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I posted something similar in the R231 forum, but I see the conversation is more lively here
Coming from an R230 SL65, in which it was one of my dream cars, here's my opinion in regards to some of the things posted here in this thread:
1) Yes, the weight is shockingly heavy. But we all need to realize that (at least in the US market) Mercedes is a luxury brand first, performance brand second. This car was meant to combine 6 vehicles as stated earlier. When you have something like a C63S Cab that can blow the doors off of a R231 in regards to performance, design, luxury, etc, this new SL needed to wear many hats. Those hats include the luxury buyer desire to want "stuff". Want the latest tech? That's stuff. Want the latest 5-star crash ratings from 48 different angles (or however many they're trying to infinitely predict)? That's stuff. And guess what, "stuff" is heavy. So I attribute the surprising weight increase to "stuff". All vehicles, will get heavier in the future. Always have and will continue. The days of a sub-3000 lb car are gone; and it was gone more than a decade ago.
2) The R231 appears to be a great a car, although I've never driven one. The problem with it was the exterior design. It was hideous. As for the interior, unfortunately the SL was caught in a weird time in Mercedes design. The hard-angled 08-14ish designs did not mesh well with the future softer luxurious designs of the 15+ models being released (W205, W222, etc). You can see how MB tried to mesh the designs together with the mid-cycle refreshes of the W212, CLS, etc - a rounded front bumper tacked onto a squared off body. They tried to make it work and hide it, but the obvious design differences were there. At least, they knew those vehicles were being replaced soon so they got by. The SL was one of those that they did a refresh (especially to the front end), but you can tell that the design is not cohesive at all between the front end, side profile, and rear end. Another flaw though was the R231 interior, as it needed a drastic refresh (such as what they did on the W204), but they weren't either willing to make the investment or there was some other issue that they decided to leave the interior with the past design language, making it significantly look out of place from anything in 2015-18 that matched the latest A, C, E, S, or GT offerings.
3) In regards to ABC, we don't know what it truly cost Mercedes, especially in the early cars. The amount of warranty work that was paid out was probably significant. At the same time, we all know it only takes one bad experience to turn off a customer for at least 1 generation of vehicle. ABC was great, but what did it truly cost, given how many issues and downed cars the systems caused?
So in the end, to consolidate a line of convertibles and sell a modern car, I think MB has put together a fantastic offering. I love it. Does it mean to me what my R230 V12 AMG meant? No, but that's on me. And we all need to accept that the future will bring different things, and there are consequences of wanting "more" (like the weight). I hope this new SL does well, because I personally think it appears to be a fantastic vehicle.
I've read two or three, but now we're up to the SL replacing 6 cars? Come on man, this is absurd and not true at all. The SL has never been substitute for the S Coupe models, ever. It isn't replacing any other Mercedes than the AMG GT roadster. I have no idea what 6 cars this could possibly be replacing.
I've read two or three, but now we're up to the SL replacing 6 cars? Come on man, this is absurd and not true at all. The SL has never been substitute for the S Coupe models, ever. It isn't replacing any other Mercedes than the AMG GT roadster. I have no idea what 6 cars this could possibly be replacing.
M
He read that the SL will be one of two convertibles moving forward from the prior 6 models. That is correct…
The SL takes the place of 3 models: the GT roadster directly, the S-Class cab indirectly as it is the only high end convertible in the line up.
The SLC just went away and and C&E Class cab will be merged…
He read that the SL will be one of two convertibles moving forward from the prior 6 models. That is correct…
The SL takes the place of 3 models: the GT roadster directly, the S-Class cab indirectly as it is the only high end convertible in the line up.
The SLC just went away and and C&E Class cab will be merged…
That is not "replacing" 6 models though. The CLE (really just another CLK) is taking the place of the C and E models. The SLK has no direct successor, the SL surely isn't it. The SL isn't a replacement for the S models either, these are all different cars with different focus. This SL is directly replacing the AMG GT Roadster. It's not "replacing" 6 models.
I've read two or three, but now we're up to the SL replacing 6 cars? Come on man, this is absurd and not true at all. The SL has never been substitute for the S Coupe models, ever. It isn't replacing any other Mercedes than the AMG GT roadster. I have no idea what 6 cars this could possibly be replacing.
M
The R232 SL replaces the A217 S cabriolet, R231 SL, R172 SLC/SLK, C190 AMG GT roadster, and A205 C63 cabriolet (at least until the CLE or whatever it’s called comes out). It needs vestigial rear seats to appease the C and S cabriolet buyers. It needs to be sporty to appease the AMG GT roadster and C63 cabriolet buyers. It needs to have comfortable seats and suspension to appease S cabriolet and SL buyers. It needs tight sporty seats to appease AMG GT roadster and C63 cabriolet buyers.
C300 and C43 coupe and cabriolet buyers could be steered to the E300 and E53 (C238/A238) coupes and cabs, but the E coupe/cab has no E63 version.
C63 coupe and cab buyers now have to choose between the R232 SL roadster and C190 AMG GT coupe.
S coupe (and CL) owners/buyers are left without a good substitute, but the R232 SL is the closest thing for those who want a two door luxury car.
I've read two or three, but now we're up to the SL replacing 6 cars? Come on man, this is absurd and not true at all. The SL has never been substitute for the S Coupe models, ever. It isn't replacing any other Mercedes than the AMG GT roadster. I have no idea what 6 cars this could possibly be replacing.
M
I didn't write this the best. What I meant to say was the consolidation of cars that MB is doing in their convertible lineup, not necessarily every car converting into an SL.
At the end of the day, a convertible is a very low seller when compared to the current market of SUV's (in the US at least). If it wasn't for the desire of sedans and wagons across other parts of the world, Daimler would probably get out of the sedan business as well, just as other automakers have. I think Germany is the only other country in the world that truly does love having their cabriolets.
The R232 SL replaces the A217 S cabriolet, R231 SL, R172 SLC/SLK, C190 AMG GT roadster, and A205 C63 cabriolet (at least until the CLE or whatever it’s called comes out). It needs vestigial rear seats to appease the C and S cabriolet buyers. It needs to be sporty to appease the AMG GT roadster and C63 cabriolet buyers. It needs to have comfortable seats and suspension to appease S cabriolet and SL buyers. It needs tight sporty seats to appease AMG GT roadster and C63 cabriolet buyers.
C300 and C43 coupe and cabriolet buyers could be steered to the E300 and E53 (C238/A238) coupes and cabs, but the E coupe/cab has no E63 version.
C63 coupe and cab buyers now have to choose between the R232 SL roadster and C190 AMG GT coupe.
S coupe (and CL) owners/buyers are left without a good substitute, but the R232 SL is the closest thing for those who want a two door luxury car.
No it doesn't. There is no press release or anything that has ever said this. I don't get why this is even being argued here. This SL can't seat 4 people for more than a few mins at best, that isn't a true replacement for the S Cabriolet. Secondly the C and E Cabriolets are still on sale, so the SL isn't replacing them, the CLE will do that when the C and E Cabriolets are discontinued, they aren't yet. The cars you're talking about it replacing are still on sale, C and E cabriolets. The C63 Cabriolet, as was all 2-door C-Class models was to remain in production for the 2022 MY until whatever happened with it's V8. That just happened. I get that the SL is replacement for the AMG GT Roadster, but that's where it really stops. It isn't replacing a big 4-seat Cabrio like the S, the C and E Cabs are still on sale, and I know what the SL has to do concerning the AMG GT buyers. Has nothing to do with the C, E, S cabriolets. You even listed the new SL replacing the old SL, uh isn't that what every single car does when the same model gets redesigned? Replaces the previous car of the same name? Totally pointless even mentioning that. Just because the SL is what is left in the upper space after the S Cabrio/Coupe goes away doesn't mean it's a suitable replacement. A true 4-seat Maybach Cabriolet is under study to actually replace the S Coupe/Cabrio models, per a CAR magazine piece with one of Mercedes' execs.
I didn't write this the best. What I meant to say was the consolidation of cars that MB is doing in their convertible lineup, not necessarily every car converting into an SL.
At the end of the day, a convertible is a very low seller when compared to the current market of SUV's (in the US at least). If it wasn't for the desire of sedans and wagons across other parts of the world, Daimler would probably get out of the sedan business as well, just as other automakers have. I think Germany is the only other country in the world that truly does love having their cabriolets.
Yeah they are, but they are not consolidating 6 cars. They will still have the C, E and new SL convertibles for the 2022 model year.
No it doesn't. There is no press release or anything that has ever said this. I don't get why this is even being argued here. This SL can't seat 4 people for more than a few mins at best, that isn't a true replacement for the S Cabriolet. Secondly the C and E Cabriolets are still on sale, so the SL isn't replacing them, the CLE will do that when the C and E Cabriolets are discontinued, they aren't yet. The cars you're talking about it replacing are still on sale, C and E cabriolets. The C63 Cabriolet, as was all 2-door C-Class models was to remain in production for the 2022 MY until whatever happened with it's V8. That just happened. I get that the SL is replacement for the AMG GT Roadster, but that's where it really stops. It isn't replacing a big 4-seat Cabrio like the S, the C and E Cabs are still on sale, and I know what the SL has to do concerning the AMG GT buyers. Has nothing to do with the C, E, S cabriolets. You even listed the new SL replacing the old SL, uh isn't that what every single car does when the same model gets redesigned? Replaces the previous car of the same name? Totally pointless even mentioning that. Just because the SL is what is left in the upper space after the S Cabrio/Coupe goes away doesn't mean it's a suitable replacement. A true 4-seat Maybach Cabriolet is under study to actually replace the S Coupe/Cabrio models, per a CAR magazine piece with one of Mercedes' execs.
M
I think we will have to disagree on this. Anybody coming off a S-Class cab lease or ownership, wether its a 560 or 63 will be re-directed to the new SL by MB and dealerships. It will be a great fit as well. Virtually nobody is using the rear seat anyway in the coupes/cabs anyway and price point and interior is a fit. There is simply no other car they can send these people to... Hence indirect replacement.
And a new standalone Maybach coupe/cab is vaporware at best. Highly unlikely, several years out and a $300-400k price tag.
I think we will have to disagree on this. Anybody coming off a S-Class cab lease or ownership, wether its a 560 or 63 will be re-directed to the new SL by MB and dealerships. It will be a great fit as well. Virtually nobody is using the rear seat anyway in the coupes/cabs anyway and price point and interior is a fit. There is simply no other car they can send these people to... Hence indirect replacement.
And a new standalone Maybach coupe/cab is vaporware at best. Highly unlikely, several years out and a $300-400k price tag.
Yeah because you're confusing what is available vs what is an actual a suitable replacement. A SL was never a substitute for a S-Class 2-door of any kind. It's basically a 2-seat car the S Cabrio's rear seats were more functional that the R232's rear seats will ever be. Of course a dealer is going to steer you to a SL, or an SUV or whatever they have around, that doesn't make it a true replacement for whatever the person is driving at the moment. Alternative vs replacement IMO.
Yeah because you're confusing what is available vs what is an actual a suitable replacement. A SL was never a substitute for a S-Class 2-door of any kind. It's basically a 2-seat car the S Cabrio's rear seats were more functional that the R232's rear seats will ever be. Of course a dealer is going to steer you to a SL, or an SUV or whatever they have around, that doesn't make it a true replacement for whatever the person is driving at the moment. Alternative vs replacement IMO.
M
No confusion. One equals the other. The S-Class coupe/cab is dead. This by default makes it the replacement. This will be the message coming directly from Mercedes, not just the dealers...
No confusion. One equals the other. The S-Class coupe/cab is dead. This by default makes it the replacement. This will be the message coming directly from Mercedes, not just the dealers...
That doesn't make it accurate is my point. It's a sales argument, not a product one.
That doesn't make it accurate is my point. It's a sales argument, not a product one.
M
No issue here. That's why I called it an indirect instead of direct replacement as the S-Class coupe/cab is retired as a product line, not just the model. Details are irrelevant...
No issue here. That's why I called it an indirect instead of direct replacement as the S-Class coupe/cab is retired as a product line, not just the model. Details are irrelevant...
I guess if you approach it like a salesman anything can be a replacement for anything.
Rear caliper placement is interesting. Looks bigger too (4 piston?) Must of had to make room for some suspension/steering component. I doubt it’s a CG thing…
I noticed that as well, including the fact that they seem to have changed the caliper to have a closer-matching shape when compared to the front. Perhaps the engineers and designers also hated the look of the last gen caliper....
(probably works great, but still we want it to look pretty!)
I noticed that as well, including the fact that they seem to have changed the caliper to have a closer-matching shape when compared to the front. Perhaps the engineers and designers also hated the look of the last gen caliper....
(probably works great, but still we want it to look pretty!)
Looking at it closer…
It looks like the same (TRW) sliding pin caliper design with electric parking brake. But it’s definitely appears longer. Larger brake pads and maybe two smaller pistons instead of the current design with one large piston? (Hopefully). There’s a lot of new cars out there, and I probably missed it somewhere, but I haven’t seen any other cars with that setup. (SRT Mopars have that rear brake position but not e parking brake), Wonder if MB switched suppliers or they completely redesigned that rear brake specifically for that chassis? It still looks like it takes the 360mm rotors.
Last edited by crconsulting; 11-06-2021 at 03:39 PM.
Looking at it closer…
It looks like the same (TRW) sliding pin caliper design with electric parking brake. But it’s definitely appears longer. Larger brake pads and maybe two smaller pistons instead of the current design with one large piston? (Hopefully). There’s a lot of new cars out there, and I probably missed it somewhere, but I haven’t seen any other cars with that setup. Wonder if MB switched suppliers or they completely redesigned that rear brake specifically for that chassis? It still looks like it takes the 360mm rotors.
For reference, those are also 21” wheels. So the rotors look a bit larger.
High time. MB has been using the same rotors in all their models (besides the BS/Pro as mentioned) for the last 10 years or so.
For reference, those are also 21” wheels. So the rotors look a bit larger.
High time. MB has been using the same rotors in all their models (besides the BS/Pro as mentioned) for the last 10 years or so.
I hope you're right, but I think we may be disappointed
Dude, what is the point of the new 2023 Merc SL? What an identity crisis! Unnecessary redo, just kill off the SL class...or call it something else. I have an idea but I'll refrain.
Dude, what is the point of the new 2023 Merc SL? What an identity crisis! Unnecessary redo, just kill off the SL class...or call it something else. I have an idea but I'll refrain.
If you read just about any review so far, the point is that the SL has come back to what it should have been in the first place. Haven't read glowing SL reviews like this for decades...
If you read just about any review so far, the point is that the SL has come back to what it should have been in the first place. Haven't read glowing SL reviews like this for decades...
Disclaimer: This is not directed at you, Wolfman and I'm also not some diehard R231 guy.
In response to these reviews you mentioned, if the SL is to "come back to what it should have been in the first place," it should've been a smaller, lighter, n/a inline 6er, with an optional hard top roof, which it obviously isn't. Ok, I can accept it having a turbo. Said argument also would presume that Merc's 59 years of production of the SL was in vain as it was never "what it should have been," a "gullwing" era SL that was produced for a mere 9 years. Moreover, even these 1st gen SLs had optional hard tops so not sure about these soft top arguments. The 59 years of production established the SL as a solid and luxurious roadster with a hard top option (and later a retractable hard top) for people to drive spiritly and enjoy a scenic drive with a secure roof. It was basically a S class convertible.
There was a reason for me buying a R231 SL (I'm in my late 40s BTW) , but I have no reason to ever buy this R232 "SL". Why? If I had $125K (base price for a SL53) to spend on a fast, convertible car, then 100% I would buy the better handling, better driving, better interior, better looking, better build, better practically everything, a new Porsche 992 (911) Cab, which may be even better priced at $121K.
My ultimate point is, just call it what it really is: an AMG GT Cab., not a SL. IMHO, the SL as we know it is dead.
11-02-2021, 06:16 PM
