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Any anti-sway bars matches available on stock vehicles..?
Mercedarios, I have read all your comments and really appreciate to share your experiences. I purchased my SL-500 fairly cheap with few gremlins and a bad ABC, so I went directly to my own version of coil-overs, which came out to be half price of the available kits. I used Bilstein struts, Swedish original coils and adapted stock strut mounts!
I started testing the dynamic of the vehicle and it tilts some in the turns, not alarming. My coils are somewhat stiff and not too much tire diving, but.................. if I find a stock bar that I can adapt to the car I will do it..! I am not too much in spending too much money on my "spare" vehicles and try to get them road worthy with the least possible expense. I have been searching my local junk yard for a possible donor, I have had no luck yet..! Not many SL350 around...! Would like to know if any of you have found any anti-sway bars from other vehicles.
Thank you and keep these SL's turning fast with no worries!
I was wondering if someone have tried to use the commonly used in racing splined anti-sway bars. Using these will avoid all the job of disconnecting the subframe.
Typically it is a straight bar with splines at the ends where matching female splined arms are attached.
I was wondering if someone have tried to use the commonly used in racing splined anti-sway bars. Using these will avoid all the job of disconnecting the subframe.
Typically it is a straight bar with splines at the ends where matching female splined arms are attached.
I haven't actually tried that type of bar, but having spent plenty of time under my car I don't think it would work very well. The only way I see you could install that type of bar would be to mount it below the subframe; at normal SL ride height your ground clearance would be awful, you'd be dragging it over speedbumps, driveways, etc.
It's really not that hard to drop the subframe - you don't have to completely remove the subframe, you can leave the suspension and steering rack in place and just let the subframe hang down a few inches to allow installation of the bar. Also, the V8 cars have the same front frame rails as the SL350, so the threaded holes for the bar frame mounts are already there (V12 cars have different front frame rails, so you have to weld in the sway bar mounts; not a terribly difficult welding job, but an additional job nonetheless).
Here's a video of how to drop the subframe for swaybar installation, it's really pretty easy. Also, it'll take just a few extra minutes to replace your engine mounts while doing this job, so you might want to do that.
I hear you Bruce....seems easy when you have the right tools...among them a lift! But, I think from the floor may be doable. I got me a Mammoth bar, 32 mm in diameter from an older V-8 Mercedes. Checking the fit before starting that journey!! Thanks for the tips!
With the suspension side of things and Mercedes, engineering flaws seem to be designed in. The w211 e55 I have will drop in the frame when the suspension fails, r230 undriveable when it drops. I owned a Lincoln mark 7 LSC and when the air suspension failed the car could still be driven safely to a repair site. Mercedes seemingly won’t do that, and usually getting the car in the rollback causes body damage
increasing the cost and aggravation.
All of the Mercedes I have owner with hydraulic suspension from 126 to r129 to the 230 have had issues with lower mileage. I’m not a great fan of air suspension either, but it’s less problematic for me.
My sl55 has 43,000 miles on it and I have flushed the fluid twice, The car will drop corners sometimes in less than 30 minutes, and when in park and running it slowly raises up to full extend on all four corners. It’s really disappointing and unnecessary, but realistically why these cars are not worth much.
Coilovers may not be for everyone, but maintaining a flawed design when there is a simpler solution isn’t for me. No more chf11s flushes at $20 quart and concerning myself with expensive parts replacements.
It should be noted that my cars are lowered so the ABC ride is diminished from stock height. The coilover aren’t much of a comfort change. Cars with stock ride height may have different results.
SUPER helpful thread here and I appreciate and respect all the perspectives as I have a SL55 with a failing ABC system and am having to determine what to do.....
Unfortunately every owner of a SL55 / SL500 (R230) car will eventually face the decision about addressing their problematic and aging ABC system which should be based on your own personal style of driving the car, ownership timeline and and your personal TCO (total cost of ownership) threshold obviously.
If you track or aggressively drive your SL/SL500 (and money isnt an option) then I understand the argument for investing in repairing the ABC system with OEM parts which would ensure the exact driving experience as Mercedes AMG engineers designed the car and ABC suspension system to provide.
If you are like me and ]your SL55/SL500 is a 3rd or 4th car driven for purely leisure purposes (non-daily and no track / no aggressive cornering) then I understand the argument for the coil over option which seems to provide a more reliable and safe suspension system for a non-aggressive driving style AND it greatly reduces your TCO and maintenance costs compared to the ABC option which on these older cars is unpredictable and prone to failure even if well maintained (ie: sagging, leaks with pump, lines, accumulator, struts, valve block etc).
I personally am just fed up with the unreliability of the ABC suspension in my 2004 SL55 with only 72k miles which I've owned for 3 years now (3rd owner) as purely a leisure weekend car which I cannot enjoy due to repeated puddles of Pentosin on my garage floor, intermittent sagging issues and red ABC alarms. Based on this I've decided to have Brandon at Gold Element replace my ABC with the Silvers Neomax coilover kit which he has installed numerous times for owners with similar driving style as myself and all have had very good feedback.
My decision again is based on my personal driving style / use case for my SL55 as a non-track car that is driven 1-2 days a month maximum and I need it to be reliable, safe and to work within my TCO expectations for the car. When I want to drive more aggressively or head to the track then the SL55 will NOT be the car that I take (but I assume would still be safe and perform decent) and I have my 996T and Corvette Z06 which work better for that specific use case or take my E63S if I just want crazy power with super comfortable cruising.
Now, If I was going to frequently track or aggressively drive my SL55 then I would absolutely repair the ABC system so the car works exactly as intended from the Mercedes AMG factory and just accept the high cost of owner ship on a 18 year old car that was over $120k when new and had very sophisticated technology back at that time.
I do really love my SL55 and couldn't imagine selling it but this ABC situation was just too stressful to deal with for me.... I'm optimistic that my decision to go the coil over route will provide years of safe and reliable driving which is all I want from my SL55
I will provide an update later in March when my coil overs are installed and share my impressions with the forum here..... thx J
The stiffer the spring rate is , the less the sway bar works. The sway bar increases spring rate in cornering applications by weight transfer.
Softer springs without anti sway bars will roll more than a car with stiffer or more spring rate. Roll center will affect this as well. Maybe my coilovers have stiffer rates than others have, and I have the car lowered 1” or so.
Some of the historic doom and gloom on the topic predates coil-over conversion options and was associated mainly with Strutmasters conversion kits (standard struts and springs).
My only direct point of experience was with an ABC-deleted W220 S600. Fine in a straight line and compliant over road imperfections. Once you loaded up the suspension, however, the behavior was sloppy and dangerous.
Good to hear people are not experiencing these issues with the coil-over options of today. If it was my car, though, I would add sway bars. After all, the factory engineers deemed it necessary for both the SL350 and the SL65 Black Series.
Hi Juanmor40,
Have read damn near EVERY R230 ABC vs COILOVER thread I can find on this and BenzWorld .. Seems that you have more insight on the coil over status than most of our group.
I have my original 9800 mites ..yep 9800 mile 03 SL500 (bought August 2003) and am a maintenance freak .. change ALL fluids every August. Last month the ABC system failed .. front pressure reservoir line! Since the car is 19 years old with 19 year old rubber ABC lines and I do NOT wish to make frequent trips to the shop for another small part ..the refill and the rodeo .. I am considering installing the VVK coilpvers with super sport (extra stiff springs and both front and rear roll bars.
I used to race SCCA MANY years ago and am used to handling FIRST...then, comfort. After safety.
Based on your previous threads and info therein,would appreciate your views and comments...
You may want to ask someone that actually owns an R230, and go even further to ask someone that has that coilover kit installed on the R230 they own. A few who posted here don’t have either.
Hi Juanmor40,
Have read damn near EVERY R230 ABC vs COILOVER thread I can find on this and BenzWorld .. Seems that you have more insight on the coil over status than most of our group.
I have my original 9800 mites ..yep 9800 mile 03 SL500 (bought August 2003) and am a maintenance freak .. change ALL fluids every August. Last month the ABC system failed .. front pressure reservoir line! Since the car is 19 years old with 19 year old rubber ABC lines and I do NOT wish to make frequent trips to the shop for another small part ..the refill and the rodeo .. I am considering installing the VVK coilpvers with super sport (extra stiff springs and both front and rear roll bars.
I used to race SCCA MANY years ago and am used to handling FIRST...then, comfort. After safety.
Based on your previous threads and info therein,would appreciate your views and comments...
Thanks in advance.
Ron
BTW, I live in Tampa ..where are you?
Given your priorities (handling/safety > comfort), I think the VVK kit will serve you well.
I've got the VVK coilovers installed on my SL600; I went with their standard kit, not the super sport. The damping adjustment range goes from quite soft to quite hard, so IMO the super sport option would be for a car that'll see serious track time; it might be hard to live with in a daily driver, especially dependent on road quality in your area. In my experience, the standard kit with damping set to the middle of the range is a bit firmer/sportier feeling than ABC in sport mode. Also note that I haven't got my sway bars installed yet, so once those are in it'll likely feel even a bit more firm overall.
Also note that I intentionally stayed with 18" wheels to maintain the ride quality of the taller tire sidewall. Most of the roads around here are pretty decent, but there's still enough rough stuff to put me off from 19s or 20s. IMO bigger wheels would be for appearance only; I think you might get a tiny improvement in turn-in response but the fact is these are big, heavy cars that are never going to handle like a 911 no matter what combination of wheels/tires/suspension you put under them. If you've got or plan to have 19s or 20s on your car, you'll probably want to factor this into your choice between VVK standard or super sport.
Bruce, since you seem like a pretty good "encyclopedia" of R230 fixes, got a question...!
I keep on looking for the sway bar for my SL-500 2004 and found one that may fit used on SL-400 2015-2020, and on SL-63 of the same period. What are your insights on this ready available bar. Part number 231-320-14-11???
Bruce, since you seem like a pretty good "encyclopedia" of R230 fixes, got a question...!
I keep on looking for the sway bar for my SL-500 2004 and found one that may fit used on SL-400 2015-2020, and on SL-63 of the same period. What are your insights on this ready available bar. Part number 231-320-14-11???
I'm pretty sure that these later R231 models use sway bars in combination with their ABC systems, so I suspect they're going to be rather weak if used alone. Aside from that, I don't know if they'll even fit properly on an R230. I haven't seen any accounts of anyone attempting to install them on an R230.
RebuildMasterTech.com and VVK both sell complete sway bar kits. The R231 bars may seem like a much better price, but remember you also have to include all parts needed for the end links. Once you include those, the pricing becomes much closer.
For me, it's worth a couple hundred dollars to have the parts on hand that I know will work properly. But that's my situation - I'd rather not have my car taken apart, immovable, in my garage for extra weeks while trying to figure out parts fitment. That's just not worth a few hundred dollars to me, if it can be avoided.
Keep in mind that these sway bars have to fit very precisely through the oil pan area. Unlike your typical Chevy/Ford/etc. where the front sway bar is usually bolted to the bottom of the radiator support there's very little room on an R230 for something that's "pretty close". Also the rear bar has to fit pretty precisely as well in order to clear the fuel pump and filter which is mounted to the underside of the body directly above the rear axle/suspension. You have to remove the rear ABC lines that cross from left to right in order to install a rear sway bar.
Thank you for idea; which I already explored. That’s why I inquired. No email or eBay seller response. It probably would work out better for myself to get a matching pair instead of a single bar anyways but thanks.
Thank you for idea; which I already explored. That’s why I inquired. No email or eBay seller response. It probably would work out better for myself to get a matching pair instead of a single bar anyways but thanks.
Well RMT makes front and rear. I really can't see the need for the rear. Here is their direct number....For Technical Support or Questions Call Us At: (954) 934-9595
8AM to 6PM EST Monday-Friday
9AM to 5PM EST Saturday-Sunday PHONE CENTER ONLY
Great Service & Parts Quality Guaranteed!
RMT Suspension Parts
6689 NW 16th Terr
Fort Lauderdale, FL 33309
I'm pretty sure that these later R231 models use sway bars in combination with their ABC systems, so I suspect they're going to be rather weak if used alone. Aside from that, I don't know if they'll even fit properly on an R230. I haven't seen any accounts of anyone attempting to install them on an R230.
RebuildMasterTech.com and VVK both sell complete sway bar kits. The R231 bars may seem like a much better price, but remember you also have to include all parts needed for the end links. Once you include those, the pricing becomes much closer.
For me, it's worth a couple hundred dollars to have the parts on hand that I know will work properly. But that's my situation - I'd rather not have my car taken apart, immovable, in my garage for extra weeks while trying to figure out parts fitment. That's just not worth a few hundred dollars to me, if it can be avoided.
Keep in mind that these sway bars have to fit very precisely through the oil pan area. Unlike your typical Chevy/Ford/etc. where the front sway bar is usually bolted to the bottom of the radiator support there's very little room on an R230 for something that's "pretty close". Also the rear bar has to fit pretty precisely as well in order to clear the fuel pump and filter which is mounted to the underside of the body directly above the rear axle/suspension. You have to remove the rear ABC lines that cross from left to right in order to install a rear sway bar.
Do you have any information on the location and placement for the mount that needs to be welded in on the V12 swaybar? I assume the 600 would be the same as the 65?
Do you have any information on the location and placement for the mount that needs to be welded in on the V12 swaybar? I assume the 600 would be the same as the 65?
Yes, 600 is the same as the 65. The V12 R230 has different front frame rails than the V8 and V6 R230. V8 and V6 cars have the same front frame rails. Since base V6 cars came with sway bars, these frame rails have threaded bolt holes for the front sway bar. V12 frame rails do not have these threaded holes.
The weld-in mount for V12 cars are thick plates with threaded holes that get welded to the bottom surface of the frame rails. They go in basically the same spot as the factory threaded holes on V8/V6 cars. All R230s use the same plastic front fender liners/splash guards, so if you look at your fender liners along the inner edge near the frame rail you'll see a little cutout that's there for the sway bar to go through. The V12 sway bar mounts are welded to the bottom of the frame rail, centered on that cutout.
You can get a an idea of the location in this video -
Yes, 600 is the same as the 65. The V12 R230 has different front frame rails than the V8 and V6 R230. V8 and V6 cars have the same front frame rails. Since base V6 cars came with sway bars, these frame rails have threaded bolt holes for the front sway bar. V12 frame rails do not have these threaded holes.
The weld-in mount for V12 cars are thick plates with threaded holes that get welded to the bottom surface of the frame rails. They go in basically the same spot as the factory threaded holes on V8/V6 cars. All R230s use the same plastic front fender liners/splash guards, so if you look at your fender liners along the inner edge near the frame rail you'll see a little cutout that's there for the sway bar to go through. The V12 sway bar mounts are welded to the bottom of the frame rail, centered on that cutout.
Jvakos, great insights......I actually purchased my SL500 with ABC issues and went straight to replace the system with coil overs. I have been driving the car for around 6 months with no sway bar and to me, a cruiser not a racer, the car exhibits good stability since the center of gravity is very low....but.....I have noticed an issue which have encouraged me to install a sway bar. The issue become obvious when turning from flat to steep surfaces in an angle (like turning in a corner)....in this condition one of the front wheels will take more than normal the weight and sinks into the fender bay.....the torsion bar (sway) will apply additional down force and prevents this to happen.
I will be doing the sway bar my way... which is pretty much the same as the E430 have it from factory....from behind the subframe. I got the bar from a junkyard and did some bend corrections by heating and bending on specific locations. Will post the results when it is done!
I want to share with this group my custom adaptation of an stock sway bar. Took the sway bar, brackets and links from a 2002 E430. Made a model of the bar configuration in PVC pipe, then heated and bent the stock bar to my required geometry. Shortened and re-oriented the links. The mounts are behind the front subframe, so only needed to partially disconnect the stiffness straps. Also, since the mounting zone has a thin aluminum profile, needed to make U brackets in 3/16 aluminum. The rest was bolting and get it done...Perhaps this is the only R230 with a sway bar mounted from the rear of the subframe..! All it takes is patience and determination!
Total cost: $30 in parts and about 6 hours of my sweat in stages..! The PVC mock-up The saddles and U adapter The modified links and mounting hardware to the lower arm The swing arm
Aren’t sway bars heat treated to spring steel hardness? I would guess that heating up enough to bend may remove that quality of the steel making it non spring steel? And heating and quenching would just make it brittle.
Maybe not though.
CDK, good observation, I actually after install I lifted one side of the car so the driver side wheel was on the ground while the passenger side was in the air, this basically represents the worst case condition. Lowered the vehicle and after rolling back and forth did not notice any changes in front wheel height. Typically Sway bars are made of 4140 alloy which is heated to 1600 f and quench in oil, then tempered to make it more fatigue resistant. I think that I did a re-tempering so hope it maintains the spring like properties! Only time will tell!
Hi Fellas, I finished reading this thread and I can assure you I still don't know if SL needs sway bars.
I know Kent from Mercedes Source and Adam from ND_72 YouTube channel who both recently converted their SL500 and SL55 are doing fine without sway bars.
So when I begin converting my SL from ABC to coilovers, I won't be rushing to purchase sway bars immediately. Normally, I never speed through corners and don't do speedy overtakes, but from time to time I enjoy accelerating on a dry straight and nice road.
01-06-2022, 08:07 AM
thank you for your wisdom 
