tomd

Does anyone have any sales figures for the various SL models? Just curious as to how many of the SLs are actually sold in the US, and if the sales are increasing along with the other models by MB.

Germancar1

I don't have the breakout for the individual models, but here are MBUSA sales YTD:

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2...03/002895.html

The SL is down quite for 2006 YTD, but I expect sales will rebound this month for sure and the rest of the summer at the very least.

M

seattlecarfreak

i'm surprised how little the G and CL class sold.. even though the new body is a consideration for those cars, still ridiciously low numbers...

StephenK

It would be nice to have a breakdown of the sl's by model #.

Germancar1

Well I can understand both of those being slow sellers. The CL will pick up dramatically once the new model hits the ground at the end of the year. The G is the very definition of a "niche" product. A 27 year old 80K SUV thats shaped like a German icecream truck is for a "specific" buyer no doubt.

There is no 2006 G so I expect some decent upgrades for the 2007 model.

No doubt though that the Bentley Conti GT took the CL market without so much as a thank you.

M

seattlecarfreak

yeah but still, average of 50 CLs a month? that's less than most exotic cars.. the new G class is OK looking imho.. saw a demo at the dealer the other day.. kinda bad timing, as nobody is buying the big suvs anymore... wonder how it'll do..

RadSteve

Yeah, I agree. It would be more interesting.

Germancar1

Well you have to remember that Coupes a tough sell to begin with, and the CL is like 6 years old. Plus the Bentley Conti GT is the star of that market right now. The new GL (not G) will likely do well if GM's new large SUVs are any idication. The GL will no doubt do better than the R-Class.

M

MBZFAN55

Every 3 years or so, I give thought to leaving the S-Class and getting the "real" Mercedes (as my wife would say), the SL. This year being no exception, I am very seriously thinking about an SL550. I've done a few configurations on the MBUSA web site and it seems the base $95,000 SL, with all the bells and whistles will be over $110,000 when completed. It's a new model, with a new engine etc., but I have to ask a question here. Looking back at my 2004 SL500 "numbers", the base on the car was only $85,500, nearly $10,000 more, 3 years later. Has anyone else noticed this ? When the SL550 pricing was first announced back in February everyone seemed so ecstaic that the pricing was basically the same as the previous year's SL500. Well obviously, somewhere along the way, the price has risen substantially in just a few short years.

Germancar1

Well the SL is one of those cars that Mercedes absolutely knows they can sell at a good price no matter what the competition does in the segment. That said, some of that may be due to the exchange rate changing over the years, but still the SL is a cash printer for Mercedes so.............

I still don't think the SL's price is out of whack though because the 1990 500SL was $83,500 if I remember right and today's car is vastly superior in nearly every way.

M

tomd

I agree.

My 03 SL500 had a base of 85.990

My 05 SL500 base had risen by 4.5% to 89,900

My 07 SL 550 base had risen by 5.5% to 94,800

Looks like just about the inflation rate.

tiggerfink

I noticed that some of the options that were optional in 2004 are now standard. That maight count for some of the price increase.

seattlecarfreak

well since bmw released their 6 series which is not a big seller at all... now that jaguar released their $85,000 soft top, that imho isn't worth half that.. and there aren't any new ultra-lux convertibles on the horizon in the $100k price point that can even compare..

like said before.. i think mercedes realizes that the SL is downright the best folding hardtop or 2 seat GT convertible on the market right now... i think it's only really competition is the maserati, but even that is a tough sell... most people that buy a new SL class don't really care if it's $85k or $95k.. so i really don't think they are losing any new customers... when you have the best with no competition.. you can charge what the market demands for it... just look at porsche.. they have no competition in the sports car market, and their prices for a fully optioned 911 are ridiculous.. pure profit.. but they can charge that because they know people will pay...

blazinginder

I concur

StephenK

I concur too!

Germancar1

Bingo! It has been this way for years and years. I mean one after another have tried, Cadillac, BMW, Jaguar and Lexus and NOPE they can't get it. The Porsche 911 Cabrio is only real competition and then again it isn't because its a different car from the SL. Jaguar's new XK is nice, the XLR is just barely acceptable to some and not accecptable to many and the Lexus SC430 is just a joke....so when the smoke clears a 382hp SL550 stands tall, no need to even mention the insanely competent and gratifying upper SL models here.

M

blueSL

If I was Mercedes, I would be worried about those figures. They can put whatever spin on them they like but if it wasn't for the new S and the revised M classes, they would be in trouble.

Shows that the US market needs to be propped up with continual product refreshes and the SL sales are probably down because of talk of the facelifted models. Plus of course, the world and his wife are doing the hard top roof now.

Even the CLS, which hasn't been out that long is down and the salesman's hearts must sink when another transporter of C-Classes arrives on the lot.

What this is saying is that product goes stale very quickly. Think back 3 - 4 years when everyone was itching to get in an SL55. Those who did (myself included) are now finding out what real depreciation is like.

Germancar1

Thing is Mercedes is no different. Look at Lexus' sales this year, if it weren't for the new IS250/350 they'd be way down too. Every other Lexus is way down YTD except the IS and that includes their "new" GS sedans. The market is tough and nobody is immune and every brand usually has some key models that are holding up the bottom line. Even without the S, the ML, R, CLK, SLK and SL have posted gains in the last few months. The CLS is a fashion statement and they still move about 1K a month which is more than most other cars in the price range, if not all of them. This time last year it was on fire as opposed to merely being "popular" now.

If you look at a car like the E-Class which has had to deal with a new GS,M,5-Series,STS,RL and A6 all coming out in 04' or 05' as 06' models and yet it still outsells them all except the 5-Series, that is staying power beyond belief for a car that came out at the end of 02' facing all newer competitors. Now was as the facelift models come in July and the E takes the lead over the 5-Series again.

Yeah niche products go stale after a while. What a SL55 is supposed to sell at the same numbers from introduction forever? It isn't logical or feasible. Mercedes is no different from anyone else when it comes to their niche models, but their sedans have staying power for sure.

The only Mercedes to be "worried" about is the R-Class. The C is old and still move 4K or better a month not bad for what is a bascially 6 year old car!

After a few really bad years in the press and some stagnant sales there is a tide now in favor of Mercedes because they've been addressing each and every product in their lineup and now sales are finally starting to reflect this, both here and worldwide.

M

MBZFAN55

So well stated, BlueSL. Why do you think MBUSA spent 9 months trying to convince Stuttgart that the US market needed to change the "numbers' from "500" to "550". They know the fickle nature of the American consumer is only corraled by the announcement of a "new model" with new numbers. Who's to say that the same Amercians that blew away the $70,000 VW Phaeton won't run to the arms of a Bentley priced at $125,000 ?

Wolfman

BlueSL, you mentioned depreciation on the SL55. How does it compare to your previous SL600?

I find that depreciation is still lower in the US than Europe. I remember that in Germany, a v12 model was virtually unsellable as aused car and depreciation for any model with engines above 3.5 liters was the very high.

Factors were a bit a different though in Europe; 600's were not insurable due to theft and in general, high gas prices, high tax rates and high maintenance costs due to the short German MB warranty (2 years) w/o starmark or free maintenance.

In contrast, I find that many in the US have almost a phobia about higher mileages on cars, impacting depreciation here.
In Germany, a large engine S-class with 60,000 miles was considered "just broken in" with at least another 100,000 to 150,000 miles to go. Here it is considered a car with little reliable driving time left (refering to the average US car buyer, that is).

Wolfman

Germancar1

Its called marketing. No different from what anyone else does and changing the numbers from 500 to 550 is keeping the designations in line with what the engine size really is, not that they follow this across the board of course.

To say that MB would be in trouble without the new S and ML is silly because then you're implying that their supposed to keep increasing sales with a bunch of old products - nobody does that. Look at MB's arch rival Lexus for proof of this. Mercedes would likely be outselling them this year if it weren't for their new IS250/350 twins.

M

seattlecarfreak

i'm surprised the first and only 07 sl55 here in the largest dealership in seattle still hasn't been sold yet.. been sitting in the showroom for a month at $140k.. no takers... and we're not talking a small city here..

blueSL

Here in Europe, we see people in the US as being more risk averse than we are here and they like the protection of a warranty which is one reason factory warranties are longer. The US market demands it, perhaps we should be more vocal too!

There's a justifiable cause for concern that these cars are going to cost a fortune to maintain once the warranties expire, even if the mechanicals are perfectly sound. We all know about the SL's braking system but the increased use of electronics and the difficult-to-diagnose problems just make those warranties all the more attractive.

My SL55 is not a daily driver, but if I look at cars that are, a 3 year old car is down 40% but my low mileage car is not worth much more so the depreciation per mile is horrendous! V12's are always a problem in Europe when it comes to depreciation which is why I stayed with a V8. After about 5 years, an SL600 will be worth the same as an SL500 because the dealer knows they will have trouble moving it on.

As for the 07 SL55 in Seattle not selling, this is an old car now. First launched in 01 in Germany, it's a familiar sight in an afffluent place like Seattle and it might just be that the design is not as long lived as we've come to expect. Stand it along side an Aston Martin, and the detailing of the SL seems over-fussy. Times and tastes change and maybe the mid-life makeover was not extensive enough.

You guys in the US have an inexhaustible appetite for something new, which is why the sales figures are the way they are and it's reflected in the fact that you always qualify the car with its model year because there is an expectation of constant change and product evolution.

seattlecarfreak

that's not always the case.. i love loved my 92 500sel.. that big boat was the best thing out of stuttgart... it had problems and starting breaking down which is the only reason i sold it.. but that's one car that i'll never forget.. old and tired but not forgotten..

MBZFAN55

But the difference is that this was the way Mercedes came to market, until just recently. An "old product" now, was just getting started a few model years ago. Look at the 2 prior SL's that together ran for nearly 25 years, if you want to see how MB used to be marketed. Now, you are lucky to get 5 years out of a new model.