SL/R230: Is the Sl series failing?
04-15-2019, 12:56 PM
#27
Banned
Helping a friend's wife with her BMW today. She works for Mercedes as a "model" and is going to New York for a show tomorrow.
Apparently on Wednesday M-B will be announcing to the press a "Grand" or possibly a "Final" edition of the R231 at that event. She says for some time there has been talk internally that the SL series is coming to an end. It's possible that news will be released on Wednesday along with the new R231 edition.
Apparently on Wednesday M-B will be announcing to the press a "Grand" or possibly a "Final" edition of the R231 at that event. She says for some time there has been talk internally that the SL series is coming to an end. It's possible that news will be released on Wednesday along with the new R231 edition.
04-16-2019, 09:59 AM
#29
MBworld Guru
I'd be totally surprised if the SL is cancelled. Also, I think all the rumors about it becoming a soft top 2+2 are unfounded. MBZ has the ability to make low-volume cars (with a commensurate inflated price, of course) so I see no reason fro them to end it. Most models run about 7 years, so it's time for a "new" SL. We shall see! I do wish i still have my MBUSA/MBUSI contacts, though I suspect they wouldn't tell me anything if it really is big news, other than just a new body style.
The following users liked this post:
danaw007 (04-18-2019)
04-18-2019, 03:16 PM
#31
MBWorld Fanatic!
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: In my garage
Posts: 8,424
Received 1,003 Likes
on
810 Posts
E55, GLS450, GL63, GLE350
No, it makes sense to me. The hood will cushion the blow somewhat but when it caves to the point of hitting the top of the engine there will be no give. Makes it so there is a better chance for survival. I think maybe an if that's what we are going to do then make a hood airbag that will soften the blow. Seems like a statistical outlier but, than again, the anti assault rifle folks have gone very far using the statistical outliers to make their voice heard.
04-18-2019, 05:20 PM
#32
Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA Tennessee
Posts: 170
Received 33 Likes
on
22 Posts
2008 SL550 R230, 2004 E320 W211
I have enjoyed reading the discussion on this thread, and found the comments regarding the nose of the car interesting.
The original post by @gregorynp asked for thoughts, so below are my thoughts and opinions, keeping in mind that I am absolutely biased because I have a 2008 R230 and think its a fantastic car or I wouldn't have bought it and I wouldn't be on this forum... Also, this is just my opinion and not fact.
I agree with many of the points that Dave Demuro brings up in the video, but NOT necessarily with his conclusions as they apply to the R230 (and I guess the R231 as well). Maybe he is right if you think of it from the marketing standpoint of an auto manufacturer and developing and selling new cars, but I don't agree with his conclusion as a consumer of a used R230.
For example:
He says "people aren't buying convertibles all that much anymore...".
I agree, and I personally don't like typical soft top convertibles because I hate driving around with a "soft top" up (also, with a typical soft top convertible you have deterioration issues, leaks, wind noise, etc.); and while you can get removable "hard tops" for many convertibles (including the older SLs), they are a pain to install/remove, storage can be an issue, etc. However, the R230 offers the best of both worlds - hard top (mine even has the panoramic roof), and convertible at the touch of a button. Moreover, most convertibles are fun at first, but eventually the wind can be noisy and annoying. But I am still amazed at how quiet and pleasant the R230 is with the top down and the rear wind deflector up and/or windows up, even at high speeds. The convertible hard top aspect of my R230 is one of the main reasons I chose it!
He says (paraphrasing) that the SL used to be the top Mercedes in the line up, but now it has been superseded by other other Mercedes models (that are sportier or more luxurious, etc.). I don't disagree, but that doesn't mean that the SL doesn't offer a mix of features that appeals to a certain market demographic and price range (at least on the second hand market).
He says that the SL is a car that doesn't know what it is, its not the sportiest, its not the most luxurious, etc. Again, I agree, but I see it as offering a good balance of things I want and desire in this type of car. The engine is plenty powerful enough for me (puts a smile on my face!). The handling is good enough for me (much sportier than my LandCruiser
). And the R230 is very comfortable. I didn't want a pure sports car without any creature comforts, and I didn't want a large comfy cruising sedan either!
I do understand that the video is from the perspective of selecting a "new" rather than used, but again I think that is a positive for a car like the R230. The depreciation made the R230 a great value for me! Personally, I believe the R230 is a lot of car for the money, and it really looks more expensive than it is. I even view the maintenance as a positive (note that this is not my daily driver): I enjoy performing some maintenance myself (although skills are limited), so knowing that there was some maintenance I could do even makes the car more satisfying (I might have a different view if this was my only form of transportation). I view the maintenance costs as a hobby.
Having owned other Mercedes in the past (including a 1976 450SLC), and other SUVs, sedans, sports cars, etc. I really love my R230.
If Mercedes does cancel the SL line, does that make ours more valuable?
The original post by @gregorynp asked for thoughts, so below are my thoughts and opinions, keeping in mind that I am absolutely biased because I have a 2008 R230 and think its a fantastic car or I wouldn't have bought it and I wouldn't be on this forum... Also, this is just my opinion and not fact.
I agree with many of the points that Dave Demuro brings up in the video, but NOT necessarily with his conclusions as they apply to the R230 (and I guess the R231 as well). Maybe he is right if you think of it from the marketing standpoint of an auto manufacturer and developing and selling new cars, but I don't agree with his conclusion as a consumer of a used R230.
For example:
He says "people aren't buying convertibles all that much anymore...".
I agree, and I personally don't like typical soft top convertibles because I hate driving around with a "soft top" up (also, with a typical soft top convertible you have deterioration issues, leaks, wind noise, etc.); and while you can get removable "hard tops" for many convertibles (including the older SLs), they are a pain to install/remove, storage can be an issue, etc. However, the R230 offers the best of both worlds - hard top (mine even has the panoramic roof), and convertible at the touch of a button. Moreover, most convertibles are fun at first, but eventually the wind can be noisy and annoying. But I am still amazed at how quiet and pleasant the R230 is with the top down and the rear wind deflector up and/or windows up, even at high speeds. The convertible hard top aspect of my R230 is one of the main reasons I chose it!
He says (paraphrasing) that the SL used to be the top Mercedes in the line up, but now it has been superseded by other other Mercedes models (that are sportier or more luxurious, etc.). I don't disagree, but that doesn't mean that the SL doesn't offer a mix of features that appeals to a certain market demographic and price range (at least on the second hand market).
He says that the SL is a car that doesn't know what it is, its not the sportiest, its not the most luxurious, etc. Again, I agree, but I see it as offering a good balance of things I want and desire in this type of car. The engine is plenty powerful enough for me (puts a smile on my face!). The handling is good enough for me (much sportier than my LandCruiser
). And the R230 is very comfortable. I didn't want a pure sports car without any creature comforts, and I didn't want a large comfy cruising sedan either!I do understand that the video is from the perspective of selecting a "new" rather than used, but again I think that is a positive for a car like the R230. The depreciation made the R230 a great value for me! Personally, I believe the R230 is a lot of car for the money, and it really looks more expensive than it is. I even view the maintenance as a positive (note that this is not my daily driver): I enjoy performing some maintenance myself (although skills are limited), so knowing that there was some maintenance I could do even makes the car more satisfying (I might have a different view if this was my only form of transportation). I view the maintenance costs as a hobby.
Having owned other Mercedes in the past (including a 1976 450SLC), and other SUVs, sedans, sports cars, etc. I really love my R230.
If Mercedes does cancel the SL line, does that make ours more valuable?
04-18-2019, 06:35 PM
#33
Senior Member
Rumors have swirled about the next-generation SL-Class, and now Mercedes-AMG head Tobias Moers has confirmed development is underway with direct oversight from AMG.
The information comes from a Thursday AutoCar report. It marks the first time AMG has overseen the SL-Class, and it means the next-generation model will have an inherently sportier and performance-oriented character. The plan to take the SL-Class into new performance realms spurred Mercedes-Benz to hand development over to AMG exclusively. Moers added the SL-Class and next AMG GT will share a platform: the Modular Sports Architecture.
Moers said he's honored the brand he oversees has been tasked with the development of the next SL and the division isn't taking it lightly. He said the next car will bring back the "historic DNA" found in the SL-Class, which dates back to the beloved Gullwing models of the 1950s. Autocar also reported the next SL-Class will revert to a soft-top roof instead of the hard-top it has used for recent generations. The move will reduce weight in AMG's mission to make the convertible lighter, faster, and more engaging to drive.
The information comes from a Thursday AutoCar report. It marks the first time AMG has overseen the SL-Class, and it means the next-generation model will have an inherently sportier and performance-oriented character. The plan to take the SL-Class into new performance realms spurred Mercedes-Benz to hand development over to AMG exclusively. Moers added the SL-Class and next AMG GT will share a platform: the Modular Sports Architecture.
Moers said he's honored the brand he oversees has been tasked with the development of the next SL and the division isn't taking it lightly. He said the next car will bring back the "historic DNA" found in the SL-Class, which dates back to the beloved Gullwing models of the 1950s. Autocar also reported the next SL-Class will revert to a soft-top roof instead of the hard-top it has used for recent generations. The move will reduce weight in AMG's mission to make the convertible lighter, faster, and more engaging to drive.
04-18-2019, 06:47 PM
#34
MBWorld Fanatic!
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Maryland, United States
Posts: 3,745
Received 1,189 Likes
on
915 Posts
2015 SL400 (M276 Turbo), 2014 C350 Sport (M276 NA), 2004 SL500, 2004 Audi TT225
Crap! What were we talking about?
The following users liked this post:
Matt Beall (05-10-2019)
04-19-2019, 08:53 PM
#35
MBworld Guru
04-20-2019, 08:58 PM
#36
MBWorld Fanatic!
https://www.motor1.com/news/345403/a...r-mercedes-sl/
Looks like they want to make it a 2+2 seating vehicle since the soft top will give it more room to work from what they are saying. And rumor has it the S coupe and S convertible will not be returning on the next S model, so this all makes sense then.
The first article mentions the lineup may be 450, 53, and 63 (based on the hp number), but I'm hoping they still keep it 450, 550, and 63. Honestly though, I wouldn't be surprised if they only had 53 and 63 since AMG is taking over (like the AMG GT 4-door). That is also what I would expect for the next AMG GT 2-door (and figure no soft top option on that since the SL will fill that place) and the addition of 2 rear seats as well for the coupe.
Ideally, the AMG GT lineup for me is not necessary. The CLS and 4-door GT are quite similar already. And I was hoping that with the new SL getting 2+2 seating and a soft top, that a 2-door coupe version would be offered. Me personally, I would have offered a SL coupe, SL convertible, and then a SL 4-door coupe version to replace the CLS model name (exactly following what BMW had done with the 6 series). I would also get rid of the CLA name and blend it with the new A class as a 4-door coupe version (the Mercedes model lineups the last 5 years are really starting to spin my head).
Looks like they want to make it a 2+2 seating vehicle since the soft top will give it more room to work from what they are saying. And rumor has it the S coupe and S convertible will not be returning on the next S model, so this all makes sense then.
The first article mentions the lineup may be 450, 53, and 63 (based on the hp number), but I'm hoping they still keep it 450, 550, and 63. Honestly though, I wouldn't be surprised if they only had 53 and 63 since AMG is taking over (like the AMG GT 4-door). That is also what I would expect for the next AMG GT 2-door (and figure no soft top option on that since the SL will fill that place) and the addition of 2 rear seats as well for the coupe.
Ideally, the AMG GT lineup for me is not necessary. The CLS and 4-door GT are quite similar already. And I was hoping that with the new SL getting 2+2 seating and a soft top, that a 2-door coupe version would be offered. Me personally, I would have offered a SL coupe, SL convertible, and then a SL 4-door coupe version to replace the CLS model name (exactly following what BMW had done with the 6 series). I would also get rid of the CLA name and blend it with the new A class as a 4-door coupe version (the Mercedes model lineups the last 5 years are really starting to spin my head).
04-20-2019, 09:58 PM
#37
MBworld Guru
Even though I am sad to see the SL as we know it morphed into something else, I will say that MBZ has become very adept at creating a dizzying array of models. Years ago , they said they wanted to build cars for everyone. I think they are really trying to do that.
