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Hi picked up a 1990 sl500 have not done anything to the car yet except drive it. open the roof manually a few times I traded another benz for this I have done a lot of searching on here ,I have replaced all fuses with copper ones o and the roll bar doesn't work . I have checked the modules are there, the pump is under spare tire now where to start. I have a multi meter know how to use it. just wondering where I start I have not done the window thing holding the two window buttons in the up position 10 seconds to set them up, there is no light on the red button when I push it to open
or to close the roof there is on light on the roll bar when I try to manually use the button like it is dead too the 30 amp fuses are good power there
there is no clicking from module at all the windows work but the one touch on the drivers side doesn't work the climate control doesn't work not sure if that is related I just built a tester to check if there are codes there obd1 can any one get me on the right path to start the trouble shooting on theses problems Thanks in advance Chris
03 SL Kleemann, 97 SL320 pano top, 95 Lorinser E320 Cabrio, Ferrari 360, Tesla X
Originally Posted by chrishall
Hi picked up a 1990 sl500 have not done anything to the car yet except drive it. open the roof manually a few times I traded another benz for this I have done a lot of searching on here ,I have replaced all fuses with copper ones o and the roll bar doesn't work . I have checked the modules are there, the pump is under spare tire now where to start. I have a multi meter know how to use it. just wondering where I start I have not done the window thing holding the two window buttons in the up position 10 seconds to set them up, there is no light on the red button when I push it to open
or to close the roof there is on light on the roll bar when I try to manually use the button like it is dead too the 30 amp fuses are good power there
there is no clicking from module at all the windows work but the one touch on the drivers side doesn't work the climate control doesn't work not sure if that is related I just built a tester to check if there are codes there obd1 can any one get me on the right path to start the trouble shooting on theses problems Thanks in advance Chris
Hello Chris,
welcome to the forum! That's a lot of information in your post, but it is very hard to follow for most forum readers. You will get a lot more help on this forum if you make your posts more structured, and without run-away sentences that are too easily misunderstood. The idea is that everyone can follow this thread and learn something from it.
03 SL Kleemann, 97 SL320 pano top, 95 Lorinser E320 Cabrio, Ferrari 360, Tesla X
One more simple thing to check: see if the horn works. In early model years like yours, the horn is connected to fuse #7 in the engine compartment, which also supplies power to some of the controller's functions.
03 SL Kleemann, 97 SL320 pano top, 95 Lorinser E320 Cabrio, Ferrari 360, Tesla X
Hello Chris,
have you had a chance to work on this issue? It would be nice to get a progress report or closure on this thread, as it is supposed to be for everyone's benefit.
I just joined MBW tonight and wanted to let you know I'm very impressed with your diagram you provided for Chris. I hope he was able to get his top working and will come back to report his progress.
I bought my little '95 SL500 in December and the top was inoperable. It was such a cute little car and well maintained otherwise so I thought it would be fun to play with.
I thought I would be able to fix the top for less than the astronomical price the dealer told me it would probably cost.
So...for the last 4 months I have been reading your posts as I researched and I have to say "You're the BEST!!!!"
Thanks to reading many, many, many of your posts, I was able to rule out certain things and finally I came to the conclusion based on experiments and results and process of elimination, that it must have something to do with the hydraulic pump.
In my mind I thought...well, it needs to have the fluid changed cleaned out and I can do that myself. I tried a couple of things that I could tell made a difference. Replacing fuses, resetting windows, etc. Disconnecting the battery, all that jazz.
Finally I called a Mercedes auto repair shop and asked them how much they'd charge me to top off my hydraulic fluid. They said nothing. To just bring it in and no charge. Smoking deal! Right?
LOL
So, I took it in and right away they told me the fluid reservoir was totally empty. That told us a lot. Leaks. They said the left rear cylinder was leaking and it would cost $1,500.00 to fix it. That was for just ONE cylinder!!!
Yeah right! But the guy at the repair shop was very nice when I explained to him that I couldn't afford to pay that for just ONE cylinder, when I knew I could buy a rebuilt one.
So he told me about a friend of his who specialized in tops. Gave me his number. I called him up and $300 later my top is working perfectly now. They fixed 3 cylinders and I will probably have all of them rebuilt eventually.
So...that's my story.
I'm so happy to find such a recent post from you that I could reply to because I admire so much the way you help people and I think one day I will probably be needing your help.
I love my little car so much. And especially now that I can ride around in it with the top down! YAYYY!
Sorry for such a long 'first post' but I couldn't find the welcome thread anywhere.
Cheers Klaus!
Originally Posted by Top Hydraulics
Hello Chris,
welcome to the forum! That's a lot of information in your post, but it is very hard to follow for most forum readers. You will get a lot more help on this forum if you make your posts more structured, and without run-away sentences that are too easily misunderstood. The idea is that everyone can follow this thread and learn something from it.
03 SL Kleemann, 97 SL320 pano top, 95 Lorinser E320 Cabrio, Ferrari 360, Tesla X
Welcome
Hello Lady Jazz,
welcome to the forum! Wow, that was a thorough introduction.
You have obviously done your research, since you already know that you will have more cylinders failing. Typically, ALL cylinders with original seals will be failing in short order once you find any of the ten rear cylinders failing. You get a package deal from Top Hydraulics, plus your mechanic should be giving you a break on labor when you have all twelve cylinders rebuilt at the same time (11 cylinders for model years '97+).
Indeed, you get parts from Top Hydraulics that are better than brand new ones, on account of all upgraded seals inside.
Model years 90-96 have twelve hydraulic cylinders that move and lock the roadster soft top. The original seals in the hydraulic cylinders, aka rams or actuators, will eventually fail in every R129, unless it gets wrecked prematurely, even if you never drive the car or have never used the top before.
Rebuilding these cylinders is NOT a matter of changing o-rings. Every R129 cylinder has one o-ring, and those rarely ever fail. What fails most frequently, are the other seals, which have special shapes for proper function. Top Hydraulics replaces and upgrades ALL seals in the cylinders with superior material:
1) Rod seals. They are cup-shaped and seal the piston rod from the rest of the cylinder. When they fail, you will see fluid coming out next to the chromed shaft (rod). These are usually the first seals to fail in the cylinders.
2) Piston seals. They seal the input and output sections from each other, as the piston slides through the cylinder. The piston seals have been made of different materials and sizes even in the same p/n cylinders throughout the years. Failing piston seals will cause internal leaks, which result in a pressure drop in your hydraulic system. Early model years have the added problem that the piston seals swell up and make it very hard to move the piston inside the cylinder. Crumbling piston seals can block valves or pinholes inside the hydraulic system, and it can be difficult to diagnose a piston seal failure without testing several cylinders once you find that your top is moving slowly or not at all.
3) Cap seals. These are just o-rings that seal the top cap of the cylinder from the housing. They are usually the last seals to fail, but these o-rings are penny items.
4) Port seals. They seal the hydraulic lines where they are pushed into the cylinders. Port seal failure is becoming more and more common as the R129s age. It also applies to the front distributor p/n 1298000022. Port seals have a special shape that makes them seal under pressure. O-rings wouldn't do the trick. They are secured by precisely machined brass rings (accuracy about 1/100 mm). DIY removal of the brass rings will almost certainly destroy the brass rings. Top Hydraulics installs port seals that are tighter than the originals, just in case the hydraulic line fittings have been scratched.
Cylinders and distributors upgraded by Top Hydraulics should easily outlast your car!
For future readers, please make sure not to let your shop do their own "rebuilding", or to let them send the cylinder to some guy they know. There is a huge difference in quality, and some guys even try to get away with just using o-rings...
Cylinder part numbers: 1298001672 (A 129 800 16 72) front lock cylinders mounted in locks 1298000774 (A 129 800 07 74) and 1298000874 (A 129 800 08 72) 1298000072 (A 129 800 00 72) tonneau cover lock cylinders (also rear lock cylinders in model years '90 and '91) mounted in locks 1298000374, 1298000474, 1298000574, 1298000674, 1298001574, 1298001674 1298002172 (A 129 800 21 72) rear lock cylinders (in model years '92-'02) mounted in locks 1298001174, 1298001274, 1298001774 1298002072 (A 129 800 20 72) tonneau cover cylinders 1298000272 (A 129 800 02 72) main lift cylinders 1248000272 (A 124 800 02 72) right bow extension cylinder in model years '92-'02 1298001872 (A 129 800 18 72) right bow extension cylinder in model years '90 and '91) 1298001772 (A 129 800 17 72) left bow extension cylinder 1298000022 (A 129 800 00 22) distributor between the two front locks
welcome to the forum! Wow, that was a thorough introduction.
You have obviously done your research, since you already know that you will have more cylinders failing. Typically, ALL cylinders with original seals will be failing in short order once you find any of the ten rear cylinders failing. You get a package deal from Top Hydraulics, plus your mechanic should be giving you a break on labor when you have all twelve cylinders rebuilt at the same time (11 cylinders for model years '97+).
Indeed, you get parts from Top Hydraulics that are better than brand new ones, on account of all upgraded seals inside.
Model years 90-96 have twelve hydraulic cylinders that move and lock the roadster soft top. The original seals in the hydraulic cylinders, aka rams or actuators, will eventually fail in every R129, unless it gets wrecked prematurely, even if you never drive the car or have never used the top before.
Rebuilding these cylinders is NOT a matter of changing o-rings. Every R129 cylinder has one o-ring, and those rarely ever fail. What fails most frequently, are the other seals, which have special shapes for proper function. Top Hydraulics replaces and upgrades ALL seals in the cylinders with superior material:
1) Rod seals. They are cup-shaped and seal the piston rod from the rest of the cylinder. When they fail, you will see fluid coming out next to the chromed shaft (rod). These are usually the first seals to fail in the cylinders.
2) Piston seals. They seal the input and output sections from each other, as the piston slides through the cylinder. The piston seals have been made of different materials and sizes even in the same p/n cylinders throughout the years. Failing piston seals will cause internal leaks, which result in a pressure drop in your hydraulic system. Early model years have the added problem that the piston seals swell up and make it very hard to move the piston inside the cylinder. Crumbling piston seals can block valves or pinholes inside the hydraulic system, and it can be difficult to diagnose a piston seal failure without testing several cylinders once you find that your top is moving slowly or not at all.
3) Cap seals. These are just o-rings that seal the top cap of the cylinder from the housing. They are usually the last seals to fail, but these o-rings are penny items.
4) Port seals. They seal the hydraulic lines where they are pushed into the cylinders. Port seal failure is becoming more and more common as the R129s age. It also applies to the front distributor p/n 1298000022. Port seals have a special shape that makes them seal under pressure. O-rings wouldn't do the trick. They are secured by precisely machined brass rings (accuracy about 1/100 mm). DIY removal of the brass rings will almost certainly destroy the brass rings. Top Hydraulics installs port seals that are tighter than the originals, just in case the hydraulic line fittings have been scratched.
Cylinders and distributors upgraded by Top Hydraulics should easily outlast your car!
For future readers, please make sure not to let your shop do their own "rebuilding", or to let them send the cylinder to some guy they know. There is a huge difference in quality, and some guys even try to get away with just using o-rings...
Cylinder part numbers: 1298001672 (A 129 800 16 72) front lock cylinders mounted in locks 1298000774 (A 129 800 07 74) and 1298000874 (A 129 800 08 72) 1298000072 (A 129 800 00 72) tonneau cover lock cylinders (also rear lock cylinders in model years '90 and '91) mounted in locks 1298000374, 1298000474, 1298000574, 1298000674, 1298001574, 1298001674 1298002172 (A 129 800 21 72) rear lock cylinders (in model years '92-'02) mounted in locks 1298001174, 1298001274, 1298001774 1298002072 (A 129 800 20 72) tonneau cover cylinders 1298000272 (A 129 800 02 72) main lift cylinders 1248000272 (A 124 800 02 72) right bow extension cylinder in model years '92-'02 1298001872 (A 129 800 18 72) right bow extension cylinder in model years '90 and '91) 1298001772 (A 129 800 17 72) left bow extension cylinder 1298000022 (A 129 800 00 22) distributor between the two front locks
Hi Klaus! Wow! What a wealth of information you just sent to me. I do think my guy just used the O rings. That's how they 'rebuild' them.
I totally trust you as I have read so many things posted over the years about how happy your customers are.
I'm a 'girl'. LOL I don't have anyone to take these things out for me. There's certain things I can do and other things I am afraid to try to do. This is one of them. I'm wondering if I can coordinate with my mechanic to just take them out and I can send them to you to repair and then when I get them back I can have them put them back in. Even if it wound up costing me around $100 or so each cylinder using both you and my mechanic, I wonder if they would go for that.
What do you think? This is a little dream car! Seriously it is! And I KNOW I am going to be having more failed cylinders soon.
I do want to throw this out there. This car has had several owners before me. I'm wondering if any of the other cylinders were replaced ever. It's still in such nice condition it's hard to believe most of the owner's didn't care for it properly.
Thanks so much for your response. Nice to meet you!!!
ETA: Just thought of something. With my vehicle being 20 years old, and most cylinders failing around the 10 year mark. I wonder what the odds are that some of the cylinders might have already been replaced. Is there any way to tell if this is the case?
Last edited by Lady Jazz; 04-29-2015 at 06:22 PM.
Reason: Add a thought.
01-07-2015, 10:03 AM
They said the left rear cylinder was leaking and it would cost $1,500.00 to fix it. That was for just ONE cylinder!!!
