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The installation of the front coilovers, has had a few hiccups. The bottom mount was causing the housing to just slightly touch the suspension arm that needed a tiny tolerance massage. The VVK sway bar mounts are top notch and fit like AMG quality parts
Another thing to consider when you replace the ABC pump with a PS unit is the pump attachment bolts. The pumps are mounted in the same position but require 2 - short bolts for the rear and 2 - longer ones for the block/ head front location
I was able to source out 2 each in 12 mm but will do the German thing; 13 mm with length & thread pitch which should help others replacing/converting their suspension
This car is a 500.
In US/Can all MB R230’s are equipped with ABC.
If you read thru this thread you’ll find how I converted the car to tuned adjustable height Coilovers and sway bars
Safety and reliability are now better than ever
This car is a 500.
In US/Can all MB R230’s are equipped with ABC.
If you read thru this thread you’ll find how I converted the car to tuned adjustable height Coilovers and sway bars
Safety and reliability are now better than ever
Thank you! I got it. I have V12 which is a bit more complicated than V8 in terms of all these tandem pumps and sway bars...
Mmm.. the pump is identical between all motors. V8 or 12. The only difference is the mounts. https://www.ebay.com/itm/295181286145
Coilovers should be the also universal a 55K should almost weigh the same
Sway are available at least thru VVK for R230 V12 https://www.vvkusa.com/
Mmm.. the pump is identical between all motors. V8 or 12. The only difference is the mounts. https://www.ebay.com/itm/295181286145
Coilovers should be the also universal a 55K should almost weigh the same
Sway are available at least thru VVK for R230 V12 https://www.vvkusa.com/
Thank you. Yeah I understand that mounts are different. That's what concerns me. I mean how good are those mounts. I guess they had to do a custom mounts or what? Meaning how good are those VVK custom mounts?
I'll try to do a conversion later this year or next year...
VVK is the only source I know of for a V12 R230 front sway bar. Rear bar is the same as for the V8 cars, multiple sources for that.
You can mount a V8 pump in a V12 R230 using factory MB brackets. They're listed for the SL65 Black Series, the G65, and various other non-ABC V12 Mercedes models.
000-466-31-40 front bracket
000-466-32-40 rear bracket
Most V8 pumps (all that I've seen) will have a pulley for a 6 rib belt (V12s use a 7 rib belt). I've seen it posted that a 6 rib belt has been used on a V12 when converting to the V8 PS only pump without issue. I was able to get a pulley from a non-ABC V12 (628-236-00-10), but it took a little while as it had to come from Germany - nearly all V12 Mercedes vehicles sold in the US have ABC, so this pulley isn't stocked here. The only US models that have a V12 and no ABC are the SL65 Black Series and the G65, both are super rare. Also, most V8 pump have a pressed on pulley, so I had to shop around a bit to find a PS only pump that had a bolt-on pulley to work with the 7 rib pulley -
. You could order a PS pump for a G65 or an SL65 Black Series, but $$$$$$.
The stock V12 PS pressure hose will not reach the outlet on the V8 pump. I had a stainless tube fabricated at a local hot rod shop and connected it to the factory hose with a Swagelok 10K PSI compression fitting. I've since seen it posted that you can use MB part #203.466.16.81 to replace the original hose completely, but I haven't had this part in hand yet to confirm. The location of the outlet on the V8 pump when mounted in a V12 R230 is in a very tight spot, so this hose has to be just right.
The last issue is the V8 PS pump inlet. The stock V8 pump has a fitting for the inlet that points straight forward; when mounted in a V12 R230 this points straight into a steel pipe (can't remember now if it's an oil pipe or a coolant pipe). I pulled out the aluminum fitting (it's pressed in) and replaced it with a straight piece of 16mm OD x 11mm ID aluminum pipe, about 40mm long, which I'd taken to a machine shop to have an o-ring slot machined in using the original fitting as a guide for depth and width. Tapped the new tube in using the factory o-ring.
Not too long after I did all this, VVK listed their kit. I don't know the details on this, but as I recall the picture of it looked like they have fabricated brackets and some kind of adapter for the pressure/inlet hose. I've also seen where Gold Element has listed a pump for V12 R230s, but he has said it's just the pump, no brackets, and obviously does not address the issues of the inlet and outlet. I don't know if these kits/pumps have a 6 or 7 rib pulley.
Lastly, early in my research, I found this thread where an owner mounted a V8 pump in an S600 using some easily fabricated spacers. I think this is probably solid enough, but it doesn't support the back of the pump as well as the factory brackets I listed above. Also, the S-class and CL class V12 cars have a lot more room in the area of the pump, so they don't have the inlet and outlet hose problems that you'll face in the SL.
Best Day Ever!
Finally preset spring load on coilovers and then height all round. It’s sitting dead level.
The best part is on a short test drive it is quiet and smooth.
I was able to completely remove all the ABC warnings from the screen. It’s a better car.
5 short drives and the car reacts much better than I thought it would. The sway bars make the handling more accurate and responsive than in Sport mode while still being smooth
I like when I open the hood now it's whisper quiet not like the howl (almost Kompressor like sounding) from the previous ABC pump. The engine gains 10-15 HP and loses 10-12lbs by converting to a factory power steering only pump. Besides super quiet the pump can now run on Dexron III (Type II syn) PS fluid that smells decent at 1/3 $$'$. It was well worth all the time trouble money and when I open the hood, my car no longer smells like hydraulic fluid.
The car is now working extremely well. The handling is more predictable in terms of turn-in and grip. Before, the steering was fairly accurate but you never totally felt the chassis was behaving or sending you feedback like a V8 RWD car of its caliber should. It had teeling of driving a very expensive and complicated hydraulically controlled Deux Cheaveaux. Not that there's anything wrong with that. It would be fair to say the conversion put a little more character back into the car than original
Fortunately I'm no longer tethered to old, deteriorating, stinky hydraulic suspension for which I gladly divorce myself from. I can travel 800 mi a day without worries of a AAA nightmare on lonely highways.
We've just gone on on two day trips of 150 miles each without any issues as well as a weeks worth of my dear wife enjoying her car.
For those who convert to coilovers, you cut the trunk carpet to access the body mounts I found a solution. I used foam to surround the shock body under the carpet and cut a piece of auto carpeting to fit exactly into the factory carpeting. If you didn't know what it was you'd think it was OE.
I'll take phots later
Took a couple of pictures of the carpet mod in the trunk. Takes <5 seconds to access the adjustment dampers and put back together. Looks OEM
FWIW; The Carpet is Alabaster Grey it's not a B&W picture
Last edited by Hary Gahtoe; 04-23-2024 at 07:26 PM.
True, a lot of people won't notice a lack of sway control in most driving situations.
An example of when you will notice it - when you're driving through a curve with some speed, like an interchange ramp between highways. The weight of the car is transferred to the outer wheels, compressing the suspension; then there's a bump along the way. The outer wheel suspension is already compressed, so you only have a small amount of travel available before the suspension bottoms out. In this situation, you can break traction very easily and unexpectedly.
Also - without sway bars, you'll likely dial the adjustable damping on your coilovers up a few notches to have a bit more sway control over momentary side-to-side motions. With sway bars, you can run less damping and still have control over those motions, so you can have a more comfortable ride without that "wallowing/floaty" feeling.
I wouldn't say sway bars are an absolute necessity for these cars - as said, these cars do have a very low center of gravity, so there's less need than a typical passenger car or SUV. But IMO the car will be much better with them, and I'd rather not find myself in an emergency maneuver, avoiding a crash, without them.
Sway bars LIMIT how much the car can lean on it's suspension. Cars will loose traction SOONER versus a car without bars that can lean over more before breaking loose.
Mercedes aren't any lower than any other cars.
Sway bars LIMIT how much the car can lean on it's suspension. Cars will loose traction SOONER versus a car without bars that can lean over more before breaking loose.
First part - correct. Second part - incorrect. If cars had better cornering traction without sway bars, why do all the best handling cars - including race cars - have sway bars?
Mercedes aren't any lower than any other cars.
The SL -is- lower than -most- cars. When I go for a drive, I'm looking up at most other drivers, whether they're in an average sedan or an SUV/truck.
Bruce, I see the point from Joblow....when taking a hard turn the sway bar reduces the ground pressure from the inner tire while increasing the pressure on the outer tire, so, to spin the inner tire would need a lot of torque only available on first gear! In the SL with traction on the rear wheels, and with a whimpy sway bar on that rear axle, the differential of pressure is not significant! Just a little bit of Physics!
Bruce, I see the point from Joblow....when taking a hard turn the sway bar reduces the ground pressure from the inner tire while increasing the pressure on the outer tire, so, to spin the inner tire would need a lot of torque only available on first gear! In the SL with traction on the rear wheels, and with a whimpy sway bar on that rear axle, the differential of pressure is not significant! Just a little bit of Physics!
My two cents..!
I don't think that's right - think about it.
The more the body of a car leans towards the outer side of a curve, the more the weight of the body is transferred to the outer tire. With a sway bar, the car body leans less, so less weight is transferred from the inner tire to the outer tire. Certainly, centrifugal force is still in play, so the outer tire still has more pressure applied than the inner, but a sway bar moderates the pressure differential so that the vehicle weight is more evenly distributed over 4 tire contact patches rather than distributing, say, 75% to the outer tires and only 25% to the inner. A sway bar's function is to make better use of all 4 contact patches. More contact = more traction.
In cars with really poor suspensions you'll see them lean over so badly that they'll actually lift a rear tire off the pavement.
Bruce, glad to re-explain....when in a turn, the Centrifugal force pulls the car in the direction indicated by CF. This makes the car lean since the Center of mass is above the supports (tires). If the car does not have sway bars, the pressure on the leaning side P1 is greater than on the opposite side P2 since the weight of the car is being shifted in the CF direction. So, the spring is more compressed in the P1 side that P2 side, which created a higher pressure on P1 than in P2.
Now, what happens when you place a sway bar? when the tire on P1 is compressed upwards, the opposite end of the sway bar is also compressing the opposite tire upwards, diminishing the opposite end spring downforce, which causes the vehicle to lean less, which is the purpose of the sway bar. So, since the pressure on that tire inner tire P2 is less that with no sway bar, reason for why, with enough power and no posi-traction, that wheel will spin easier!
Whole lot of Physics from owners who didn’t have(or still don’t) have sway bars.
To those who bought a VVK set; My car is still running smoothly and, it handles much more predictably now. It has a slight edge in terms of control over ABC. It gives you a more accurate feeling of initial turn in which helps you set up a better driving level.
In plain English; you can enter a corner at a higher rate with the ability to accelerate out much safer
What I don’t hear is Camber Correction. At the lowered height I need to re adjust somewhere in the-3-4* range. I’ve got a Mechanical Engineer working with me on this
02-19-2024, 06:27 PM
