Thericker

The 1st pic you posted here is what I made.. You can add all the insulating header wrap you want, it wont change the fact your entire setup is made of SS/ or mild steel it heatsoaks in minutes & stays that way, just like the rest of your super heated engine/heads/block/manifolds etc get this straight...

ALL modern OEM factory intakes are made from poly/plastic for a reason to drastically reduce IAT's & if you look you'll see ALL the latest v8biturbo models have added header/wrap to further reduce the incredible heat these things generate esp when the hood is closed its a literal furnace... You can't mitigate this by simply wrapping all your metal piping..

Yes your SL bodykit/build looks great!! Could use a little drop in the rear though.. Love the dark blue!!

Ekselent

Thank you
No it's don't hurt but I want first measure the temp after the insulate and before so I now what is going on....
I'm very curious.

Ekselent

Yes your SL bodykit/build looks great!! Could use a little drop in the rear though.. Love the dark blue!![/QUOTE]

Thericker... thank you... I'm gone measure the temps first before I decide to do anything.
You are right. I must drop the rear. Maybe 1" is enough.
I used before the Carlsson lowering module and I had al the time ABC failure messages so I decide to sell it.
Now I'm gone use lowering links. I have them at the rear now and I must adjust it a little bit more.
At the front I found an another way to go . I use the OEM links. I modified the bracket a little bit which affected 1 1/4".
I bought at the front also but they don't fit. I'm not sure if the ABC Air suspension links is different because at the package it's read SL R230 with ABC air suspension and I now SL don't have air suspensions at al. I thought they are the same. They looks different than at the rear.

Ekselent

I've been thinking about this temperature matter...
Have come to the conclusion that I need a third measuring point after IC.
After all, it may also be that even if the temperature of the intake air would rise to twice the IC however, do the job and cool it down.
(this cause, they will be there)
My coolers are bigger (do better job) and I have also the extra HE and bigger IC circulation pump....

I want to follow the temperatures when the car is run at idle and when I drive it at the high way.
My opinion is the measurement point after the IC is most important... not inside the intake before the turbo inlet.
It's not so simple to think this issue ... rise of the intake air temperature is not necessarily have no affect in short term.
Stop the car for example two minutes at the traffic lights----> no affects.

I'm still looking for the correct measuring tool.

BlownV8

More data is a good idea.

NEMES1S

I would just run 2 sensors, one on each bank, and have the different intake types mounted simultaneously so you know you are getting the exact same ambient and driving conditions.

Ekselent

Hm....
I must think about that.
At the moment I'm more interesting about the intake temperature before the turbo inlet? ( Because we have discuss about this so much ).
How much the hot engine room heat the pipe inside and can the coolers take care of the higher heat. ( At idle and when the car is in motion ).

At the moment I know that the 4 degree (7,2F) temperature increase or decrease affects 1% at horsepower.
So for example if the temperature difference is 32° / 4°= 8% + change the ignition causes.
600 hp*8%/100= 48 hp+ignition causes... it's lot of horsepower. More than I first thought.( easily 100 hp together)


Today I had a chance take few pictures about the Dynomax mufflers under the car.

BlownV8

Yeah, the heat really matters and it has a HUGE effect on horsepower.

Ekselent

Hello members.

Today I had a chance to measure the temperatures.... I have not still bought the right tools because I have not yet found the right system to do it (measure the temperatures at different places at the intake).
However, I wanted to start somewhere, and I ended up trying the following

- I bought DaschCommand App and WiFi OBD scanner---> I-phone 6.
The engine have one intake sensor (some where) but I don't now where because the App can read it.( maybe somewhere near the trottel body)

My car was hot when I start this first test.
- Outisde temperature 55F
- Engine temp 185F
- Intake temp 158F

When I run 5 miles with the car the temp show following.
- Outside temp 55F
- Engine temp 195F
- Intake temp 149F

When I stop the car and let it run at idle
- Outside temp 55F
- Engine temp 185F
- Intake temp
After 2 min---> 158F
After 5 min---> 167F
After 10 min---> 174F

When I left again to drive
- Outside temp 55F
- Engine temp 185F
- Intake temp 158F
These values remained constant at almost the same at a constant gas the same distance back.
But when I open the trottel at half the intake the temperature dropped immediately to 131F... (1-2 sec) and when I slow down back to same speed the intake temperature rise back to 158F.

Very interesting data.... and BTW my boost was at its best around 17,4 PSI.
(I do not really had time to look at it carefully when I had other things to do )
Dangerous.... small ways here..

I'm gone go further with this when I have he right measurements tools.

-For me this show that the engine emits heat al the time where the temperature sensor is because the intake temperature is so high... nearly the same as the engine.

-For me this also show how good the cold air is when it took it front from the radiator.....affected immediately!
Otherwise a big difference vs Scorpions for sure!. Temp drop from 158F-131F=27F.(1-2sek).=3,75%. 600 hp*3,75%=22,5 hp+change the ignition causes. So the cold air intake is very effective for sure!!!!

-It's also show that the temperature rise 18F after 5 min which is 2,5% . 600 hp*2,5%= 15 hp + change the ignition causes.

-It's also begins to show a little bit so that it is exactly the same what material the pipe is made of ... the most important thing is from where the air is coming from..... as I mention many times earlier. The air have no time to heat up when it's flow at half or full trottel. The pipe is so short!

I'm not sure if I'm right with this. : ) but al this data is from my car and in these circumstances.

BlownV8

Thanks for sharing. Would be interesting if you tested again after insulating the tubes or if you used silicon tubes.

Ekselent

Thank you.
I'm gone try something else to.
Honestly my opinion its does not matter what material the pipe is made of silicone, aluminum or rubber and so on...

If you read those temp numbers you can see what the biggest limiting factor is?
It's the coolers + engine room heat "under" the coolers!
If the outside temp is as low 55F was yesterday I wondering why the temp was not going down at idle it going up but it took time... longer than i thought. It's not for because the intake pipe material.... it's because the coolers liquid is already warm! (Normal working temperature incl the engine room heat)
As I measure yesterday when I drove the car normal the intake temp don't fallen out yet so much as one might believe first (149F---158F vs outside 55F) it's because the coolers. Not the intake pipe material.
When I step on the throttle then thing happens (Lot of 55F cold outside air start to flow through the coolers cell) .... temperature dropped (1-2 sec) immediately to 131F as long I had the throttle at that position. The longer and the more the temp fall down. The cold intake air start to cool down also the coolers ( not at boost)... I think you can see it when I loosened the throttle temperature immediately rise to the same where it was before that. It's take time for the coolers also to cool down... my opinion is it's have nothing to do with the pipe material.(the pipe is so short and the air flow so fast so its have no time to go up).
I think I've now proved that this matter is exactly the same what material the tube is made from... the most important is from where you get the colder air from. ( shortest and straightest way without turbulence and the inlet outside from the engine room is the best solution)
Intercoolers has such a big impact on the overall picture so 10" - 15 "length piping of no relevance nothing.(you cast a glass of water into the sea).

Someone may even disagree, but it does not bother me....
Thericker allowed scream,cry,jump and yell so much he wants . ( if the intake pipe had a cell inside then it's an another case)
(these things should not be taken so seriously)

I'm gone try something else to.... and measure it again.

Ekselent

I test my car again...
What do you members think?
- 667 hp
- 1078 Nm
- boost 21,7 Psi

: )


IMG_3107.JPG.jpeg

BlownV8

Post a dyno chart.

Ekselent

Its from Dashcomand.<br/>Im sure the boost is right... Its much stronger than before : )

Ekselent

Next week new downpipes with race cats...
The boost Is high : ). Higher than never before.
So who was it who told me many times no gains when I have made 100% turbulance free intake, made turbo intake conical + T-branch inlet conical and so on..: ).
: ).

cm60k

You doing great job MaaaaaN, you telling all people to work with their hand & brain not with foolish MOUTH..

F1BHP

Is that around 540-550whp?

BlownV8

Run it on a real chassis dyno and see what it is making. Should be around 525 RWHP. That's what I made on my old CL600 with just a Renntech tune and nothing else.

Ekselent

Now I must tell you one secret.: ). The best part of this case..... I dont mention earlier that I had ESP on... . I forgot take it off : ).
Im interesting why the boost is higher than before...
15-18% drive train loss = 550-570 Rwhp?
Look at the torque numbers also...
I now many of you have turn the wastegate shaft so its hold up boost longer.... And I have wait long time that somebody of them step in and tell to al of us about this "secret" so we al now.
Im not sure if they are affraid to tell us about this modifiction with stock turbos because they want that extra hp for itself.. ??
I want to be open with everything and show everything I do so al of us now. Something to do next winter at the garage with own hands... : ).

Ekselent

Thank you for the kindly words...
Thats is exactly what I trying to do.... Something different ... Smal modifications there and there maybe its help to get more extra power. Even if it only 10-20 hp.... And it costs nearly nothing.
I like what V12TTentusiast have done with his engine headwork....its a master piece for sure

Ekselent

Yes I think so....
Its 20-30 hp more when I thought.

Ekselent

Hm.... May I ask...
Do you use or drive your car at the dyno room or at the roads...
I use my car at open roads... Its boaring to drive circles inside
So which are the right conditions outdoors when the car is in motion or inside at the dynoroom when the car is stationary attached at rotating rollers???
Dynos also shows different values at the same car. Big diffrences.
I think its time to think different about this to.
When the car is at motion you get fresh air to the engine room + at the intake also. Everything is real conditions. You don't even have the wheels friction/heat vs rollers there
So my car drive train lose is not so high as it is at the dyno room. Maybe 13%?=580 rwhp? So its 40-50 rwhp more than you had it at your CL600
Get it?

BlownV8

I always dyno before and after modifications to separate the facts from BS. The butt dyno is not accurate and I don't really trust an electronic program from a cell phone to give me accurate hp and tq numbers. Sorry, I just don't. However, if your program is correct, it should be around 550 RWHP on a Dynojet but if you don't take it to an actual dyno you will never know what it is really making.

A lot of the answers you are looking for on the modifications have already been covered by Thericker. Just search his posts. He has done pretty much every mod that is known to produce more power with the exception of new turbo wheels or black series turbos.

Thericker

Ding, ding, ding...... Exactly!

Ekselent you really can't base true hp/tq readings off ANY car/data reading software.... You need a proper REAL dynojet or Dynodynamics run to show some decent readings of hp/tq lol Yeah guess what you're also running around in what Ambient temps? 55 deg or less???? Guess what happens in true Ambient 75-80+ Deg F Ahhh you'll see easy 40-50 whp drop buddy

Thericker

Jesus I gotta call you out.. you're a total idiot please get a frign clue & stop spouting off like you just discovered something/anything w/these rigs.. The reason more DON'T post the wastegate trick is..... It ultimately lowers the life expectancy of your turbos! I did it as I was expecting/trying for months to buy the GT30 big turbo upgrade from Speedriven...

PS as I said above, your super duper cai isn't the reason you think your making a very doubtful 550+ rwhp read off dashdaq lol it's the super low 55 deg ambient temps you're in.. & even if you now state for sake of arguement you're in 75+ deg the dashdaq isn't giving you 100% true hp/tq readouts you need a real dyno to see that period.. Sorry but you're like a little child claiming victory or you're right & others are wrong when you know so little its a total joke...Enjoy your faux hp/tq Professor