c2jones

Nova,

You seem obsessed with those off-topic sexual character areas... seems there is a translation to be found. Where there is smoke there is fire. You just cannot think of anything other than this kind of thing. Hmm. Very telling of you. You truly have a problem, sir. Honestly.

c2jones

Another notable item of reference regarding interior updating, this from Car and Driver's road test of the all-new CTS, "Possibly the most dramatic improvement to the CTS is the upscale and coherently flowing interior, complete with classy materials and top-notch fit and finish. Cadillac's least-expensive car certainly doesn't feel that way, and it upstages the '08 Mercedes C-class."

Food for thought.

MSL01

I don't recall signing a consent form for the use of my photo in a public forum....

SL2003driver

I think you nailed it, kind of like he is writing a movie script for the role of a bitter old queen. wonder if his wife knows he is a closet queen???

c2jones

Most respectfully, of course, I should feel truly enhanced and ultimately validated with my line of reasoning in this thread.

After all, despite often embattled and outnumbered, despite several showing their disparateness by constantly going with everything under the sun, and despite this thread being hijacked by a handful of escapees from their local juvenile detention center throwing in their childish, non-substitutive two-bit utterances around, the fact is, now, and clearly reflective here, the only one on-topic and standing the test of time, is me.

The substance and the facts rang clear.

Conversely, the only other regulars left here are mere vermin making due with table scraps with nothing of merit to say - its so obvious that its pathetic. Notably, only those so mentally challenged with inferiority complexes as witnessed in the recent postings above, resort to making immature, erroneous sexual orientation remarks about those they feel threatened by intellectually. If someone writes and represents themselves in a skilled manner, these types feel threatened and reveal their inner insecurities by resorting to childish delinquent spewing. Its grippingly clear.

Equally telling, some of them accuse me of wanting the last word, yet they do exactly what they accuse me of, and with absolutely NOTHING to say in the process. Further, that is on top of the fact they they said the thread sucked and yet stayed on simply because their fragile ego could not bear going away. All they do is cast silly, disparate comments displaying only petty immature, romper-room antics. Weak. Really weak. If that isn't clear confirmation, nothing is.

The last of the people here that offered some resemblance of an actual productive discussion, are long since gone like dust in the wind. Substance and stamina has a way of doing that, I must say.

As far as the base point: Its clear that while the ZR1 and the SL65 are NOT in the same target market dynamic, attempts by SL to join the supercar arena are clear with the SL65 Black Series and its ZR1 like carbonfiber fixed roof and panels. (Perhaps it won't struggle in sales as SLR surely has.) While ZR1 is already showing its collectible, novelty factor, time will tell if Black Series can do also this.

What's clear, is that ZR1 shares (per option) that same interior vendor as MB and Maybach, Veyron and others, with the same appointments, and still does so well beneath the price of the 65's. The reaching fit and finish superiority angle did not hold up to diligent scrutiny. Balance - that's all that was lobbied for here, and I will say, rather successfully, respectfully. This in no way alters the fact that I am a longtime member of this forum and a strong member of MBCA and will have my share of MB's in the future. Its just that I don't have any blind loyalty to any brand and can appreciate them all as has been fully stated throughout this very thread. In this case, I can admire ZR1 for what its design and purpose is, and that's plentiful and clear.

For all those looking upon this thread by archive, a thorough review of this entire thread says it all. (One cannot just come in and read a post or two and not expect to be missing the overall substance. Johnny-come-lately folks tend to do that. Not always, though.)

All things in balance and moderation. I think that was accomplished here.

Sometimes, ironically, fact is stranger than fiction. While I am as straight and as stable as they come, in fact I am a producer in the film business and I have long contemplated creating a reality series (heck, everyone else is doing this now - that's where the ratings are) that captures the diverse personalities and characters of online forums, blogs, chatrooms, etc.

There is a unique dynamic that might very well sell if one can deduce a way to cast this into a TV-friendly format. There will be heroes and there will be goats. (The goats will be easy to cast. In the case of some in this thread, let's title them as 'kids,' not adult goats... )

I have collected extensive logs of these spirited and stimulating discussions and feel that the method and justification of said format is very tenable. Its marketable if done correctly. Stay tuned. I will initiate a thread within the next 4 to 6 months (in this forum and some others) in which some ideas can be compared and assorted.

MSL01

And to think I was posting here to simply move away from newbie status. I'm deeply hurt by your post - mere vermin making due with table scraps?.

You can, however, ease my pain by giving me the lead in your upcoming reality show. Tremendous premise, documenting the lives of people who spend an inordinate amount of time producing exhaustive responses to faceless messages. An introspective on steroids, no doubt.

SL2003driver

LMAO, I bet c2 will do 3 more pages with even more run on sentences based on your psot.

c2jones

Now come on now, I was not referring to you whatsoever. I said "the only other regulars" here... By this I mean of those that have been active in this thread for quite some time. You were relatively new to this thread. I am strictly referring to those woeful juveniles that are posting all their goofy crap with nothing productive to say.

I have no qualms with you nor would I ever cast unfair titles upon anyone. I am much too composed for that. If someone draws specific critiques from me, be assured that they were well deserving of this and drew this out of me.

I regret your pain. I apologize for allowing your perception. Yet, of course, I cannot grant lead positions to anyone at this point, naturally. If you study my steadfastness in this thread, you will see consistency. I mean what I say and say exactly what I mean. This is to affirm that I take this motive about scripting this atmosphere into a reality series very seriously. I can certainly make this happen, one way or another. I am an executive producer (which means I supply the funds and govern the outcome of said funds/productions). The only issue is the ratings. Will the ratings sustain ample airtime?

The dynamics of just how the script will unfold, and to whom will take center stage as lead characters, has to be determined over tenuous evaluation time. Also, the entertainment business is a copycat entity. Too much info here could give others in the biz ideas and force me to move faster, prematurely, and risk not getting things just right. (I am a bit of a perfectionist, as one might tell.) I have been at this awhile - I know talent/pizazz when I see it. I have searched (and have noted) certain cues.

This has to be done right. Simply throwing everything up against the wall to see what sticks will not work here. Too disorganized, unpredictable, etc. (Do you know that most reality programs are actually scripted with some live elements here and there? One has to be careful. Some are very successful - some totally flop. Survivor was rejected by all the Networks before CBS finally gave in - then look what happened. One never knows.)

This would be for cable market. I could not dream of anything more (unless I found some unexpected niche that somehow blew up - unlikely).

Yes, and this is what makes it so intriguing and unique. Online, no one really knows just whom they're communicating with and, visual perceptions (and other direct reflective observations) cannot play a role - one must make assessments purely upon what one reads and writes and what deeper picture is there. (I have documented so much - let me tell you.) So much is reflective here - call it keyboard anthropology. Its a rare insight into what people are like if they can remain largely anonymous and unable to portray themselves apart their written words. Talk about reality shows - that's true reality. Both mysterious and fascinating.

I'm also doing a few films and will take portions of the reality sequences (of various categories - nightclubs, carmeets, racetracks, sports, etc.) into some of those select films. With regard to MB, I have extensive history with MB Brand Marketing in Montvale. I was a producer for Billboard - did some Music Awards with MB, Aston (then with Ford funds) and Bentley, both in Vegas and South Beach. MB is pushing image right now - safety - stying - leading edge, etc., and anything propelling this is their fancy, and including the bling and the identity aspect. (They practically shoved SLR's into the hands of various rappers.) When Shaq was here in Miami, he and others were always in on the MB parade. (Customized CLK's, etc.) Many celebrity branded events; MB can't get enough of it. Rival BMW is seen as having a pronounced "culture" type following. MB hungers for this. Any format which stages MB owners (as long as they do not embarrass them) would be ripe for the taking.

As Germancar1 states, MB is (finally) improving their reliability and wishes to get its reputation for solid dependability imagery back. (They should have never allowed themselves to get into those dark recent years.) They have been (and still to a great extent), live on their styling allure - which seems to always overcome all else, for better or worse, and they well know it. That said, they would just love to portray a MB euphoria of resilient owners that help said imagery. But this show will not be about them - it will be about people - various people (and how their cars sometimes reflect them), but by-and-large about the world of "faceless messages" you allude to.

I also want to capture some of this testosterone dynamic (Example: ZR1 vs. GTR, etc.) that is running rampant now. Perhaps some "Supercars Exposed" (SPEED) or similar formatted episodes. Or perhaps TopGear US style. I equally love the Corvettes and the passion of their owners - its great material, and great symbolism. A special Jay Leno meets the ZR1 is in order.

Much more to come.

SL2003driver

c2jones

And am I going to really expose some here. Cannon fodder. I will be just completely honest - nothing more. Their words speak for themselves. They're their own worst enemy, as even they (and everyone else) will surely see. I have just the (low-budget) characters set to play them, too. And nevermind the popcorn graphics - few will be able to even hold onto that once they get a load of those guys in all their candor...

SL2003driver

I'm starting to worryabout you, areyolu alrignt?

novabenz

It's a proven scientific fact that many pre-op transexuals have mental breakdowns from the large doses of estrogen needed to accomplish their goal to become a woman.
Once the ********* are removed, there's no going back, C2........

SL2003driver

LMAO

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Time for some more of C2jones' conspiracy theories. Here ya go buddy, debunk this one too:

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/s...29s/#more-5671

c2jones

Oh boy, here comes the fanboy again with his "tsanomi of evidence."

(This was supposed to be a SL65 vs ZR1 thread. But rather than address the topic, we have more of these OFF TOPIC GTR intoxicants running fervently here again. The moderators should create and then move this to a designated "GTR Thread.")

The first report (R&T) was an initial, preliminary test under highly controversial situations for which the ZR1 comparison was given. But one car had the standing start while the other had the flying start, and it does not end there.

The next report, is an official Nissan press release in which as this cannot be separately verified should be guarded against absolute authenticity, of course. This a manufacturers' own advertising plug. Without 3rd party validation, they can claim anything they wish. (Those food supplements do this all the time with little to no outside verification, yet millions flock like sheep for this, too.) Should no one ever duplicate these times, Nissan can just attribute that to weather, etc. And who's to say what tires they were truly using.

The point is, to acclaim the "ZR1 has been unseated" as you have stated, would require far more tests than just these early, scant exercises. There is much more to come here to properly evaluate. These cars are not even out yet. Let's wait and see what happens in the future. Labeling glorified Press Releases as absolute fact confirms only a bias, not a true regard for the truth.

Rushing to judgment is not thinking man's way of arriving at anything. Yet you infer "conspiracy" mindsets of others. Its always the conspiracy people that jump right in on half-baked concoctions without weighing the facts patiently.

"Debunking" something not even reviewed a single time by a single outside source defies the purpose. There are not even any videos or outside corroboration of these latest testing results yet of any sort. This is not to say that Nissan is being dishonest, but rather, that calling any manufacturer's own Press Release a document of fact is premature and reaching.

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Keep deflecting, it's funny at this point. Of course you're not accusing Nissan of lying, you're just....accusing them of lying.

c2jones

No, I'm just sticking to filtered emotions and proper due diligence. And you're funny.

Just saying that manufacturer's own press releases should not instantly be regarded as fact. Its real simple. Seeing it any other way only describes the mindset of the person. One can clearly see this with you. Rather than utter things like your Supra doing east coast barbecues, why not reserve your emotions and allow the full story to develop? It would look a whole lot better on you.

c2jones

Note that Nissan had made claims of their private Skyline times that no one ever duplicated. Let's also not forget there hasn't been a single dyno run of a GT-R that hasn't found it to be at least 60bhp over the quoted power figure...

Regarding that 7:29 - It was timed with a stopwatch and not the (better regarded) timing beams. Few sources regard this as a reliable manner given the technology updates available. (This was a total Nissan insider deal.)

As reported earlier this week, spies again caught the GT-R V-Spec lapping with stopwatches at the ready... getting 7:25 per lap.

This debate will ring on - its anything but final.

Corvette ZR1 engineer says GT-R won't be King of the 'Ring for long:

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/05/02/c...he-ring-for-l/

But this is all way

Cylinder Head

iTrader: (1)

Sigmund Freud over here. I'm not paying you to psychoanalyze me, nor could you do so properly through what I post on this forum, so stop trying to illuminate my mindset.

The full story to develop? What will it be this time, that they hid a JATO rocket on the undertray of the car. Did they do another "flying start" and not hit the stopwatch until the car was a mile away? What's going to be the conspiracy here?

Of course the car makes more power than 473 horsepower. The R34 Skyline made way more than 276 as did the MKIV Supra. Nissan always UNDERSTATES their horsepower numbers, which is due to the draconian horsepower rules Japan imposes on their manufacturers. Just to make 470+ hosepower they had to limit the cars to 110mph so the cops could catch them. If their car wasn't capable of replicating these ring numbers they wouldn't be publishing them, obviously someone is going to test it, and as R&T has already found out the car does what they say it does.

c2jones

To the contrary, I'm afraid, its rather easy when one sticks out like a sore thumb. Nothing advanced needed for this. Sorry.

My goodness I can't believe you just wrote that. I am certain I have you pegged now. Automakers publishing early times that no one ever duplicates is nothing new, especially for Nissan. Can you say Skyline? Sources after the fact have NOTHING to do with a manufacture publishing some outlandish time that fades to memory afterward. That's pure marketing. They do it constantly. No anomaly there. They will just say that the weather or some other aspect must have "influenced" their "original" test(s).

And, that early R&T test is no real supportive tool whatsoever. The controversy around that one is as hot as ever on multiple fronts.

jherbias

The brochure I got for my 350Z said that Nissan won, what was then called, JGTC championships over Porsche and Ferrari. They didn't mention the fact that the Japanese cars were (are) essentially prototypes disguised as road cars in that series. Almost anything that isn't Japanese in that series is a somewhat modified GT car. I wouldn't be surprised if the GT-R Nurburgring numbers are somewhat exaggerated.

c2jones

Precisely. Only time will tell. A refreshing (getting rare now) balanced, open, honest and mature mind for a change. (jherbias - I'll have to watch your postings; you might be one of my featured members in the aforementioned program.)

COR Forged

Most of the comments here are away from the question. These cars are obviously aimed at very different markets. Buy whichever is closest to what you want. But don't knock current GM quality against MBZ build quality. If you read AUTOMOTOR UND SPORT, and SPORT AUTO the main enthusiast magazines in Germany you will find that MBZ is rated about 10th in quality among the brands sold in Germany.....by Germans. BMW is low too. Audi and the Japanese cars are higher, so is Cadillac and Buick. Please buy what you like if you have the disposible income...that is where these cars have the same target market. People who are fortunate enough to afford one or both.
BTW.. the C and E class cars are what kills the reviews in Europe. In those countries they have so many choices in that price range that those models fair badly by comparison.


jerry@corwheels.com

jherbias

I read a similar article in Automobile Magazine a few years ago.

Did the OP ever come back to say what he bought?

c2jones

I know. Its been a real obstacle. There are way too many here well off-topic as I have noted many times. People come strolling in and want to talk about the GTR controversy, etc.

A fantastic point indeed. Very astute and informed. We need a few more like you here in this thread.