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So you are checking the control signals to a pair of relays under the hood? Do you think they might not be functioning correctly? How did the check on the pump relay go?
So you are checking the control signals to a pair of relays under the hood? Do you think they might not be functioning correctly? How did the check on the pump relay go?
Ok so I tried with the multimeter and this is what happened.
I check the relay closest to the trunk and it showed 11.8V
I put it back in and checked the other relay. It started at 10V and then quickly cycled to 0
I tried again on the first relay and it did the same, instead of staying at 11.8V, it started at 10 and then cycled to 0
I re-tried it all with the key in the ignition and turned all the way to the right but got the same result.
Not sure what this means or if I did it correctly.
I had the impression you were measuring these voltages at the relay sockets under the hood. I now think you are describing measurements at the pump relay socket while various relays are installed. I know it slows this process but before I go further can you confirm my new assumption is correct?
I had the impression you were measuring these voltages at the relay sockets under the hood. I now think you are describing measurements at the pump relay socket while various relays are installed. I know it slows this process but before I go further can you confirm my new assumption is correct?
I am really grateful for the advice you're giving me.
You are correct, the measurements I mentioned above are from the two Pump relay sockets under the trunk. Let me know if I need to measure a different way. I tried to measure under the hood but my multimeter's sticks are too thick and I couldn't get them to fit inside the sockets to measure them under the hood.
I hope this troubleshoot does not come to the point of having to interpret those voltages you report, alexisvx, because at this moment they make no sense to me. Two things to try:
With each relay removed, what is the resistance in ohms between #85 and #86. Also, what does the voltage measurement between the sockets for #85 and #86 look like if you have no relay installed?
I hope this troubleshoot does not come to the point of having to interpret those voltages you report, alexisvx, because at this moment they make no sense to me. Two things to try:
With each relay removed, what is the resistance in ohms between #85 and #86. Also, what does the voltage measurement between the sockets for #85 and #86 look like if you have no relay installed?
The ohms are 75.3 on both pump relays. The voltage on the pump sockets start at 9 when I press the EZ pack button and then fall to 0 within a second or 2. This is for both pump sockets.
Those relay coils measure perfectly fine. It certainly seems that your roof controller is faulty.
There is one more check I can think of. With the relay removed measure the resistance of socket #85 to the battery negative terminal and perform the same measurement with socket #86: one should be zero ohms, the other should be infinite.
I'm uncomfortable telling you to replace your roof controller without getting other opinions. Maybe I'm overlooking something simple. I'm sending you a PM!
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Last edited by seven_out; Mar 1, 2020 at 10:27 PM.
When you press the switch to operate the roof there are numerous status inputs which the controller checks for validity before it runs the pump. Without a diagnostic reader it is very tedious to check those inputs to see if they are preventing the pump from running.
I've been going through the menus for different controllers with "simDAS". I started with ABC to familiarize myself with that, and from there I focused on the roof. Below are those conditions for the roll bar to operate. The roof and Load Assist are similar.
I'm finding this software is much easier to learn than I had expected. There are something like 35 controllers, and they all have the same basic menu layout. So when you get to know one controller really well and learn where to find things, moving to other controls have an immediate familiarity.
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The voltage on the pump sockets start at 9 when I press the EZ pack button and then fall to 0 within a second or 2. This is for both pump sockets.
One of those two sockets is wired to chassis ground, so there can not be 9 volts between that socket and ground. When you measure a voltage you put one lead on ground and the other on the point you are trying to measure, right?
Hang on, something isn't right:
One of those two sockets is wired to chassis ground, so there can not be 9 volts between that socket and ground. When you measure a voltage you put one lead on ground and the other on the point you are trying to measure, right?
So I re-measured, this time putting one of the multimeter cables on a bolt attached to the pump.
I get 10 volts for 1 or 2 seconds when I press the EZ button from one socket and 0 votls from the other. This for both of the relays on the pump.
I'm still at where I was half a dozen posts ago: The controller seems suspect, but I'm not certain it is your problem.
Typically Star Diagnosis can pinpoint the cause of most issues, but I'm not at all sure in this case. In comparison to other vehicle systems its diagnostic capabilities with the roof seem limited. For example, I can test the air pump on my engine using Star Diagnosis to switch it off and on. I can not do the same with the roof hydraulic pump.
You could take a chance on a used replacement controller. But they cost around $350, and it might be something of a fuss to install it.
I can't recommend a course of action that is certain to fix your problem. So, maybe the least costly option is best: An inexpensive Star Diagnosis system. Rudeney gives a pretty good survey of options here. He mentions the availability of free software. I think that is generally had via torrent, and I'm not familiar with that. You can certainly get it from a member who is on another forum, and I will PM you the forum and the username.
2005 R 230 SL350 (M112 3.7). Sold the 1966 W113 230SL recently
Keep it small until you’re forced to go big. What I am missing in this thread (or I missed it ) is the role of micro switches. The pump will not engage (and nothing happens, probably apart from the windows) when one of them fails to report back as it should, be it open or closed. According to a diagnostic document, from the 13 switches checking the roof status, the following 6 switches are suspect when the roof fails to start closing altogether (and the trunk lid doesn’t reverse either): S69/1, S69/11, S117, S119, S126/1 and S127/1.
Your easiest checks by far are S126/1 and S127/1. These switches report back that the notoriously slacking flaps on your trunk lid are fully open. Open the trunk and gently press the flaps just a little further if you can. If you hear a micro switch click you’ve found your electrical problem. And we go from there.
Last edited by Frederick NL; Mar 6, 2020 at 02:20 PM.
Keep it small until you’re forced to go big. What I am missing in this thread (or I missed it ) is the role of micro switches. The pump will not engage (and nothing happens, probably apart from the windows) when one of them fails to report back as it should, be it open or closed. According to a diagnostic document, from the 13 switches checking the roof status, the following 6 switches are suspect when the roof fails to start closing altogether (and the trunk lid doesn’t reverse either): S69/1, S69/11, S117, S119, S126/1 and S127/1.
Your easiest checks by far are S126/1 and S127/1. These switches report back that the notoriously slacking flaps on your trunk lid are fully open. Open the trunk and gently press the flaps just a little further if you can. If you hear a micro switch click you’ve found your electrical problem. And we go from there.
I opened the trunk and pressed on the flaps but couldn't hear anything. You mean that I should press the flaps down correct? In any case I pressed them from either side but I didn't hear anything. I am at work so it is a bit loud here, I can try later today at home to see if I can hear something.
2005 R 230 SL350 (M112 3.7). Sold the 1966 W113 230SL recently
Both switches, left and right, should audibly click at the end of their travel either way. In your situation with the roof open the status of the flaps must be recognized as completely open, before the closing cycle can start.
To know if one of the switches fails to do so, you can press the flaps a tad further open (go easy) to hear if that causes a click. The switch sits against the arm, you’ll see the wiring.
Confession: the same switches are more likely to fail in the ‘retracted’ position, which they also report (over another wire combo). But it’s worth trying.
Someone with even a hand scanner (Icarsoft MB or Foxwell 510) can easily check all switches.
Last edited by Frederick NL; Mar 6, 2020 at 03:38 PM.
There are many switches that must function for the roof to work properly, but none of them affect the Load Assist (EZ Pack). I feel sure someone will post a Star Diagnosis screenshot or similar which shows this.
2005 R 230 SL350 (M112 3.7). Sold the 1966 W113 230SL recently
Perhaps a far cry, but for the EZ to work the trunk lid must be fully open - again to be confirmed by a clicking micro switch, mounted in the right hinge. And the luggage divider must be moved forward, this time to be confirmed by a clicking switch in the right retaining hook.
For the roof, roll bar, and Load Assist there are switches that must work. There is no switch that is common to each function, and yet the pump behaves the same with each function.
I presume the luggage divider switch is fine, otherwise he would have gotten a message for this when he operated the roof switch.
I do not mean to discourage anyone from checking switches. But since it can be tedious to do a thorough check without a diagnostic system, I think it is important to mention the logic which excludes them from being an issue. Note that while a switch clicking is usually an indication it is working -- particularly on a newer car -- this needn't be the case, since the electrical contacts are what eventually wear out.
For the roof, roll bar, and Load Assist there are switches that must work. There is no switch that is common to each function, and yet the pump behaves the same with each function.
I presume the luggage divider switch is fine, otherwise he would have gotten a message for this when he operated the roof switch.
I do not mean to discourage anyone from checking switches. But since it can be tedious to do a thorough check without a diagnostic system, I think it is important to mention the logic which excludes them from being an issue. Note that while a switch clicking is usually an indication it is working -- particularly on a newer car -- this needn't be the case, since the electrical contacts are what eventually wear out.
I took the car to the MB dealership and they did an initial diagnostic and couldn't find anything and want to do a more thorough inspection. I assume they used the diagnostic and found nothing. I have found a indy Mercedes shop and will take it there next week.
I think it also makes sense for me to buy a diagnostic tool but before doing that I want to see what the indy shop will say in case the repair is massive. I have to do a few more repairs, some I can do on my own and some that I'll need to have the shop done so don't want to spend money on the tool right this minute.
I wish I could diagnose more on my own without a tool.
2005 R 230 SL350 (M112 3.7). Sold the 1966 W113 230SL recently
Originally Posted by Rod_84
I think it is important to mention the logic which excludes them from being an issue. Note that while a switch clicking is usually an indication it is working -- particularly on a newer car -- this needn't be the case, since the electrical contacts are what eventually wear out.
All of that is true. I always check the simple things first. And you’re quite right.
I think a problem with taking an R230 to a dealer or shop is that they may assign a tech to your car who has never been trained on the Vario Roof and may have little experience with it.
You can't switch the pump on and off with Star Diagnosis, but it will show you what the controller software is calling for (attachment). If the software status is showing the relay should be energized when you measure zero volts, then you know the controller hardware has failed. Otherwise, if the controller seems okay, then you would look at a status screen like Seven Out showed to determine what is causing the controller to switch off the relay.
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It turns out that there were two problems with my top not closing.
First, the trunk lock assembly needed to be replaced. After that was fixed, it turns out that the pump itself needs replacing which is also what that smell was.
I am thinking of sending my pump to tophydraulics.com. Has anyone got experience with them? They seem to be really good and a better alternative than buying a pump on e-bay.
It turns out that there were two problems with my top not closing.
First, the trunk lock assembly needed to be replaced. After that was fixed, it turns out that the pump itself needs replacing which is also what that smell was.
I am thinking of sending my pump to tophydraulics.com. Has anyone got experience with them? They seem to be really good and a better alternative than buying a pump on e-bay.
If you feel capable (it’s an easy job) remove the PSE pump and open it up. If the fault is caused by an impeller failure it’s an easy DIY fix and the impeller is somewhere round the $75 mark for the part. Just done mine so can vouch it’s an easy job.
If you feel capable (it’s an easy job) remove the PSE pump and open it up. If the fault is caused by an impeller failure it’s an easy DIY fix and the impeller is somewhere round the $75 mark for the part. Just done mine so can vouch it’s an easy job.
I sent it in to Top Hydraulics, I should have it back next week!
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) is the role of micro switches. The pump will not engage (and nothing happens, probably apart from the windows) when one of them fails to report back as it should, be it open or closed. According to a diagnostic document, from the 13 switches checking the roof status, the following 6 switches are suspect when the roof fails to start closing altogether (and the trunk lid doesn’t reverse either): S69/1, S69/11, S117, S119, S126/1 and S127/1.
