SL/R230: Creaking Roof
08-23-2004, 07:38 AM
#1
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Creaking Roof
Does your roof creak? Mine does. The car is fine when it's down, when it's up, it's creak creak creak all the time. I'm about to book it in for the SBC recall, so want them to look at the roof as well.
Once clue is the different gap widths left and right where the roof meets the cant rail across the top of the windshield which is where the noise comes from. This might then be an alignment problem. Does you car have the same difference or are the gaps the same?
Once clue is the different gap widths left and right where the roof meets the cant rail across the top of the windshield which is where the noise comes from. This might then be an alignment problem. Does you car have the same difference or are the gaps the same?
08-23-2004, 08:43 AM
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sl 500
wow, that's a gap alright. is it that obvious or is it the angle of your photos
hope mind does not do it yet being only 2 months old. i figure by 3 years i will here all type of creeks and then aching to change the car
monty
hope mind does not do it yet being only 2 months old. i figure by 3 years i will here all type of creeks and then aching to change the car
monty
08-23-2004, 08:52 AM
#3
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It's not the angle of the pictures, it's as it is. The car should last alot longer than 3 years - in theory, the SL is the first car to reverse the previous trend of deteriorating quality.
08-23-2004, 05:43 PM
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2007 CLS550 (White w/black interior);2008 smart CABRIO
Creaking roof problem solved:
My 2003 SL 500 (Launch Edition, mfg 02/2002, is about 30 months old) recently developed a creaking sound when roof was up; local Mercedes dealer, under warranty, applied some "lubricant" at front locking connections above front windshield--and the problem was resolved! There have been no problems since then, and roof is cycled usually more than once per day in summer, fall and spring in the Central Mountains of Pennsylvania, USA.
Giff Albright of State College, PA
Giff Albright of State College, PA
08-24-2004, 04:27 AM
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2007 CLS550 (White w/black interior);2008 smart CABRIO
for BLUE SL - gaps in top joint at windshield
The gaps at the roof and windshield seemed large to me, on my 2003 SL 500 car; BUT, they are sized equally on each side---NO PROBLEMS
Giff Albright of State College, Pennsylvania, USA
Giff Albright of State College, Pennsylvania, USA
Go to BMW dealer and purchase some Gummi Phlege
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09-15-2004, 08:23 PM
#12
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AMG GTC Roadster, E63s Ed.1, M8 Comp. Coupe
BlueSL,
It would probably make sense to look at it from the outside and see of how the roof aligns with the A-pillars (and the seals). You should see that right away. If its not tight, it may be front locking clamp on your passenger side. The Interior trim should of course be the same, but it can have more play when loose.
We have over 22k miles on our car and the roof is just fine (the streets here aren't great either). I did have some creaking during the last winter, but some simple lubrication did the trick as well (on ours it was the rear panels left and right of the rear window, they also lubricated all rubber seals).
Whatever you have described already is not normal and should get fixed. Good luck!
Wolfman
It would probably make sense to look at it from the outside and see of how the roof aligns with the A-pillars (and the seals). You should see that right away. If its not tight, it may be front locking clamp on your passenger side. The Interior trim should of course be the same, but it can have more play when loose.
We have over 22k miles on our car and the roof is just fine (the streets here aren't great either). I did have some creaking during the last winter, but some simple lubrication did the trick as well (on ours it was the rear panels left and right of the rear window, they also lubricated all rubber seals).
Whatever you have described already is not normal and should get fixed. Good luck!
Wolfman
09-16-2004, 03:26 AM
#13
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It's curious, because the alignment from the outside looks perfect but given that the body shells are built to a tolerance of less than 1mm, a difference in the gap does suggest some alignment problem. I'm thinking the roof is beinh clamped too tightly on one side and not tightly enough on the other.
Anyway, the car has sprung another hydraulic leak, all over the garage floor, and this time, I decided I was not going to take the car in, so Mercedes came and picked it up and the car was last seen heading to Oxford on the back of a truck. I've told them they can keep their car until the roof problem, the hydraulic problem, the brake problem and the SBC recall are all done.
Anyway, the car has sprung another hydraulic leak, all over the garage floor, and this time, I decided I was not going to take the car in, so Mercedes came and picked it up and the car was last seen heading to Oxford on the back of a truck. I've told them they can keep their car until the roof problem, the hydraulic problem, the brake problem and the SBC recall are all done.
10-06-2004, 04:24 AM
#14
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Well, they fixed the hydraulic leak (new ABC control unit), fixed the brakes (see my SL55 posting) and fixing the roof consisted of adjusting the fitting of the roof liner plus applying lots of sticky goo anywhere they could find to try to stop the creaking. At least the left/right gap is the same now (just cosmetic).
Some improvement and it's pretty much fine on smooth road surfaces. Go on to minor roads and still not good - I get nothing like it on my SL600 which is much less stiffer than the SL55. There was talk of additional spot welds in the car to stiffen it, but that seems to me to be a modification too far.
I daresay a current year model is better which only shows it's best not to be near the front of the queue as I was. That's why I'm keeping a low profile over the Aston while they sort themselves out. Besides, I may yet be wooed by an Italian stunner instead, the F430.
Some improvement and it's pretty much fine on smooth road surfaces. Go on to minor roads and still not good - I get nothing like it on my SL600 which is much less stiffer than the SL55. There was talk of additional spot welds in the car to stiffen it, but that seems to me to be a modification too far.
I daresay a current year model is better which only shows it's best not to be near the front of the queue as I was. That's why I'm keeping a low profile over the Aston while they sort themselves out. Besides, I may yet be wooed by an Italian stunner instead, the F430.
10-07-2004, 12:18 AM
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2014 C250 sport
great! When you say "minor roads still not good", do you mean that the roof still creaks or the chassis shakes when going over bad roads?? Anyways, adding more spot welds is ridiculous because the R230's chassis is one of the stiffest of any convertible out there, would not help and is too much work, as you said ... 
10-07-2004, 02:19 AM
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Yes, on minor roads, where there will be more suspension activity and potentially more body flexing, the roof is still creaking along the cant rail at the top of the windshield. It's better but it's not perfect, but the creaking has moved to the passenger side.
I agree that the R230 is extremely stiff but that may be it's undoing. A stiff body shell makes for accurate suspension alignment and a solid feel on the road. However, a stiff structure cannot absorb energy, all it can do is transmit force or torsion from A to B. In the R230, twisting forces on the body shell will eventually be transmitted through the rigid body shell to the point where the stiffness runs out and cause real movement - in my case, at the top of the windshield - and its this movement which is causing the roof to creak because it cannot move freely. They've applied lots of goo to lubricate things (which is now acting as a dirt trap and I'm experimenting with solvents to remove it, it's all over the glass) but I think the issue is that the latches are holding the roof too tight. They should be tight enough to ensure good sealing against the rubber seal but not so tight as to prevent movement.
Extreme stiffness is not always good - that's where the major advance in road safety came from when deformable crash structures were introduced. Previously, cars were made stiffer and stiffer - more tank-like - and people were still dying because the energy of a crash was being transmitted directly to them through the extremely stiff structures - a car built on an old ladder chassis is not good news. Crash structures intentionally deform progressively to absorb some of the crash energy reducing what goes into the passenger compartment.
I agree that the R230 is extremely stiff but that may be it's undoing. A stiff body shell makes for accurate suspension alignment and a solid feel on the road. However, a stiff structure cannot absorb energy, all it can do is transmit force or torsion from A to B. In the R230, twisting forces on the body shell will eventually be transmitted through the rigid body shell to the point where the stiffness runs out and cause real movement - in my case, at the top of the windshield - and its this movement which is causing the roof to creak because it cannot move freely. They've applied lots of goo to lubricate things (which is now acting as a dirt trap and I'm experimenting with solvents to remove it, it's all over the glass) but I think the issue is that the latches are holding the roof too tight. They should be tight enough to ensure good sealing against the rubber seal but not so tight as to prevent movement.
Extreme stiffness is not always good - that's where the major advance in road safety came from when deformable crash structures were introduced. Previously, cars were made stiffer and stiffer - more tank-like - and people were still dying because the energy of a crash was being transmitted directly to them through the extremely stiff structures - a car built on an old ladder chassis is not good news. Crash structures intentionally deform progressively to absorb some of the crash energy reducing what goes into the passenger compartment.
10-08-2004, 12:22 AM
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An F430! :v Sounds pretty good. The F430 is much faster than the current 360, and is sure to be a hoot to drive as it can only be better than the very good 360 with further suspension adjustments and aerodynamics. Would cancel the Aston if you were to buy this car?
10-08-2004, 02:55 AM
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Originally Posted by blueSL
Yes, on minor roads, where there will be more suspension activity and potentially more body flexing, the roof is still creaking along the cant rail at the top of the windshield. It's better but it's not perfect, but the creaking has moved to the passenger side.
I agree that the R230 is extremely stiff but that may be it's undoing. A stiff body shell makes for accurate suspension alignment and a solid feel on the road. However, a stiff structure cannot absorb energy, all it can do is transmit force or torsion from A to B. In the R230, twisting forces on the body shell will eventually be transmitted through the rigid body shell to the point where the stiffness runs out and cause real movement - in my case, at the top of the windshield - and its this movement which is causing the roof to creak because it cannot move freely. They've applied lots of goo to lubricate things (which is now acting as a dirt trap and I'm experimenting with solvents to remove it, it's all over the glass) but I think the issue is that the latches are holding the roof too tight. They should be tight enough to ensure good sealing against the rubber seal but not so tight as to prevent movement.
Extreme stiffness is not always good - that's where the major advance in road safety came from when deformable crash structures were introduced. Previously, cars were made stiffer and stiffer - more tank-like - and people were still dying because the energy of a crash was being transmitted directly to them through the extremely stiff structures - a car built on an old ladder chassis is not good news. Crash structures intentionally deform progressively to absorb some of the crash energy reducing what goes into the passenger compartment.
I agree that the R230 is extremely stiff but that may be it's undoing. A stiff body shell makes for accurate suspension alignment and a solid feel on the road. However, a stiff structure cannot absorb energy, all it can do is transmit force or torsion from A to B. In the R230, twisting forces on the body shell will eventually be transmitted through the rigid body shell to the point where the stiffness runs out and cause real movement - in my case, at the top of the windshield - and its this movement which is causing the roof to creak because it cannot move freely. They've applied lots of goo to lubricate things (which is now acting as a dirt trap and I'm experimenting with solvents to remove it, it's all over the glass) but I think the issue is that the latches are holding the roof too tight. They should be tight enough to ensure good sealing against the rubber seal but not so tight as to prevent movement.
Extreme stiffness is not always good - that's where the major advance in road safety came from when deformable crash structures were introduced. Previously, cars were made stiffer and stiffer - more tank-like - and people were still dying because the energy of a crash was being transmitted directly to them through the extremely stiff structures - a car built on an old ladder chassis is not good news. Crash structures intentionally deform progressively to absorb some of the crash energy reducing what goes into the passenger compartment.
10-08-2004, 04:22 AM
#20
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A stiff body shell is important because it maintains an accurate and constant suspension geometry which is key to achieving the driving characteristics we take for granted, like self-centering steering, even tyre wear, no tendency to wander left and right under acceleration or braking. The adjustments are very small and a flexible body shell will just upset them.
The issue with any convertible is that the torsional rigidity is lessened when the roof is removed. Even though the roof may not be hugely strong, its stiffness acts far away from the axis of rotation and so is quite effective in stiffening the structure. Without the roof, any additional stiffness provided by welding in reinforcing steel will act much closer to the axis, be less effective and therefore more will be required.
The reason Land Rovers are made the way they are is for extreme durability rather than precison handling and the odd creak is not going to worry you.
Next time you stare out along the length of a 747 wing in flight and see it bending upwards, that stretching of the wing is distributing the weight of the aircraft along its length, in essence, the weight of the plane is being carried in part by the tension in the wing material. If the wing was completely rigid, the weight of the plane would simply translate to a huge bending moment at the wing root.
The issue with any convertible is that the torsional rigidity is lessened when the roof is removed. Even though the roof may not be hugely strong, its stiffness acts far away from the axis of rotation and so is quite effective in stiffening the structure. Without the roof, any additional stiffness provided by welding in reinforcing steel will act much closer to the axis, be less effective and therefore more will be required.
The reason Land Rovers are made the way they are is for extreme durability rather than precison handling and the odd creak is not going to worry you.
Next time you stare out along the length of a 747 wing in flight and see it bending upwards, that stretching of the wing is distributing the weight of the aircraft along its length, in essence, the weight of the plane is being carried in part by the tension in the wing material. If the wing was completely rigid, the weight of the plane would simply translate to a huge bending moment at the wing root.
10-08-2004, 01:08 PM
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Mercedes C400, BMW X3
Be sure to post after your drive
BlueSL, be sure to post your impressions of the DB9 after your test drive. See if they will tell you what changes they have planned for any of the car's deficiencies. Thanks.
10-15-2004, 02:16 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by Modeer
giffscpa, what dealership did you buy the car from in SC? Thanks
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10-15-2004, 03:05 AM
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'04 S430 4 Matic and '05 997
Its amazing to me that people will put up with a creaking roof in a 120 K car.
MB has got to be the luckiest car company on earth. Nobody would tolerate this even from a Yugo.
MB has got to be the luckiest car company on earth. Nobody would tolerate this even from a Yugo.
10-16-2004, 10:05 PM
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SL500 and A-CLASS
My SL500 has about 15K miles with no noise. I wonder if the frame is bent a little. The insurance company sent my SLK320 to a certified Mercedes body shop to fix the creaking noise. The body shop discovered that the car was off about 5 millimeters on the passenger side.
12-21-2004, 10:41 PM
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Originally Posted by blueSL
A stiff body shell is important because it maintains an accurate and constant suspension geometry which is key to achieving the driving characteristics we take for granted, like self-centering steering, even tyre wear, no tendency to wander left and right under acceleration or braking. The adjustments are very small and a flexible body shell will just upset them.
The issue with any convertible is that the torsional rigidity is lessened when the roof is removed. Even though the roof may not be hugely strong, its stiffness acts far away from the axis of rotation and so is quite effective in stiffening the structure. Without the roof, any additional stiffness provided by welding in reinforcing steel will act much closer to the axis, be less effective and therefore more will be required.
The reason Land Rovers are made the way they are is for extreme durability rather than precison handling and the odd creak is not going to worry you.
Next time you stare out along the length of a 747 wing in flight and see it bending upwards, that stretching of the wing is distributing the weight of the aircraft along its length, in essence, the weight of the plane is being carried in part by the tension in the wing material. If the wing was completely rigid, the weight of the plane would simply translate to a huge bending moment at the wing root.
The issue with any convertible is that the torsional rigidity is lessened when the roof is removed. Even though the roof may not be hugely strong, its stiffness acts far away from the axis of rotation and so is quite effective in stiffening the structure. Without the roof, any additional stiffness provided by welding in reinforcing steel will act much closer to the axis, be less effective and therefore more will be required.
The reason Land Rovers are made the way they are is for extreme durability rather than precison handling and the odd creak is not going to worry you.
Next time you stare out along the length of a 747 wing in flight and see it bending upwards, that stretching of the wing is distributing the weight of the aircraft along its length, in essence, the weight of the plane is being carried in part by the tension in the wing material. If the wing was completely rigid, the weight of the plane would simply translate to a huge bending moment at the wing root.
In the roller coaster world we have a saying for this, "If it doesn't shake, it breaks."
