there are so many incentives and the EQ is way cheaper in both interest and monthly payment compared to the equivalent ICE in the lineup, or if not equivalent, very similar. Although the latter benefit really is only true in MBUSA's market.

Obviously there are cons, the infrastructure isn't quite there yet, the battery technology, the charge time, the range, the range anxiety in extreme temperatures (ie. winter), not all electricity is produced through low emission or renewable energy, the insurance cost (due to replacement price of the battery), not the same type of enjoyment as ICE, some dealerships are still inexperienced in repairing EQ vehicles and parts back-ordered more common than ICE, etc.

 

I forgot to mention (or so I heard) EVs are more efficient in stop and go traffic but opposite on highways compared to ICE.

 

Yes, I understand that. An EV can be a great commuter car combined with home charging. But I'm talking about performance EVs and not EVs in general. The performance EVs suffer massively from the weight of the battery and the lack of energy density. Using them as performance cars brings those downsides to the surface. Lack of energy density means the fun is over quickly and requires a lengthy charging stop, and the driving dynamics are just not there due to the weight of the battery. Buying one of these and then simply using it as a commuter car seems a total waste of money and resources. If you ever get to drive on the German Autobahn, one thing you'll notice these days is that all the EVs drive slow on the Autobahn. They know that they won't get far if they start driving fast, so why buy a performance EV if you are not going to drive it fast regularly?

 

Appreciate your reply and sharing your thoughts, I agree but with the way how it is going, the regular ICE performance vehicles are gaining too much weight as well like the C 63 S E Performance, the GT 63 S E Performance, the new GT 63 E Performance, SL 63 E Performance and on the other side, the new M5 Competition.

Unless we can have pure ICE performance vehicles in the new era, it too is too much weight, the weight of the electric motor, the battery, the transmission, the ICE and apparently all-wheel drive is the new trend in performance vehicles as well, for some reason.

The pure EV performance vehicles at least don't have the weight of the ICE but I guess the weight is then gain back from a bigger battery pack then the E Performance drivetrain in the ICE.

 

Agreed, and I kinda include the performance hybrids in what I said. The only benefit they have is that the energy still mostly comes from fossil fuel in them and they can be quickly refueled and for example with the AMG E Performance models in Race mode the engine keeps the battery charged. You can literally start a lap with an empty battery and at the end of the lap the battery is full. This does make a difference at least in usability. For context, I'm currently not aware of any EV that manages even two full laps around the Nürburgring with a single charge, so these cars are rather pointless on the track. Who wants to spend over an hour after every 1.5 laps to charge it up to 100% again to get another 1.5 laps? Not to mention that I'm not aware of a track that even has DC fast charging on site, so where are you going to recharge it?

Personally, I like to go canyon carving, but I couldn't do that with any of these so-called performance EVs w/o running out of battery in the middle of nowhere w/o anywhere to charge it. So they are simply not usable for actual performance driving beyond the occasional squirt up an on-ramp or some traffic light racing.

 

Great points, is this why Formula E failed?

 

Partly yes. Formula E is a ridiculously short race compared to Formula 1. It's over before it has really started. At least these days they manage it with a single car. At the beginning they needed two separate cars to complete a single race. Nobody really wants to watch vacuum cleaners do a few laps before running out of charge.

 

I see, I figured. Are pit stops even a thing in Formula E? I can't recall, or the battery doesn't last longer than the tires?

 

Good find. Your impressions are pretty closely related tow what I felt.

Its not a bad car the C63, just not for me.
Interesting thoughts on the CLE53, I hope it makes its way to Brazil so I can play in one

 

OP, I just realized you mentioned the W206 C 43, despite not having the complexity of the E Performance drivetrain, it is sadly still having transmission issues including but not limited to jerky, slow shifts, harsh shifts, maybe the W206 C 43 is a better car than the W206 C 63 S E Performance yes but it is not enough: https://mbworld.org/forums/c63-c43-a...ml#post9033615

The post linked includes a link to another website.

The CLE 53 makes much more sense in terms of both price point and the overall package than both of them... if you don't need four doors, like you mentioned.

 

I drove the GLC43 AMG (we don't get the C43 AMG here). Its the same story as the C63, in fact, its far more clunky in terms of transmission. Its a mess.

The transmission on the C63 on the road, did not feel slow. But on the track, I very often incurred in the same problem as the OP, transmission was slower on upshifts than I expected. It reminds me of the old MCT transmission (but far less of a problem). But now it shifts up automatically as well so you don't hit the rev limiter.

Its weird. The electric system too is far too complicated.

 

I mean it has a first of a lot of things, mainly the first e-turbo on a road legal vehicle.

 

Just received the photos of the whole event. Enjoy!

https://1drv.ms/a/s!AuRzDfED_xGBk940...dg3og?e=z6qFJp

 

Guys, here is the "real" C 63 S, meet the "Red Pig" based on the 205 platform C 63 S: