Groovyman

On Friday Apr 11th, 2008 I came upon an auction listing on eBay’s Motor for a 2004 Mercedes SL500 with a listed BUY IT NOW price of $37,900. After carefully thinking it over and then purchasing the Carfax report for the vehicle, at approx 10:52PM PST I ended the auction early and purchased the 2004 Mercedes SL500 (Item # 140223892355) on eBay with the BUY IT NOW price of $37,900. I quickly emailed the Seller asking them how they would like me to make the deposit for the car and then went to bed dreaming of the SL500 I just purchased.

The next morning (yesterday) Saturday Apr 12th, 2008 I received an email from someone named Tom claiming to be a person hired to list auctions for the Seller, claiming he has made an error and the price should have been $47,900. He then mentioned that the Seller would not be able to sell me the vehicle for the price I purchased it for.

At about 10:30AM PST Apr. 12th, 2008 I tried contacting the person’s name listed in the auction's item description named Phil and left a message for him to call me back in regards to the SL500 I purchased on eBay.

Phil did call me back about an hour later. Phil claims to be the owner's son and told me there was nothing he can do. And as we were talking on the phone I was told Greg P, the owner of the Dealership has now joined in on the conversation, so I quickly informed Mr. P that last night I purchased their 2004 SL500 off eBay with the BUY IT NOW price of $37,900. Mr. P quickly interrupted me told me that they could not sell me the car for that price. He kept on saying it was an honest mistake and he wasn’t going to lose $10,000 because of it. So I told him that as a Buyer I am legally obligated to pay for the auction I have won and that he as the seller would be legally responsible to meet the terms of the agreement set forth by eBay’s policies and the terms of the auction listed, so therefore we have a legally binding contract and that Mr. P’s Dealership is legally obligated to sell the SL500 to me for the price that was posted in their auction as the BUY IT NOW price of $37,900.

Mr. P just kept on saying there's no way he was going to sell it to me for that price. I then suggested for him to take a look at the eBay’s policies and to contact his Power Seller representative. Mr. P repeated that he wasn’t going to lose $10,000 due to an honest mistake.

So I commented to him that we have a problem here then.

His response... "I don't have a problem with it, you do"

So I told Mr. P that I would seek legal advice and possibly legal action against him and his company for breech of contract.

He told me to do what I have to do and hung up.

Let turn this around... if I would have won an auction and I refused to pay and claim it was an honest mistake, you think he will just let it slide. I don’t think so. They would have their lawyer all after me in a heartbeat.

So what does everyone think about this? I know other Sellers on eBay have honored their so-called honest mistake and the Buyer did eventually get their item for the price of the auction.

Any advice?

Thanks in advance!

ScottCLS55

No they dont just like dead beat bidders do not have to pay either..


It makes you mad but there is nothing you can do.

There have been many cases of this happening..

Addicted2Speed

Don't be ridiculous, you will never win this case. If he doesn't want to sell it, the only thing you can do is leave him negative feedback.

vantage78

Check out this thread:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=127993

Gist of it: Guy won an auction for a new M3 at a 10k discount, dealership refused, eventually caved in.

jmf003

Some advice....

Not a good idea to buy a car from someone you don't trust. These guys haven't come close to earning your trust.

SL resale prices are falling like stones. By letting this deal go, you'll probably find an even better deal in the near future. And they'll be stuck selling their SL500 for even less. Gotta like that outcome!

If you can rationalize spending just a little more money, consider buying an SL55 or SL600. Prices on those cars have fallen into the $4x,000 range and they'll put a huge grin on your face every time you sit behind the wheel.

Good luck!

Steven

You don't want the car now, they could srew with it just for spite and without the factory warranty you would be screwed. Notify E-Bay and that about all you can do. I would also look up what state that the dealer is in and make a complaint to not only the BBB but the licensing board of the registry and or the Secretary of State's business regulation division. Give them some agita!
The cheapest car is not always the best car.

Timeless

Great advice and I would agree with it totally.

StephenK

What a bunch of scumbags, everyone who puts up a listing looks at it, they would have easily seen their mistake on such an important item. I would not want the car after all that BS, but people like that need to be taken out of the system, they are the deadbeats that all the bad rumors are about. At a minimum file complaints against them, I am sure they are no strangers to that.

06CLK350

I was actually going to post this until i saw it. I would go ahead by contacting a lawyer. You will win this case without any issues. Before clicking the submit button, ebay questions if all the information is correct and by submitting, they are confirming that it is correct. I know of two cases where people have fault this and won. As far as the car being damaged by them, well i guess thats a chance you got to take. You can always buy it and sell it for a small quick profit. Another reason why i would go forward with this is because the guy was a a$$ to you over the phone.

Groovyman

Just want to start of by thanking everyone for posting their thoughts on the matter, good and bad.

So here’s a bit of an update:

I did get in touch with Ken, the now famous BMW M3 guy. He has been more than helpful with his advice and support. Thanks Ken!!!

I sent the Dealer an email yesterday basically suggesting to them to seriously reconsider their position on this matter and that they should not to take this situation lightly. I gave them a deadline of Today Noon EST to respond and of course I did not hear back from them at all.

I have now filed a seller non-performance complaint with eBay and reported the situation to Florida’s BBB and DMV and am waiting for their response.

I am also looking into obtaining legal advice from a Miami area lawyer thanks to my contacts in Miami.

So we will see what happens, like Ken said “Don’t give up” and I’m NOT!!!!

ScottCLS55

What if it was an honest mistake..

Here are dealer auction prices on that car with NO SPORT package

04/03/08 FAAO Lease $39,950 30,997 Avg SILVER 8G A Yes
03/20/08 MANHEIM Lease $40,500 40,945 Avg SILVER 8G A Yes
03/27/08 RIVRSIDE Regular $41,000 28,131 Avg PEWTER 8G A Yes
03/20/08 MANHEIM Regular $42,000 23,758 Above SILVER 8G A Yes
04/03/08 MANHEIM Regular $42,250 36,088 Above SILVER 8G A Yes
04/10/08 CHICAGO Regular $43,000 16,593 Above SILVER 8G A Yes
03/25/08 FAAO Regular $43,000 24,365 Above BLACK 8G A Yes
04/04/08 MANHEIM Lease $43,500 3,890 Above SILVER 8G A Yes

I think it was an honest mistake not something to reel you in..

Remember Karma at all times...

mjr24

Simple fact is....as others have said....be careful what you wish for. They could do something to the car and you would not know it and be screwed. Sometimes things happen for a good reason in hindsight.

However, I do see some major differences between his situation and your's. First, the BMW one (too many pages to read) seemed like it was a live auction that ran for many days and then ended. Plus, it said no reserve. It was pretty obvious the dealer there did not make a mistake by letting an auction run for 7-10 days.

However, here, it sounds like this was just a buy it now auction? Or was it up for auction, too? For how long? It is possible if the auction was up for only a short time with a buy it now that they did hit the wrong price. The dealer has good feedback....especially for selling cars sight unseen online. It's one thing if they had prior reports of them doing this online.

Like Scott said in the above post....Karma. If they sell the car in the meantime you are screwed anyways.....you can't take possession from the new owner and it's not like they can get you a new car with the same mileage, colors, options, etc. Plus....your reliance on this deal has not cost you any money presumably (as opposed to you spending $700 to fly down there and then find out it was an error.....which cost you $700).

Regardless, though......the other guy had a new M3. This is for an out of warranty SL that could very easily cost you big time if they do something to the car you don't know of.

Groovyman

Scott, you sure know a lot about dealer auctions? Are you a dealer yourself? If not how did you get the recent dealer auction prices? And for you to go through all the trouble to post all that info for us... hmmm, seems to me this ordeal means a lot to you.

Ok, let me get this straight.... did I do some wrong here? So standing up for yourself is now considered screwing people around? Wow... don't know what kind of world you live in Scott.

As for Karma... wishing someone would be hit by a bus because they are speaking out on what they believe is right. Wow... you sure do practice what you preach, Scott... Remember what you said Karma at all times. P*ssy!!!!

Groovyman

Actually the auction had a starting bid of $18,000 with a reserve price and BUY IT NOW price of $37,900. So that means he had to have entered three prices into the auction. Which means the reserve price was lower or equal to the BUY IT NOW price. So if the reserve price was correct at $37,900, then the dealer was going to sell it anyway at that price if the BIN was suppose to have been $47,900. Does that make sense?

The auction was up for about 5 hours before I ended it early with BIN.

I know the dealer had good feedback that is why I felt comfortable enough to purchase the vehicle from them. Then again their feedback tactics are unethical. Which gives them the good feedback they currently have. Take a look at it in their item descriptions.

Dragoncoach

Lots more cars will be for sale. Drop the sale and forget about it. I know principal is involved but it's really not worth the time or effort or fustration over some AH. Besides, all you have invested is time and effort, no money at all. Have fun enjoying the hunt for another SL. The hunt is half the fun and you'll have another story to tell about how you "found" your SL. I do know how you feel and I would have tried to screw this guy back as well when I was younger. Trust me, all the effort you are putting in probably won't change the outcome and you will be in the same postion you were before your bid. Good Luck with your decision.

Groovyman

Thanks again to everyone for their thoughts.

I have just been informed by my friend in Miami who so happens will be having a breakfast meeting with a bunch of lawyers tomorrow morning. She told me that most of them are very close friends of hers so they will definitely help out in every way.

Florida’s BBB notified me that they have now served the Dealer the complaint and is waiting for their reply. I am expecting some news from eBay, Florida’s DMV and Consumer Services soon as well.

bigben320e

If you really want it, go for it. As a seller, you are obligated to sell what you list at the price point. You are well within your rights to pursue the car. However, there may me some negative on this deal. As mentioned they could do something to the car, hopefully they would not be that dumb to do so.

At least you are raising the heat on them so they will not get away scott-free on you. Judging by some of their feedback they do some false-advertising so to speak.

Dealers, what can I tell you....get em!

derrick_lui

Yeah, go after them...dont let em get away..
I had a small car dealership trying to screw me one time by refusing to give my deposit back and giving me bad attitude..

gocargo

Groovy Man, God's looking down on you my boy.. run, run away very fast & happy!! The dealer's STILL got the car, economy's STILL getting worse and you've STILL got the cash in your pocket!!

Think about it.. the dealership looses his fight with you and he will surely put a time bomb in the car's mechanic's, electrical or hydraulics.. somewhere... I would. And He's got the technicians with the know-how.

mjr24

It makes sense but if someone is doing their auctions (which is not unusual for car dealers I don't think, car dealers aren't professional web or HTML designers), maybe they just messed up the $10k on the reserve and BIN.

As for Scott's posting, I think you are way off. Mannheim auction pricing (which is what he cited) is available to alot of people....especially from this board. The evidence from that seems to follow that the dealer messed up on price as Mannheim pricing is always alot lower than Ebay pricing....and Ebay pricing is alot lower than normal pricing.

I do find their feedback policy odd......that being said, buyers always have the option of going back and adding a reply to their original feedback. No one has done that on their FB.

I would say they made an honest mistake....and yeah, you could probably press them on it if you wanted to. However, I am not sure you look much better by doing so in this situation. I could equate it to you walking behind me while a $100 bill drops out of my pocket. Yes, technically I made a mistake and dropped it and you could pick it up and it would be your's....but it's not real honest on your part......

Groovyman

gocargo, what happened to the SL you were offering to sell me? lol. Sold already? or did you make an honest mistake j/k edit

gocargo

Yeah, I'd sell. Are you near Atlanta?

Addicted2Speed

I agree 100%. They made an honest mistake and you look like a complete douchebag trying to rip them off.

Groovyman

The seller has now filed an Unpaid item dispute against me for failing to pay for the item. Totally BS!!!! I have been more than willing to pay for the item but they refused to sell. eBay is still investigating the matter and this dealer is now trying to scam eBay to get their fees back by claiming I didn’t pay them.

ndabunka

LOL (at the dealer, not at you groovyman) - Well, even if you didn't get the car at least your getting the ability to force them to pay eBay. Just send eBay emails outlining the dealerships stance. They will remove the erroneous negative feedback AND will also force that dealership to pay up the fees (even if you don't get the car, to eBay the transaction occurred. Who knows, maybe you can use that to your benefit in any legal efforts). Did you ever secure a lawyer for this one?