SL2003driver

WOW, you have a problem i bet your old lady never gets to be right about anything either because you are so smart i bet you wont be married much longer. but you will be driving a vette

novabenz

c2jones = the only person who knows everything about EVERYTHING!

c2jones

The two biggest juveniles in the whole forum have things to say about others. What a farce. Look at their postings; the content, the delinquency, the petty (boyish) graphics and antics...everything. Overgrown babies at best. One claims the thread sucked, yet never left, and stated others were acting like 12 year olds - but just look at this whelping pathetic person. Staying around to post no substance content - simply to release inner insecurity frustrations and boost their underdeveloped, infantile ego with their petty utterances. Again, pathetic and very confirming of them.

novabenz

i sooooo enjoy reading your responses, c2!
so insightful!
it's people like you who make everyone understand why someone like yourself should always be treated like the gift from God that they truly are.
get over it - we are here, on purpose, to make you freak out.
so keep on responding, it's only loading the cannon for all of us who want to get you (which isn't very hard to do).

SL2003driver

he is kind of easy.

AMGFREAK

Well looks like I started some fires.... sorry bout that. Looks like I will stick with MBZ.. Chevy just dosent have the quality I am looking for and I cant see myself buying a ZR1 cause I think that I will be bored in a short time with it. SO with all that said... its either a SL65 or CL65... I will keep you all updated and let you know what I choose and of course I will post pics, cause I am not dealing with being called a liar....

c2jones

You did not start any fires. Loyalist biases and unfair attacks did that. On the comparison between the two cars you cited, its actually been universally accepted (within the initial set of response postings way back when) that the two are not within the same market category. One is a heavy luxury GT and the other is a genuine supercar. Since then, the fixed roof SL65 Black Series has come into the mix (as a better comparison, though naturally it costs over twice that of ZR1) and of course, initial and overall build quality (reliability, fit and finish), progress reports, etc., (of the manufactures in general) have all taken center stage. Then of course, passer-by's chimed in on brand imagery, vanity - what their car does for onlookers, the GTR debate and some, sadly, offered their petty antics.

Besides, with a user name like "AMGFREAK," do you really suppose others felt you had a true, sincere interest in ZR1, or that you would not "stick with MBZ"? A "freak" is usually rather set in their own direction, thus the definition.

If that's your mindset, why the original inquiry in the first place? Did these perceptions just come to you? I suspect that you merely inquired about the ZR1 as an impulsive thing on the moment, nothing more. And with an '05 E and an ML, you may have had some mechanical gremlins, so your quality standards are relative. (Like I said, the thread successively became not about your question anyway, but about those other factors I cited.)

Finally, with regard to your signature, is it possible that you may have left some things out? You did not mention what brand of tire you had on both cars, or whether you have air or nitrogen in those tires...

Best of luck with your new car.

novabenz

Great choice with the Mercedes Benz!!
Yes - the Chevy/GM quality, no matter what the price, will never match that of the Germans.
And yes, you most likely would become bored with the ZR1, unless you are bringing it around die-hard Corvette fanatics.
You can't go wrong with either the SL or the CL, best of luck with your decision.

I had to post this just to make sure c2 didn't get the last word.....

c32used

I been monitoring this thread for weeks now and amazed by all the arguing between members...I have to say OP maybe it wasn't a good idea going on here to compare those two totally different purpose cars...there are a variety of different thoughts on this but at the end it only matters what you are really looking for....ZR1(Speed and performance) or SL65(speed(not ZR1), performance(not ZR1), and comforts) GL on your choice...

SL2003driver

Good luck either the SL65 or CL65 is a "real" super car not a poser like the vette.

NSM

My tuned SL65 is a really super car, but it will never be a supercar. I have no illusions about that.

AMGFREAK

First I changed my signature.... For what ever reason it was something else to B%#$H about... Second I am sorry that I even posted this topic. It was just a simple question of "which would you choose". It turned into something with far to much drama, negativity (which there is a lot of on here). I don't do that, too much wasted energy... I have more productive and positive things to do than sit and read through all that BS. And third, to the small handful of people on this forum that are nice, positive and gave good feedback THANKS! But next time I think that I will just go with what I want and not ask for any opinions and keep the questions to myself. Lesson Learned.

jherbias

Please explain how you would get bored of a ZR1 over an SL65.

I can understand how a Ferrari is a supercar and the reasons why a ZR1 isn't considered one. But I wouldn't consider a SL65 or CL65 a supercar either since they look nearly the same as their 550 counterparts.

Finally, not addressed to OP, but how is the Corvette a poser car, as opposed to a hardtop convertible?

AMGFREAK

I just don't think that I would want to drive it everyday (ZR1). I want some something that I WANT to drive everyday (SL65/CL65) I will not post on this topic anymore. I've moved on.

c2jones

Well said. Honest and fair. Refreshing (for a change).

Great point. I was wondering about this myself. The former requires much more interaction with the driver than the latter.

Not sure I follow here. ZR1 is certainly considered a supercar by everyone in the major automotive journalism circles. It takes quite a pricey Ferrari to begin to match ZR1 (like Enzo and 599) and the supercar components for ZR1 are just as pronounced (if not more so) as those on Ferraris. For instance, the standard brakes on ZR1 come as only a $20K option on 599. (The ONLY car that matches ZR1's brakes standard is Veyron.) There are other components exclusive to ZR1 as well. On the track, few if any Ferraris will match ZR1.

Precisely. One must truly consider the source of the inquiry.

c2jones

Just to finalize things with German, and not leave anything hanging, I will present some final commentary on the topic we were discussing. Perhaps we can end this circular discussion. Actually, as I have repeatedly said, I am a MBCA longtime member. I am considering the list for ZR1. I can appreciate many cars. I see no reason to bash one over another, as all makers have their target market, and thus I take exception to unfair quality labels being attached, thus my quest for counter-balance here. That's all.

Not at all. Half quote? I said earlier that, “The article notes that the authors thought the Mercedes’ seats to be more comfortable for the long haul and that they wished Draxlmaier had been there from the ground up.” In your earlier post you said reviewers had “repeatedly” said the STS-V’s interior was substandard. You then cited R&T, Car and Driver and Motor Trend. The first two reviews (in addition to Autoweek’s) generously complimented the STS-V’s interior with no caveats whatsoever. Motor Trend said positive and slightly negative things about the interiors of BOTH cars. It is no wonder you cling to the one MT review so tenaciously. It’s the best you’ve got since you apparently don’t know what the word “repeatedly” means. Actually, I think you do but you were, again, just hoping for a gullible audience, something you imply of the GM adherents.

This is similar to where you posted (I deem without advanced insight there) that Draxlmaier was only supplying the leather when it turns out they were also supplying finished components. Nice to see you’ve now corrected that research by proclamation bit to “only supplies certain pieces.”

Again, opinions galore. People are not entitled to their opinion, just yours which is valid above all. And actually, Buick has great ratings; both domestically and internationally.

The way in which you have categorized the Corvette and its buyer group is remarkably similar to the way a hardcore racist seeks to uplift himself by putting down others. Elevation by default of others.

Careful with the unnecessary condescension; I can do that, too. Actually, I can easily state that you don’t know what you’re talking about and you just need to get some facts. Period. You say, “The S-Class was a brand new model for 2007 yet it placed ahead of every other car in the survey.” In actuality, the all-new S-Class was in a statistical tie with Audi’s aged and soon-to-be-replaced A8. So the best MB could do with their all-new S-Class was a statistical tie with a 5-year-old Audi.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2007088

Give me that speech about half-quotes again. That was a great speech. I really liked it.

You’re so proud, “and get this.....SL. BOOM,” that the SL came in first for 2007? I should research facts before posting? OK. How about this, the Corvette won its category in the IQS study in 2001 and 2002.

http://www.carfax.com/DP_Rpt_Links/J...nners.cfm#2001
http://www.carfax.com/DP_Rpt_Links/J...nners.cfm#2002

So I guess the track isn’t the only place Mercedes’ cars are playing catch up.

In 2006 the Corvette tied for third with guess which car…The SL.

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/new...spx?ID=2006082

Is it now that you're granting the JD Power survey an ample barometer of quality? By said barometer it’s nice to know that Mercedes is finally catching up to Corvette though it apparently still has trouble with old Audis. Are you now going to tell me that the study is now suddenly invalid, irrelevant, tainted or skewed in some way right?

JD Power’s equally informative Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APPEAL) study was won by the Corvette for five straight years from 1997 – 2001. (That's enough research on the facts, or do you want me to list the Strategic Vision awards as well?)

Like any good automotive loyalist, it’s always easier to belittle information when it doesn’t prove your point. So here’s the deal with the MSRC suspension. It was jointly developed by GM/Delphi and is used in Ferrari’s and Audi’s cars with GM/Delphi’s permission. It was selected by both Ferrari and Audi because it is simply better than anything else out there. It can adjust the vehicle's suspension throughout its entire range for every inch of forward travel the vehicle makes at 60mph. It is small wonder that Automobile Magazine named it Technology of The Year in 2003 and it also earned the prestigious PACE (Premier Automotive Suppliers' Contribution to Excellence) award for its significance. For automotive technology, a PACE award is the automotive technology equivalent of the Nobel prize.

As Road and Track’s stunned editor Kim Reynolds said of the technology “this is an engineering advance comparable with the starter motor and independent suspension ..." Similarly awed, Motor Trend’s Jack Keebler said in 2002, “MagneRide is one of the best automotive technologies I've seen in a decade. It's an important breakthrough, and I consider it on par with stability control."

You did not know this (obviously) and, probably have an inability to even digest as much.

Perhaps not directly from Corvette to MB, but from GM certainly. As has been reported in numerous publications last year both BMW and Mercedes are licensing GM’s hybrid technology:

http://www.businessweek.com/autos/co...an%3E+features

As Businessweek aptly put it, “But for the conditions of a joint technology agreement among the companies, each vehicle might have a badge on its side-panel that says "GM Inside.’'

Yup. That "junky" GM.

Try to keep your points straight Hoss. In an earlier post you said that you freely admitted that MB’s cars in an earlier period were awful but that they had turned the corner. But above you just said that previous generation Corvettes are junk but Benzes were not. I think your hood’s too tight. We all get your blinding hatred for the Corvette and its buyers. Believe me, we do, unfair or not.

Much like you shouldn’t have to spend a half million dollars on an SLR to match a $100K Corvette - street or track. To many, that’s lame. Its a preference and what one personally desires in a car. Again, what's important to you (interior euphoria) is not so essential to everyone, especially in a performance oriented supercar.

Much like what I’ve been saying that Car and Driver described the interior of the all-new C-Class as cheap especially when compared to a comparable Cadillac. Here’s the thing though, unlike your claims (demonstrably false) that there are “repeated” digs against the STS-V’s interior, I CAN find repeated knocks on MB’s recent offerings which negates your statement: “The only Benz that still has an issue with this is the current CLK. The C, CLS, S, CL, SL, E and others have all been either redesigned or facelifted since Mercedes' darkest years.”

Really? Of the all-new C-Class Car and Driver had this to say: “Aside from the electronics, the rest of the interior fails to impress. Much of it is made up of shiny, hard plastic that is low-rent enough to suggest that maybe it was Chrysler that divorced Mercedes.”

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...st+page-2.html

The automotive loyalist becomes even feebler. “The CLS has a better interior… (I) forgot to post the entire quote.” Funny how when Car and Driver says, “The whole package is tasteful, roomy, and arguably the most comfortable in this threesome, thanks to the relatively creamy ride and best control layout of the bunch,” it doesn’t count but if Motor Trend says anything that even remotely supports your view it is the only thing you can bring yourself to say. Well, at least you’re consistent.

We've been through all this German. Its about market segments and an appeal to core buyers of a certain area. Could this really escape you so badly? Performance, like interior finery, costs money and GM’s priority with the Corvette and its budget is performance. As a result, no Porsche or Audi within twice the price of any Corvette can touch one street or track. This might have been clear to you had you simply amended your above statement to read “awesome second rate performance.” Porsche and Audi choose to spend their money on things other than strict performance. That’s not wrong, just not what some buyers are looking for in their performance cars.

ZR1 is a true supercar. It fits the criteria abundantly. The car intention has little interest in impressing the luxury cabin obsessive types in its performance focused objective. ZR1 has already acquired $1M in auctions and is, and will remain, a strong collectible. Your adamant chastising of Corvette is far more a reflection upon you, than any legitimate detraction from ZR1 and its aims and purposes.

Again, I just wanted to portray some balance. Nothing more. My wife is getting a new SL and I may have an SL and a refaced CLS myself. If MB is improving its reliability, that would be fine by me. But I also admire and marvel Corvettes; Z06 and ZR1 especially, for the astonishing presence the icon is making. I am looking to get on the ZR1 list. This car has very redeeming qualities and a specialty market worthy of appreciation. Any true (unbiased and balanced) automotive enthusiast, would naturally feel the same.

jl88

having the last word is important, right?

SL2003driver

Just one thing to consider when you get on the zr1 list. a bud at the gym has a zo6 and he says with normal use he has to put new tires on this bad boy every 5K miles at a cost of around $2000.

c2jones

Honest question. (Really.) Why do you usually re-quote the entire posting when you reply? So unnecessary. Could you not just use the Reply option or simply quote the specific item you are referencing? Just curious. No jab intended here, just a simple question.

I think you already brought that up.

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....7&postcount=99

I will certainly look into this. (Some actual content by you for change. That's better.)

Some other great postings for balanced perspective... (amongst many).

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....6&postcount=90

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....2&postcount=65

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....8&postcount=97

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....3&postcount=85

mbny

Although I like the Corvette, I absolutely love the looks of the SL. So sexy!

jherbias

I don't consider the ZR1 a supercar because it looks like the base C6 aside from a different hood and some other hood panels (sorry I haven't really seen pictures of the ZR1). Same thing w/ the SL55, SL65 etc., and even the Porsche GT2. At least with Ferrari, each model looks completely different. It has all the underpinnings of a supercar, but the exterior doesn't match IMO what a supercar should be. That, or it doesn't have 200K price tag; I don't know.

That said, I still would take a Z06 over a ZR1 just because it uses the same 7.0 L V8 as the C6R.

c2jones

Okay, but you will admit that these are your own private interpretations though. By definition, there is no association with what is or what is not a supercar strictly based upon what visual differential it shares or does not share with "base" models of its linage.

I assure you, as you acknowledge with the "underpinnings" of a supercar, the ZR1 has many distinct differences, especially in supercar construction and supercar components. Likewise, it would be unfair to categorize SL65 Black Series as just another SL just because it shares visual cues. Black Series has fixed carbonfiber paneling (like ZR1 and other supercars) and is not to be mistaken as an ordinary SL65, just as ZR1 should not be mistaken as a "base C6."

Some exterior pictures for you:

http://www.dieselstation.com/manufac...-pictures.html

Some framework pictures for you:

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/detro...isplay/584104/

However, 430 (with Scuderia) and Enzo (with FXX), and others, have stretched out base models for elevated performance categorization. The latter was a supercar to begin with, yet further supercar status was sought and achieved.

If $200K pricing dictated supercar status, there would be some sure true supercars off the list for your reason. (GTR, Ford GT, Acura NSX replacement, and some others.) I would think those "underpinnings" more of the criteria than pricing. When you say "I don't know..." this would seem to suggest that you admit some internal perceptions on your part, respectfully. Perhaps you'll see this differently one day.

HRE

I'd go with the 65 hands down. With the 65 you have both a luxury car and a beast...with the ZR1 you only have the beast...I had the same questions not long ago but you see the direction I went...

c2jones

ZR1 is far more refined than one might expect. Nevertheless, it is a true supercar. If one must have a luxury car within the same car that serves as a supercar one is getting into stratosphere pricing. To have ZR1 type of supercar performance with a luxury car feel, one needs SLR or Veyron. But look at the pricing there.

If one is going to go with the 65 for your reasons, then one could also consider getting two cars for the price of one. A ZR1 and a preowned 65 or 55. Then you have both ends covered without compromising either.

Some notable comments on that exact notion from earlier in this thread:

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....4&postcount=18

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....7&postcount=21

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....42&postcount=9

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....9&postcount=11

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....1&postcount=19

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....2&postcount=35

https://mbworld.org/forums/showpost....3&postcount=85

novabenz