lexusking

I have booked my SL55 in to Kleeman in Germany Feb03 for a Vmax delimiter and upgrade to 640BHP. Does any one have this conversion at the moment and can you give me any feedback on the results?

jco-amg

I think you are going to have to change your name to SL55King!

Ronald

Why do you risk your warranty / insurance and don't just have you car de-restricted directly from AMG? Do you really think Kleemann knows the SL 55 electronics better?

As for any perfomance upgrade of the engine: I would only trust people who specialised in tuning AMG engines. And so far only MKB proved that their tunings don't just work, but work for a looooong time.

If MKB performance upgrades aren't powerful enough for you, then why don't you pre-order the limited edition of the SL AMG? It's going to be way in the 600+ bhp region.

Best regards,
Ronald

Lucas

Ronald :

Just for your information, 70-80% of all KLEEMANN compressor systems are build into AMG 55 cars, to say that MKB are the only
company who have proven that their tuning last on AMG vehicles
will not exactly be fair.

Ronald

That exactly proves my point: Ask Kleeman how they re-inforce the gearbox after mounting an Kompressor an an 5.5l engine (they don't) or if they exchange the Aluminium rear axle mounting with a steel one (like on the SL 55 compared to the SL 500). Fact is: They don't!

Kleeman had to admit this last year at the Essen Motor Show and told me that there are unsolved problems. But did they really stop their Kompressor conversions?

Why do you think a company like Brabus gives you 3 years and 100.000 km warranty and Kleeman just one year. And it would be interesting to see what Kleemann says if you have a problem with a gearbox that broke because it couldn't handle the torque. Well, their Kompressor still works, so they'll probably call it an AMG problem...

Regards,
Ronald

mookie

I have said it before and I will say it again. Why would u want to screw with a stock engine that produces 500hp and is back by the manufacture by a 4 year warranty? If you have unlimited money and dont care about problems arising or resale value then do what you want. Change all the component of the engine, but remember this engine has been throughly tested and the car is a awesome super car, enjoy it, but if you are going to f--k with it have MB do it!

Ronald

Here's a part of an article from one of germanys biggest car magazines.

In the middle of the left paragraph, it says that the aluminium rear axle of the SL 500 (basis for Kleemanns SL 50 K) can only stand 500 NM of torque max. - that's why AMG had to use a heavier rear axle of reinforced steel.

The Kleeman SL 50 K engine produces 680 NM of torque...



Regards,
Ronald

Ronald

Or, if 500 bhp is not enough, (pre-)order one of the AMG-Specials. There'll be a successor of the SL 73 (R 129) soon.

I'm driving 150+ miles vey often and visit racetracks about 10 times a year. I won't risk my life by deliberately overstressing critical parts of my car.

But anyone with a Kleemann Kompressor (or a Kleemann tuned AMG Kompressor) who has 15.000+ miles experience, please share your experiences.

Regards,
Ronald

lexusking

I am well aware of the warranty issues but the car is for my personal pleasure and road work rather than track work. I attend racing days in hired single seaters when I want the seat of the pants track experience. If I wanted that experience in a road car I would have a Ferrari, Lamborghini or Pagini.

My aim is to have a relative 'sleeper' - if an SL55AMG can ever be such a thing. No stock changes apart from the brakes and tyres - nothing to notice. So I will have one of the fastest cars on the planet but not necessarily advertise the fact. Does that make
sense?

Can you imagine my pleasure out at 6.00am on a Sunny Sunday Morning in the South of France with my car? With a high degree of comfort / luxury built in which is why we buy the Mercs in the first place. If I wanted only raw power I'd buy a different car.

I am going into this project with open eyes, I know the risks and I know a failure could cost dear but its relative, the expected pleasure is worth the potential cost.

I'll post some pics when the work is done

Lucas

Lexusking :

There is no risk, KLEEMANN back up the work 110%, Ronald is just
one of these guys who lives a boring life.
Ronald, some guys want's to have fun and if AMG comes out with a version with more HP, you will soon find one from KLEEMANN with more.

Ronald

Tell me about the alloy frame again ?????. When MKB makes a 6,2 L of a SL 500 or BRABUS makes a 6,1 or Carlsson makes a 6,0,
do they change the sub frame ????? no they don't.
Do these engines have more than 500 NM ????, yes they do.
Are KLEEMANN, BRABUS; Carlsson cars TÜV approved ????? yes they are. Are German TÜV stupid ?????, I don't think so.
Would MB ever put a sub frame in a car which couldn't take 50 NM
( approx + 10 % ) over stock ????? very unlikely.

Please write about safety and relaiability, when you know what you are talkning about and luckly some have different taste, what a borring world if all where driving a std. AMG car.

Wolfman

Ronald,

I happen to read German and the page of the article is interesting. Could you post the remainder?

For the rest of the board, a quick translation may be interesting as it compares four SL55's against four SL's of others tuners.

Be interesting to share the outcome...

Wolfman

vraa

I wish i could read German, and the small stuff you have just given me now makes me crave for the article in English!

Ronald

HI Wolfman,

I'll have to see if I can find the time to translate the hole article (13 pages!). But first, I'll have to find a dictionary for all those technical words.

The whole article (which compares SLK 32 vs Vaeth SLK 350, SL 55 AMG vs Kleemann SL 50 K and C 32 AMG vs MKB 38/6) can be found here:
http://www.mkb-power.de/content/presse/duell_1.html

Have fun!
Ronald

Mach430

2001 CLK43K with 20,000 miles on my Kleemann Supercharger. I drive the car VERY hard, both on the street and track, and have not had any problems.

Thanks,
Ben

Ronald

I don't have a problem with that at all. I just wanted to let you know that there are definetly risks involved, which might take the whole fun out of it.

The AMG Owners Club will be in Anneu du Rhin (near Colmar) a couple of times this year. Maybe you can join us with your Kleemann on the race track. An engineer (not mechanic!) from AMG will probably be there as well.

Regards,
Ronald

Ronald

Then why just 1 year warranty and only for the kompressor and why not associated parts?

Don't misinterpret me: I quoted a German car magazine, that the rear axle is only good for 500 NM of torque.

I believe what an AMG engineer told me (unofficial): 15% over stock is usually no problem for the car. But taking it up from 460 NM to 680 NM is an increase of almost 50%. I don't think the car was never designed to handle this kind of stress.

And don't get me started on TÜV-inspection: There are different TÜV levels and I can't even begin to cover this topic here.

I don't have any problems with someone tuning their AMG car. I personally made some changes to my car, which AMG does not directly approve.

And I don't have a problem with someone drivining a Kleemann tuned Kompressor on their engine, as long as they are aware of all the risks involved.

Multiple Kleemann salesman / engineers / mechanis lied to my face at the Essen-Motor-Show this year a couple of times. All of which they had to admit later on.

I just want to create an awareness for people to ask the right questions when deciding for a tuning.

I would love to have my SL 55 tuned by Kleemann to 680 bhp, but then I would afterwards:
- reinforce my gearbox and part of the rear axles
- use a bigger exhaust system for the increased flow
- update the brakes to the F1 Safety Car breaks
- reconfigure the suspension
- use bigger rims and tyres
....

Regards,
Ronald

IanPooley

Hi all,

since last friday my dad drives a SL 55 AMG too so I can post here in this forum.

In my exes ronald is right! AMG said while developing the new SL 55 that they had problems with the rear axis. The light aloy rear axis can´t stand the torque of the 5,5 V8 engine. So they replaced it with the heavier steel axis.

Bens CLK´s axis can bear up the torque of the kleemann upgrade. But it´s a 4,3 liter engine and not the new 5,5. Thats the difference (i think).

lexusking

Great - so the SL55 has the steel axle. Presumably the new SL600 will have the same. Mercedes must guess that some people who buy the new SL 600 will go straight to a chip tuner and add 100bhp by replacing the management chip. Of course this will invalidate the warranty but many turbocharged cars are 'chipped'. They must build in a large margin for failure of a warrantied part. The parts fitted surely must be able to handle an increase in power.

If the car is track driven 'very hard' all the time then yes I would expect failures on components left, right and centre over high mileages - its like putting a racing engine into an orinary car without any other mods. But an AMG is already tuned with many added, upgraded parts to handle extra power. I can't believe these will be overstressed in day to day driving albeit with another 150bhp.

Thats the gamble - but then life is a gamble as sson as you drive on any road.

Thanks for the various constructive responses.

morebhp

Good look to you Lexusking - looking at that list of cars you can afford it, if there are one or two 'issues'.

I'm sure most of us would like 'more' bhp, torque, etc.

You are going into this with your eye's open. I envy you the 'extra'. Enjoy it and report back how it goes.

Bilal

I have read the whole thread, and well there are certainly pros and cons, but I believe Ronald mostly, because he has has an SL55 and because he has latest info from germany/AMg and all these tuning firms, he is THE man to get info from!!! Period.

As for the SL65 AMG, gees, If I had the money, I think at the dealership I would have wet my pants before ordering one!


If you want REAL fast performance and don't mind sacrificing a little luxury, buy A Corvette Z06, take it to lingenfelter and ask for the 50K package.

0-60mph in 2.9 seconds, check out some of teh videos of teh 427 CID turbo Corvette in media section at www.lingenfelter.com

and then tell me who is the ultimate tuner?

Lucas

Ronald is the man, he knows everything because he can read german car magazines. ( Who says the car magazine knows anything ).

This magazine Ronald shows a copy from, look at the track times
some curves the AMG is faster than the KLEEMANN, and some curves the KLEEMANN is faster than the AMG and it's not a little difference. In my opinion, If a car have a suspension and tires which is better than on another car, then it will be faster all over the track. This test can't be taken serious.
I happened to be at that airport where the test was made (some where between Bremen and Bremerhaven, I forgot the name ) and spoke for several hours with the test drivers and journalists while the tests was made. The test driver said the BRABUS 6,7 V12 wasn't faster than the AMG S 55 in the test, I thing they forgot to write about that.

Ronald please help me with a name on one of the "MULTIPLE" KLEEMANN salesmen / engeneers / mechanics, who lied to you
serval times, how many people where there ?????.
2 from Germany, 2-3 from Denmark, where 3 of these persons never would take up a technical discoussion with any one.
This leaves you with 2 persons ???? who was it and what did he lie about serval times ?????.

vraa

Bilal is trying to poison our minds!

LexusKing: Doesn't the V12 motors have more torque then the 55 engines? So a steel axle is almost mandatory is the 55 gets it?

IanPooley

HI,

this is offtopic but ok
The ultimate tuner ist weineck. Watch out for the Weineck Cobra This car kills everything!

IanPooley

HI Lucas,

whats the problem? If u got a kleemann car and contented with it than its allright. Ronald is just telling you that the AMG - tuned cars will at least stay longer "alive". Thats all.

Ronald

I've been at the Kleemaan-booth with two friends (C 55 estate and E 55 estate) for almost 1,5 hours to talk about our cars. There were 2 girls at the entrance, one woman behind a counter and 4 mechanics / engineers running around. We talked to all of them in detail.

I can only remember the first names of two of them, but one of my friends got their business cards.

But I'm not getting back at them here personally. They apologized afterwards. I accepted. End of story (for me).

Ronald