Yankee_LT

I had a third party look at the my Sl-550 before I purchased it, and he told me all was good. Now I'm back in LA looking for indy shop that just services MBZs that I can trust to have them go over it once more. I read all these horror stories about the ABC system, and I have "Bad Luck" when it comes to "Rag-Top" convertibles (CLK-430 and Z4-M) that stop working because of a bad pump. And yes, I understand that it's the price one pays owning either a BMW or MBZ. One mechanic told me if I wanted a vehicle I could depend on buy a Honda or Toyota. And I almost purchased a Toyota FJ Cruiser because I knew he was correct. Maybe instead of worrying about what might happen I should just enjoy the MBZ that I just bought and cross those other bridges when I come to them.

MBCO

Yank don’t do it. Your car is fine. ABC2 is DIFFERENT and BETTER.

Yankee_LT

Thank you. But like I said above, I'll cross those bridges if and when they come.

MrNotes

Costs vary based on what you buy and how you approach the project. Depending on brand, struts run around $1245 (BC Racing) to $1800 (Strutmasters). Some struts require sway bars, which can add another $1200 or so in parts costs.
The cheapest install approach is to drain the Pentosin, swap out the struts, plug all hoses, and remove the two ABC fuses, w/o sway bars. I do not have first hand experience with this approach, so I can only surmise is the cheapest because it looks the least amount of work.
I hired an installer to do the project, and he drained the Pentosin, swapped out the struts, remove the fuses and all the unneeded ABC components (saves you several hundred pounds of useless weight), and replaced the power steering unit with one that does not have an ABC pump attached. No sway bars. It took 2 x 12 hour days, and cost $2000. My total cost was about $3700 (including the new power steering unit). I equate this to between 1 and 1.5 times the cost of a single typical ABC repair bill. Since my system was already exhibiting failure behavior, it was an easy (and timely) decision.
I have to believe installing sway bars add a not insignificant amount of labor costs, as I was told you need to drop both front and rear subframes to install, plus replace the motor mounts.
Hope this was helpful.

Yankee_LT

Every single comment you people leave for me is VERY valuable. What I'm going to do first is flush out and replace the filter for the ABC system and see where that takes me. Nothing is wrong or giving me issues. It's just some preemptive work I want done since I'm the new owner of this car.

tonylinc

ABC while a complicated system, is also amazing. The car feels solid as hell. I also have a Maserati with their Skyhook suspension and I highly prefer the SL with its ABC. I've never driven an SL that's had ABC removed and swapped to coilovers. Personally, I think the ABC is a good reason to own one of these cars, I love how there is like zero body roll. New fluid and filter every couple of years will go a long ways to fending off failures andrepairs.

Das Geld 2

FCPEuro is your friend, if you plan to keep the car FOREVER.

Yankee_LT

Thank you for that tip.

MBCO

OP, per your search for an Indy mechanic in LA, have you considered posting a request in the other forums, e class Sclass etc.?
Sclass also has ABC system as an option so those owners might have a name.

brucewane

You can't just drain the Pentosin from the ABC system and run the pump dry. It will fail within a few hundred miles due to lack of lubrication.

You can leave the existing ABC/PS pump in place; you just have to re-route the ABC output/pressure line to feed directly back into the ABC reservoir, bypassing the entire ABC hydraulic system. This is known as the "loopback" or "recirculate" method, very easy to do.

Or you can replace the tandem ABC/PS pump with a PS only pump. Easy to do on a V8 car; a fair amount more complicated for the V12, but still entirely doable.

This is true; you do need to drop the subframes to install sway bars and it is recommended to install new motor mounts during this process. This is because the front sway bar fits in between the subframe and the oil pan; if your engine mounts are collapsed, the engine settles down closer to the subframe and you will have clearance problems. But it's not terribly difficult - you don't have to -remove- the subframes from the car completely, you can remove only a few items that will allow the subframes to hang down a few inches, which will allow enough clearance for sway bar installation. There's YouTube videos posted by VVK Suspension showing both procedures.

Obviously, the choice is up to you, but I do recommend sway bars for coilover conversions. It's true that you won't really notice any need in typical driving situations. But you will notice it if you have to push the car hard, like when swerving hard to avoid a collision..... which is exactly not when you want to find out that your car's controllability at its limit is comrpomised.

FATHERTIME

I recently bought a 2007 SL55 with 64k on it and have been trying to get it to optimum condition I so far have about 8k in repairs and some performance parts . As far as the ABC goes an issue I found was that the PO had an AMG shop work on it, they replaced two shocks on the car RR and LF however they put pre 2007 shocks on it so far I had to replace the RR due to upper mount separation thats when I noticed the wrong shocks were installed, there is a huge price difference in pre 2007, Next I will need to replace the LF I guess. I would like to know just what is the difference in these shocks the car seems to handle ok I really like the ABC and I purposely bought a 2007 due to the upgrade of that system but I feel a little cheated as I did not get the real McCoy from the get go.. I'm no stranger to the cost of owning Mercedes SL's I also have 3 R129's 320,500,600 all in top condition. Everything on an AMG is expensive but worth the ride I do my own work but for stuff that needs to be on a rack and have a very good indy for that. Most money I have spent so far is other than ABC

Abebundance

They installed Pre 2007 shocks on your car? but, how? surely that would create a lot of headaches as pre 07's had the connector on top of the suspension, right?

MikeJ65

You obviously can't go the other way, but my guess is that the '06 AMG struts are pretty much the same spring and internals as the '07 AMG. If it is not affecting performance or throwing codes, I would just run with it.

imtheking

Is there a diagram on how to do this ABC pump "loopback"?

Tom Manning

Search ABC R230 loopback for various threads on this.

imtheking

Looks like MercedesSource on YT finally got sick of it all and replaced his ABC


He used Hiro Performance:

https://hiro-performance.com/

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Have you done a conversion? I was going to when I had my 2004 SL500, but traded the car before I had to. From what I have heard, the conversion is never as good as the original ABC system. In addition to coil-overs, you will need to add sway bars and have to drop the front and rear subframes to remove existing ABC lines (rear) and mount the front sway bar. And remember, these cars (R230) are damned heavy for supposedly being Sport-Leicht and preform best with the ABC system functioning correctly. Comments from people who have done the conversion are that you really notice the weight of the car.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

Interesting! I've always respected this guys opinion and information.

I am totally happy with my 2015 SL400 because of the conventional suspension and other technology improvements. However, I always thought the R230 SL500 was an amazing vehicle for it's time. We often overlook the SBC braking system as also being very advanced. Because other issues were appearing (i.e., gas tank baffle failing) and I got a good price on the SL400, I traded before roof hydraulics became a problem.

brucewane

It's true that coilovers are "not as good" as ABC if you're judging strictly on performance. Of course not - an active, computer controlled suspension system is always going to out-perform a conventional passive spring/damper system in terms of providing both excellent comfort and excellent handling on a second-to-second basis. But who amongst us lives in a world where reliability and cost aren't part of the equation?

You can certainly adjust a coilover suspension to provide excellent handling, or an excellent ride - just not not at the same time. Coilovers are adjustable, they're just not active - you can switch between handling and comfort with a couple of clicks of a knob at each corner of the car. Set it softer if you're taking a long road trip, or harder if you're going out for a spirited drive through a lot of twists and turns.

Dropping the subframes isn't nearly as hard as it sounds. You're not removing the subframes entirely, you're disconnecting just enough stuff to let them hang down a bit from the car, just enough to allow the sway bars to be inserted into place. The vast majority of parts connected to the subframes - i.e. all of the suspension, etc - are untouched. It's a lot like replacing motor mounts on a lot of cars - you don't actually remove the engine to do it, you just disconnect what's necessary to allow a few inches of movement and use a jack to support/move as needed.

As far as being heavy and "feeling the weight of the car" - a non-ABC SL350/400 weighs only a few hundred pounds less than an ABC V8/V12 car. About the same difference as having a passenger who's on the larger side along for the ride. I'm sure you could tell the difference in handling if you were taking the car to its limits on a track and directly comparing performance with and without your passenger, but in typical use I doubt it's something that would be noticeable, much less problematic.

For some people the benefits of ABC will be worth the cost of maintaining it. For other people it will not be worth its cost, both in terms of actual $$$$ out-of-pocket, actual $$$$ compared to the current value of the car, and in terms of ongoing worry.

JettaRed

iTrader: (1)

I agree with all you wrote. After watching the video, it seems there are a lot more options than a few years ago. If I still had my R230 I would probably take a second look. Even with the stock, semi-adjustable suspension (and lighter weight) of the R231, I miss the control the ABC offered.

tonylinc

They spent how much money in R&D to bring about the invention of the R230? Billions. The ABC system is just a bunch of parts when put together make it what it is, kinda phenomenal for being 20 years old now. I like the way it drives, rides, corners, etc. so I'm glad I got mine sorted with new accumulators, pulsation dampener and a new hose. Coilovers may be fine, but I like having the car the way they designed it. To me getting coilovers conversion seems akin to removing the engine and slipping a Dodge truck engine in there. To my mind, the allure of the car is having it the way Mercedes made it, and changing it would not be an improvement. I do understand that there are guys out there who come face to face with expensive repairs, and a coilover set can sometimes be the less costly option. I still would not want to buy an R230 that's been converted, though. Everybody's different. My hi pressure hose blew, dealership wanted over $9000 to replace it. Indy shop #1 asked for $5000. Indy shop #2 did the replacement for $2000 including the hose and the same day replaced the 2 accumulators, pulsation dampener and 2 motor mounts and trans mount which I had already bought at cost of about $1000, and they charged another grand to install those parts and new fluid and filter. All done, about $4000 -the car is like new again, and just the way it was designed. If I hadn't waited too long to replace accumulators that hose likely wouldn't have blown, so that was 2 grand. But.... I'm happy, and so is the car. And the new high pressure hose is certainly more reliable now than the one that was 20 years old and 92k miles from new.

tonylinc

If you wind up needing a new hi pressure hose there's way to replace it without doing it the way WIS says to do it (30 hours labor taking the front of the car apart.) They call it the car killer hose because "it takes 30 hours and $9000 to replace". It is just a hydraulic hose. Remove the old one, buy a new one, cut the ends off and install those like pigtails, then thread the new hose where the original one was, and use hydraulic hose splices rated for 10,000 PSI. Some members on here and on Benzworld have done it. It takes a little work but it's better than spending nine thousand dollars! Don't buy any cheap parts, get good ones. The indy shop that did my hose does it this way. They told me "We have done over a dozen R230s this way, not one of them has come back with any problem", every one of those was quoted $9000 at a Benz dealership. While doing that, think about replacing the accumulators, they are pretty cheap parts, considered consumable especially after 15-20 years, and they take the brunt of pressure when you hit a rough spot in the road. Failing accumulators can cause the hose to burst.

George993

All excellent comments and we should be glad that people have choices and can decide by themselves the tradeoffs. I prefer coilovers in R230 (as stated above and having 2 converted cars) and ABC in W221.

Those with successful repairs of the existing ABC hoses - could you share what brand/type of the hose you have used which held up to Pentosin?

I followed the Benzworld posts and bought the hose with the same specs as the one they used. I've put it into Pentosin for testing, inner lining of the hose has melted making the fluid black not green. So naming specific hose which holds up to the pressure and does not dissolve in Pentosin would be greatly appreciated. Just because the replacement hose holds up for some years it does not mean it's good - it could still be dissolving and gumming up the system, not noticed due to the volume of fluid slowing down the visible darkening of the fluid.

mbcoupey

I bought a 2004 sl600 roughly 6 months ago for a low price as the car had every R230 issue known to man. The ABC accumulators failed around 90,000 miles and needed to be replaced as the 3000 psi hydraulic lines would burst. This can be difficult and expensive if those lines do break from a failed accumulator. Most of the air lines fed by the pse pump also crack, as well as the pump itself, which means your door locks no longer work and the trunk can’t be opened without inserting the key. Right now I’m dealing with heating issues as the flaps in the vents aren’t activating. The lcd screens on the instrument cluster sunburn easily and become crusty over time but I fixed those using a $10 piece of polarizing film from Amazon. I repaired the top cylinder myself and then the vario pump started leaking. You will have top issues until the entire thing is replaced. Most of those are from a higher mileage 18 year old car, but are known to happen often in SL’s.

mbcoupey

I took a section of my ABC hose that had burst at the rubber to a local tractor hydraulics place and told them it must hold up to 3000 psi. They replaced the rubber and the hose is still holding months later. I never thought to look for black fluid or brand name, will update you later.