hwt1964

I have a 2003 SL500 w. sport package...great car, but 302 HP just isn't enough. I'm considering adding a Kleemann supercharger. I'm concerned about voiding the MBUSA warranty, though.

Has anyone out there had any experience in this area? Here's the response I got from Kleemann:

The addition of our kompressor system will NOT void your warranty. A law called the Magnuson-Moss act of 1975 states that it is illegal for a dealer to void your warranty due to the presence of an aftermarket part. The burden of proof lies on the dealer or manufacturer to explicitly prove that the aftermarket part caused the failure.

Also, has anyone else out there had Kleemann experiences (good or bad?)

blueSL

Well, of course, they would say that, wouldn't they?

I don't think Mercedes would have any trouble at all proving that the reason your engine seized in the middle of Death Valley when you were doing a Vmax test run was because it was operating outside its design envelope.

The engine is under much more stress because the supercharger uses alot of power - 91 bhp in the SL55 - and the engine is therefore working harder than the net power output would suggest. Add the effect of the increased power and torque on the rest of the drive train and you're looking at big bills and depreciation in the future.

If Kleeman are so sure of the reliability of what they do, they should warrant it themselves.

Another point to bear in mind is who is going to service the car. If I was a Mercedes Dealer, I wouldn't want to touch the car because my public liability insurance might not cover me messing with something I don't know.

If I were you, I'd get on the list for an SL55 ASAP.

Doody

my understanding is that the purpose of the Magnuson-Moss act was more to do with exhaust systems and suspension changes and wheel and tire stuffs. and rightly so.

but slapping a turbo setup or nitrous or a blower on your engine changes a whole lot of math in the engine and drivetrain.

let's just say that MBUSA wouldn't lose that case if you put the supercharger on and cracked your block or blew your clutch or whatever.

there are outfits in the porsche market that claim to honor the warrantees. i don't know anyone who's actually made a claim on them, but the companies seem to exist.

that said, futzing with a 911 turbo engine and futzing with an SL500 engine are really different things. i doubt the SL500 engine was engineered with another 20% of power in mind. not unlike the normally-aspirated 911 (996) engine, which is a bear to tune, in part because they just didn't engineer it with any real headroom. many reputable shops won't touch it.

it's your car and your money. do with it as you please and HAVE FUN! that's what it's all about at the end of the day (life is awfully short).

doody.

jswedberg

Remember, though, that your ENTIRE warranty would not be voided.

There would only be a problem if you had an engine failure of a particular type - one that looked to the dealer like excessive stress created the problem.

Other warranty items would not be affected.

Doody

while it is true that youre ENTIRE warranty wouldn't be potentially voided, you're talking about serious engine modifications that could easily cause MBUSA to nullify your warranty on:
* all engine components
* all drivetrain components
* tires and wheels

so if the cd player stops working you're still covered ;-)

doody.

karl k

Here we go again re Magg-Moss:

https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...t=k%26n+filter

blueSL

Simple question for anyone to answer. If you were selling a product and someone messed with it in the way you're planning to mess with your SL500, would you be happy honoring that person's claims? Probably not. So don't expect Mercedes to honor yours. Make the modifications if that's what you want to do, but don't expect Mercedes to provide you with a safety net.

karl k

Well put.

Plus, there is the insurance question in case of theft:

Are $20,000 of mods covered in case of theft?

Doody

most insurers WILL pay for mods in the event of a theft. many require you to add them specifically as a rider to your policy. of course you should expect this will increase your insurance costs if you add 25% of the vehicle MSRP as modifications. some insurers trust their customers and you just have to produce receipts/paperwork.

doody.

karl k

WRONG! Most will not.

As in my ref. thread, there is this re LIABILITY, and THEFT/DAMAGE:



https://mbworld.org/forums/showthrea...t=k%26n+filter

Doody

[[[So, if I wanted a Kleemann upgrade (or an aftermarket DVD/GPS/TV unit) to be covered under MY particular property damage policy, I would have to schedule it, and pay a higher premium, or find a way for the item to be covered under my homeowners policy. ]]]

so what's "WRONG"?

as i said, karl, you might have to schedule it and pay extra. whether that's via your auto policy or your home policy or whatever policy can vary state to state and insurer to insurer.

i can guarantee that nobody on this board knows the auto insurance rules and regs and standard practices for every state and every insurance company. hence the couching of my response, and of drew's original post.

just as there's no reason to lull a false sense of security with arbitrary positive responses, there's no reason to shut off discussions with equally arbitrary negative responses.

doody.

Mach430

It seems like this debate will never stop... If you buy a new SL500, and insure it as a Honda S2000, will your insurance cover it if you crash? Not likely? Ok, so if your concern is that your car/property is covered, then you should properly inform your insurance company about the particular piece in question. Your insurance agent can send you a copy of your contract at any time; it's quite easy to see whether it needs to be added or not.

As for warranty... Kleemann was entirely correct, there are federal laws protecting the consumer from companies automatically voiding their product's warranty. If this were not the case, any one of us could be out of warranty for having a flat tire patched by the AAA, replaced by a non-Mercedes service technician. Now besides thinking that this is an absurd scenario, you're probably also laughing at how anyone could ever try to void your engine, interior, paint, warranty based on who's air you put in your tire.

Legally, the manufacturer of the product most prove that your particular modification was responsible for whatever the problem in question is. In reference to exhaust systems, as long as the exhaust increases airflow, then the warranty should never be a question. A supercharger however plays a much greater role on the reliability of an engine. This is why it is important to only use the best. The Kleemann Supercharger does not simply blow hot air in the attempt of burning more, and thus increasing HP. It actually is a very complex system. To start, the intercooler which sits on top of the engine is so complex--it's patented. Very few systems for any car are efficient enough to have the intercooler this close to the SC intake. (Not to mention using the best type of intercooler). Even further, there is an aftercooler located near the front bumper to ensure that the water to the intercooler stays cool (thus keeping the air cool). This is why they can produce so much power at only .5 bar. Cold air is not only important for increasing Oxygen density, but also for avoiding detonation. Kleemann Superchargers are designed to run at a safe air/fuel ratio without detonation, and produce power in what feels like an effortless manner. Unlike other superchargers which whine and are not constant, the Kleemann twin-screw supercharger is present from the get go. You are able to drive calmly as your Mercedes is habit to, or have power delivered across the board. A dyno will show that the power curve is basically just pushed up higher. The power delivery remains the same, and thus it drives like any other Mercedes.

Almost any performance modification that brings additional power out of the engine will increase stress on the engine, but the question is how much. With the Kleemann SC, you are looking at about 5-10% additional wear on the engine (this may vary due to driving style and weather conditions). Pretend my number is way off, and it actually produces 30% additional wear on the engine. Then you're left with an engine that was originally built to run 200,000 miles only running for 120,000. How many years would it take to put that on your car?

Obviously, if you have a problem with your engine, the first question is going to be whether the supercharger is responsible. Kleemann has been supercharging Mercedes in Europe for about 14 years, and has never had a single drivetrain issue. Further, the upgrade is entirely reversible, and can be put back to stock at any time if need be. I had to ask myself these same questions before choosing to supercharge my CLK430. I have not looked back since.

Thanks

Ben

karl k

That is what I ref to as wrong, because it gives the impression, that mods are mostly/routinely covered, which they are not.

karl k

Don't you fortfeit the MB warranty when you race?

Ben - With your hypothetical 30 % wear, would it not be reasonable that the MB warranty will be voided, because of a 30% strain added by an outside source - the mod - in case of a catastrophic engine/drivetrain failure?

Mach430

As well as your insurance. No one endorses racing unless it is at an appropriate place with a properly prepared car.

Ben - With your hypothetical 30 % wear, would it not be reasonable that the MB warranty will be voided, because of a 30% strain added by an outside source - the mod - in case of a catastrophic engine/drivetrain failure? [/QUOTE]

Look at it as 30% (hypthetical) life taken off the car. Otherwise, it simply looks as if you hotrod around a lot. Now, if it turns out to be 30% additional wear, and your engine only lasts ~120,000 miles, then you would not be covered under warranty. Not due to the aftermarket product, but because Mercedes does not provide warranties past 100,000 miles.

But you missed my point. The turning point in my decision to supercharge my car, was that in 14 years of supercharging Mercedes, Kleemann has never had a drivetrain issue. Granted, I or someone else, may be the first one; but the odds are very slim.

karl k

Tnx Ben:

After decades of international global trade promotion experience, relating to ALL types of products and services, I believe in the axiom:

"If it is too good to be true, it is!"

There are always exceptions to the norm, the Kleeman might be the one.

Mach430

Honestly Karl, I know your position towards aftermarket modifications towards Mercedes, as you know mine. But the Kleemann superchargers are not just 'hype'. They were designed for reliability and power. And based on my experience and personal knowledge of the company, I would say that they do just that. An engine warranty is obviously a big concern for most of us, that is why the proper research must be done before choosing to add any performance modification. These are Mercedes were dealing with, where incorrect choices can be very costly.

karl k

Tnx Ben; fair enough!

I just sat in the new E500 at the MB showroom. What a beauty; the inside resembles the S! The E500 offers many features standard in the S class.

Mach430

Karl, I think we have finally agreed on something. Of course I'd have to modify it though

karl k

...as long as it is completely reversible!

Seriously,

if Kleeman would have a $5,000 mod to increase power of the E500 by 50 to 75 hp, --

it would sell like hotcakes!!

...and you could retire at 35.

Mach430

The Kleemann Supercharger is definitely a lot of money, but when compared to other alternatives, it is a steal. For about 1/3 the price, you get more power, better reliability, and better gas mileage. As attractive as $5,000 would be, serious product cutbacks would have to occur, and you would lose most, if not all, of the three benefits I mentioned. They do have a $8,400 upgrade, but it requires a 320 engine