SL55/63/65/R230 AMG: SL600 vs SL65
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
Amazing the inconsistencies in peoples stories on what they own/lease (and what they know about the vehicle they own/lease) on this site.
I was having a conversation with a member here who has a well-modded SL600 and we came to the conclusion that if you keep cars stock or close to stock then the 65 is the better buy (lsd, bigger brakes, susp, .5L extra displacement and 100bhp/150lbft) but if you're into modding then the sizable saving and near-identical gains on an SL600 makes better sense.
I was having a conversation with a member here who has a well-modded SL600 and we came to the conclusion that if you keep cars stock or close to stock then the 65 is the better buy (lsd, bigger brakes, susp, .5L extra displacement and 100bhp/150lbft) but if you're into modding then the sizable saving and near-identical gains on an SL600 makes better sense.
As for your second remark.. hooray we agree!!
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'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
quite true, what I meant was I have experienced what it's like to drive a car
with a 65 engine as apposed to driving a car with the 600 engine. I presume
it doesn't matter what body it's in the engine differences remain the same.
What engine differences are there between a SL65 and a CL65?
with a 65 engine as apposed to driving a car with the 600 engine. I presume
it doesn't matter what body it's in the engine differences remain the same.
What engine differences are there between a SL65 and a CL65?Tom
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
Wow...did you really just say that??? Just because two cars share the same engine doesn't mean the driving experience is the same! The SL65 is over 100lbs lighter than the CL65...the SL65 has an AMG limited slip differential...the CL65 does not. A stock SL65 rides on 285mm wide rear tires...the CL65 rides on 275mm rear tires. Although these differences are subtle, they have a decided impact on driving dynamics and overall performance. Once again you are comparing apples (SL) to oranges (CL)....rather than apples (SL) to apples (SL).
Tom
Tom
when accelertaing in a stragt line, you get a bigger difference from 1 passenger to 2. Of course the whole experience will be different, my CL roof
didn't go into the boot.
And you forgot the biggest thing, they look totally different!
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'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Tom you know as well as I do these things won't make a hapeth of difference
when accelertaing in a stragt line, you get a bigger difference from 1 passenger to 2. Of course the whole experience will be different, my CL roof
didn't go into the boot.
And you forgot the biggest thing, they look totally different!
when accelertaing in a stragt line, you get a bigger difference from 1 passenger to 2. Of course the whole experience will be different, my CL roof
didn't go into the boot.
And you forgot the biggest thing, they look totally different!
I love how you backpedal your arguments between straight line performance and handling performance.... pretty amusing ....but in this case BOTH STRAIGHT LINE AND HANDLING PERFORMANCE ARE AFFECTED BY THE DIFFERENCES MENTIONED!
Tom
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
Oh really....I guess all the performance tests showing the SL65 running faster times has nothing to do with 100lbs less weight, wider tires and LSD...
I love how you backpedal your arguments between straight line performance and handling performance.... pretty amusing ....but in this case BOTH STRAIGHT LINE AND HANDLING PERFORMANCE ARE AFFECTED BY THE DIFFERENCES MENTIONED!
Tom
I love how you backpedal your arguments between straight line performance and handling performance.... pretty amusing ....but in this case BOTH STRAIGHT LINE AND HANDLING PERFORMANCE ARE AFFECTED BY THE DIFFERENCES MENTIONED!
Tom
As far as your comments go, 2 drivers 1 weighs 100 lbs the other 200 lbs,
10m on tyres and LSD on a dry day. Tch,Tch
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'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Are the people wearing the same clothes and attire...although to make it fair...they should do it naked so there is no additional weight for the 200lbs driver (bigger girth...more area of clothing needed...more weight).
Have you ever heard of the term "all things being equal"? That means when you do a valid comparison you try to get all the variables equal to isolate the comparison to the two objects being compared. In the case of car comparisons...you try to do the comparison test using the same environment which includes using the same driver, under the same weather conditions, using the same grade and amount of fuel. Some car magazines have a checklist of things they do to approximate as closely as they can these ambient conditions.
You will notice that the topic is SL600 vs SL65. This isn't SL600 with 100lbs driver vs SL65 with 200lbs driver. I think (but maybe I am wrong) that people were discussing the merits of purchasing one over the other. That would mean that the person driving the car is in theory the same person...i.e. the prospective purchaser.
Tom
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
It is actually 20mm...you know ..two tyres... which is about 4% more contact (every little bit counts). As far as the LSD, it will be helpful in both wet and dry conditions...and especially helpful on non-level surfaces. Although at the drag track, the LSD wouldn't help out much if both cars had properly heated drag radials. But in real world conditions...on stock tires...yes the LSD helps out.
Are the people wearing the same clothes and attire...although to make it fair...they should do it naked so there is no additional weight for the 200lbs driver (bigger girth...more area of clothing needed...more weight).
Have you ever heard of the term "all things being equal"? That means when you do a valid comparison you try to get all the variables equal to isolate the comparison to the two objects being compared. In the case of car comparisons...you try to do the comparison test using the same environment which includes using the same driver, under the same weather conditions, using the same grade and amount of fuel. Some car magazines have a checklist of things they do to approximate as closely as they can these ambient conditions.
You will notice that the topic is SL600 vs SL65. This isn't SL600 with 100lbs driver vs SL65 with 200lbs driver. I think (but maybe I am wrong) that people were discussing the merits of purchasing one over the other. That would mean that the person driving the car is in theory the same person...i.e. the prospective purchaser.
Tom
Are the people wearing the same clothes and attire...although to make it fair...they should do it naked so there is no additional weight for the 200lbs driver (bigger girth...more area of clothing needed...more weight).
Have you ever heard of the term "all things being equal"? That means when you do a valid comparison you try to get all the variables equal to isolate the comparison to the two objects being compared. In the case of car comparisons...you try to do the comparison test using the same environment which includes using the same driver, under the same weather conditions, using the same grade and amount of fuel. Some car magazines have a checklist of things they do to approximate as closely as they can these ambient conditions.
You will notice that the topic is SL600 vs SL65. This isn't SL600 with 100lbs driver vs SL65 with 200lbs driver. I think (but maybe I am wrong) that people were discussing the merits of purchasing one over the other. That would mean that the person driving the car is in theory the same person...i.e. the prospective purchaser.
Tom
that, i am not stupid! however being a nat *** engine the climate will not affect it like a turbo car. I probably tried my stock SL63 at least 50 times ( it's on the way home ) and the best I got was 124 mph. The first time I tried the re -mapped SL63 I got 130mph, since then I have tried numerous times to beat it, but it remains between 128 to around 131 with 130 being consistently shown. I can't be fairer than that. No way would you get that sort of increase by adding 12-20 bhp.
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Of course the weather and many other things will influence the results,I know
that, i am not stupid! however being a nat *** engine the climate will not affect it like a turbo car. I probably tried my stock SL63 at least 50 times ( it's on the way home ) and the best I got was 124 mph. The first time I tried the re -mapped SL63 I got 130mph, since then I have tried numerous times to beat it, but it remains between 128 to around 131 with 130 being consistently shown. I can't be fairer than that. No way would you get that sort of increase by adding 12-20 bhp.
that, i am not stupid! however being a nat *** engine the climate will not affect it like a turbo car. I probably tried my stock SL63 at least 50 times ( it's on the way home ) and the best I got was 124 mph. The first time I tried the re -mapped SL63 I got 130mph, since then I have tried numerous times to beat it, but it remains between 128 to around 131 with 130 being consistently shown. I can't be fairer than that. No way would you get that sort of increase by adding 12-20 bhp.
Let me ask, did the mysterious tuners of your car change any of your transmission settings...such as the RPMs at which your car shifts?
Tom
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
So you increased your speed through some section of road by 4.8%. Depending on the circumstances, there are plenty of ways 12-20 peak hp can account for that increase in speed. In fact, I have seen 0 peak hp gain on the dyno but trapped 2.6mph higher at the end of the 1/4 mile. There are other factors that can help performance.
Let me ask, did the mysterious tuners of your car change any of your transmission settings...such as the RPMs at which your car shifts?
Tom
Let me ask, did the mysterious tuners of your car change any of your transmission settings...such as the RPMs at which your car shifts?
Tom
that's an extra 35 which I think is possible. I will publish the results whatever they are, I think you will agree I am not a cheat and published my quarter mile times even when they were not good, until you pointed out how inaccurate my machine could be.
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'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
So you increased your speed through some section of road by 4.8%. Depending on the circumstances, there are plenty of ways 12-20 peak hp can account for that increase in speed. In fact, I have seen 0 peak hp gain on the dyno but trapped 2.6mph higher at the end of the 1/4 mile. There are other factors that can help performance.
Let me ask, did the mysterious tuners of your car change any of your transmission settings...such as the RPMs at which your car shifts?
Tom
Let me ask, did the mysterious tuners of your car change any of your transmission settings...such as the RPMs at which your car shifts?
Tom
Tom instead of guessing what was done, let's just wait until I take it to a dyno. People are starting to exaggerate, I have stated that I was told 560+
that's an extra 35 which I think is possible. I will publish the results whatever they are, I think you will agree I am not a cheat and published my quarter mile times even when they were not good, until you pointed out how inaccurate my machine could be.
that's an extra 35 which I think is possible. I will publish the results whatever they are, I think you will agree I am not a cheat and published my quarter mile times even when they were not good, until you pointed out how inaccurate my machine could be.
Can you answer that question?
Tom
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
Tom, a friend came, plugged in his laptop and after an hour. we took it for a run. I have been in the business a long time, so paying retail is not the option.
I know the guy very,very well, and he has re-mapped several cars for me in the last 10 years,these are some of them, Evo 6, Subaru STI,Evo 7 GTA,
Audi RS6, Misubishi Mirage, Golf GTi, and some more, he is a genius. Whether
he used the same programme as other tuners I don't know, if he doesn't want to tell me too much that's up to him, these programmes must be worth a fortune.
As I said I am going to take it to an independant company with a rolling road at the end of next week. They have told me the only problem they might have is the gearbox overheating, so how many runs may come into it.
Let's hope it's got around 560, or I will be eating humble pie!
I know the guy very,very well, and he has re-mapped several cars for me in the last 10 years,these are some of them, Evo 6, Subaru STI,Evo 7 GTA,
Audi RS6, Misubishi Mirage, Golf GTi, and some more, he is a genius. Whether
he used the same programme as other tuners I don't know, if he doesn't want to tell me too much that's up to him, these programmes must be worth a fortune.
As I said I am going to take it to an independant company with a rolling road at the end of next week. They have told me the only problem they might have is the gearbox overheating, so how many runs may come into it.
Let's hope it's got around 560, or I will be eating humble pie!
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GL550
Tom, a friend came, plugged in his laptop and after an hour. we took it for a run. I have been in the business a long time, so paying retail is not the option.
I know the guy very,very well, and he has re-mapped several cars for me in the last 10 years,these are some of them, Evo 6, Subaru STI,Evo 7 GTA,
Audi RS6, Misubishi Mirage, Golf GTi, and some more, he is a genius. Whether
he used the same programme as other tuners I don't know, if he doesn't want to tell me too much that's up to him, these programmes must be worth a fortune.
As I said I am going to take it to an independant company with a rolling road at the end of next week. They have told me the only problem they might have is the gearbox overheating, so how many runs may come into it.
Let's hope it's got around 560, or I will be eating humble pie!
I know the guy very,very well, and he has re-mapped several cars for me in the last 10 years,these are some of them, Evo 6, Subaru STI,Evo 7 GTA,
Audi RS6, Misubishi Mirage, Golf GTi, and some more, he is a genius. Whether
he used the same programme as other tuners I don't know, if he doesn't want to tell me too much that's up to him, these programmes must be worth a fortune.
As I said I am going to take it to an independant company with a rolling road at the end of next week. They have told me the only problem they might have is the gearbox overheating, so how many runs may come into it.
Let's hope it's got around 560, or I will be eating humble pie!
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
seriously, i have been biting my lips not to say anything, but I would LOVE for you to stop talking about this genius software for the moment. I am glad that your friend has vast experience tuning japanese cars and an audi rs6, but I see no experience in tuning MB let alone an amg. Please go do a dyno test with this software and show us the before and after on the same dyno and then we can proceed from there.
I have only mentioned him ONCE!
And the cars I mention belonged to me, not the limit of his re-mapping abilities.
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'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Tom, a friend came, plugged in his laptop and after an hour. we took it for a run. I have been in the business a long time, so paying retail is not the option.
I know the guy very,very well, and he has re-mapped several cars for me in the last 10 years,these are some of them, Evo 6, Subaru STI,Evo 7 GTA,
Audi RS6, Misubishi Mirage, Golf GTi, and some more, he is a genius. Whether
he used the same programme as other tuners I don't know, if he doesn't want to tell me too much that's up to him, these programmes must be worth a fortune.
As I said I am going to take it to an independant company with a rolling road at the end of next week. They have told me the only problem they might have is the gearbox overheating, so how many runs may come into it.
Let's hope it's got around 560, or I will be eating humble pie!
I know the guy very,very well, and he has re-mapped several cars for me in the last 10 years,these are some of them, Evo 6, Subaru STI,Evo 7 GTA,
Audi RS6, Misubishi Mirage, Golf GTi, and some more, he is a genius. Whether
he used the same programme as other tuners I don't know, if he doesn't want to tell me too much that's up to him, these programmes must be worth a fortune.
As I said I am going to take it to an independant company with a rolling road at the end of next week. They have told me the only problem they might have is the gearbox overheating, so how many runs may come into it.
Let's hope it's got around 560, or I will be eating humble pie!
I also find it curious that you think your car will dyno 560hp. What type of "rolling road" dyno spits out crank hp figures?
Tom
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SL 63 W/B AMG , S600,C220
flywheel figure by measuring the power at the wheels?
My my you are behind!
Why is it curious to want to know how much bhp you have, it's a subject you never stop talking about
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GLC 63 S AMG / Corvette C8 / Jaguar SVR
how does an ecu tune only sl600 fair against an sl55 with 172/175 pulley AND tune?
what is the outcome? the sl600 has more tq but sl55 more hp? Can someone chime in. thank you.
what is the outcome? the sl600 has more tq but sl55 more hp? Can someone chime in. thank you.
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
This is the beauty of the V12TT. The HP can come very cheap.
Didn't you sell your SL55?
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The SL600 has more torque AND more HP. It will crush the 55K, given those mods. My shelf tune only SL600 is running mid 11's in bad air. Should be a low 11 sec car with DRs and good D.A.
This is the beauty of the V12TT. The HP can come very cheap.
Didn't you sell your SL55?
This is the beauty of the V12TT. The HP can come very cheap.
Didn't you sell your SL55?
Yep, and I regret it.. I was going to get a c6 z06.. then yesterday I had 2 days back to back with 55 degrees, and I was like regardless of liking a manual trans with 500+ hp.. I would rather be able to take the hardtop off and have a vert.
So now, I am in the process of finding something again..
I am contemplating a 600 vs the 55 I had.. a tune only 600 vs a pulley/tune 55.. i didn't realize there was that big of a difference.. how much hp/tq diff is there? and your talking .3 seconds in the 1/4 amongst the 2 (given you use the same driver)?
BTW: who did your ecu tune benz-o-rama?
Did you dyno it yet? planning any other mods, or happy with tune only? Stock air filters?
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
Yep, and I regret it.. I was going to get a c6 z06.. then yesterday I had 2 days back to back with 55 degrees, and I was like regardless of liking a manual trans with 500+ hp.. I would rather be able to take the hardtop off and have a vert.
So now, I am in the process of finding something again..
I am contemplating a 600 vs the 55 I had.. a tune only 600 vs a pulley/tune 55.. i didn't realize there was that big of a difference.. how much hp/tq diff is there? and your talking .3 seconds in the 1/4 amongst the 2 (given you use the same driver)?
BTW: who did your ecu tune benz-o-rama?
Did you dyno it yet? planning any other mods, or happy with tune only? Stock air filters?
So now, I am in the process of finding something again..
I am contemplating a 600 vs the 55 I had.. a tune only 600 vs a pulley/tune 55.. i didn't realize there was that big of a difference.. how much hp/tq diff is there? and your talking .3 seconds in the 1/4 amongst the 2 (given you use the same driver)?
BTW: who did your ecu tune benz-o-rama?
Did you dyno it yet? planning any other mods, or happy with tune only? Stock air filters?
I did dyno it on a historically very low reading Dyno Dynamics. I put down 484 and 610 to the wheels, after tune. I don't know Sunir's dyno numbers. But, as we have all learned on here too many times, dyno numbers mean squat. It's the 1/4 mile MPH, that tells the real story. I don't care how much experience you have racing or how much you don't have, the trap speed will be consistent. Dynos are pretty much worthless, except to use as a tuning tool.
If you want to go fast, but only in a straight line, the SL600 is a no-brainer. The ability to squeeze massive HP/TQ out of these cars, cheaply, makes it the perfect weapon for the modder who wants to race it, but also be comfortable driving it.
If you want to road race the car, than the AMG is the way to go. It costs so much more money to get the same power out of a 55K car as it's V12TT brother.
No more performance mods planned right now. The car is plenty quick.
Eurocharged has many tuning days all over the country, so it's very easy to get a tune from them. Mine has been great.
Last edited by Benz-O-Rama; Jan 17, 2010 at 01:11 PM.
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nice man! your very much swaying me toward the 600. The car is a fair weather DD, and highway runner (most of my driving)
Yeah dynos are nothing, i was just curious what you put down. Is sunirs car just tune? Stock pulley? cause if he put a 172/180 in there then he would drop that 12.02 down some...
Also are your air filters stock?
On the 600 do you have the problem with the pump? Like in my 55 i replaced the stock pump with the johnson (do you do that for the 600 too, or doesnt require that)?
Yeah dynos are nothing, i was just curious what you put down. Is sunirs car just tune? Stock pulley? cause if he put a 172/180 in there then he would drop that 12.02 down some...
Also are your air filters stock?
On the 600 do you have the problem with the pump? Like in my 55 i replaced the stock pump with the johnson (do you do that for the 600 too, or doesnt require that)?
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
nice man! your very much swaying me toward the 600. The car is a fair weather DD, and highway runner (most of my driving)
Yeah dynos are nothing, i was just curious what you put down. Is sunirs car just tune? Stock pulley? cause if he put a 172/180 in there then he would drop that 12.02 down some...
Also are your air filters stock?
On the 600 do you have the problem with the pump? Like in my 55 i replaced the stock pump with the johnson (do you do that for the 600 too, or doesnt require that)?
Yeah dynos are nothing, i was just curious what you put down. Is sunirs car just tune? Stock pulley? cause if he put a 172/180 in there then he would drop that 12.02 down some...
Also are your air filters stock?
On the 600 do you have the problem with the pump? Like in my 55 i replaced the stock pump with the johnson (do you do that for the 600 too, or doesnt require that)?
The I/C pump can fail in the V12TTs as well, I just don't think it's as common of a failure. And it's more than sufficient, when operating properly.
If your SL is going to be a DD, then the 600 is the way to go. It's a much smoother ride, and quieter in the cabin due to the muted exhaust. But, if you want to uncork the beast, you do a simple muffler delete like many of us have. The car sounds quite angry that way. I wouldn't suggest it for a daily driver though. Just my opinion.
Can't go wrong with either choice. Feel blessed that you're lucky enough to have such a decision to make.
Oh, yes...my filters are stock. And actually, still the original ones. The car just ticked over 20K miles on her.
Last edited by Benz-O-Rama; Jan 17, 2010 at 03:02 PM.
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GLC 63 S AMG / Corvette C8 / Jaguar SVR
whe i switched filters on my 55, i noticed a bit of a sound increase - like sucking in air, so i assume they were working better. I think they were k&ns.. any plans to replace yours?
Also, the muffler delete on the 600.. is it louder than the sl55 is stock? you said for a dd (you personally) wouldn't do it.. wonder how much louder over a stock 55 it is.
Also, the muffler delete on the 600.. is it louder than the sl55 is stock? you said for a dd (you personally) wouldn't do it.. wonder how much louder over a stock 55 it is.
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Eurocharged 2004 E500, Eurocharged ECU/TCU 2005 SL600, 2010 Caddy SwaggerWagon
whe i switched filters on my 55, i noticed a bit of a sound increase - like sucking in air, so i assume they were working better. I think they were k&ns.. any plans to replace yours?
Also, the muffler delete on the 600.. is it louder than the sl55 is stock? you said for a dd (you personally) wouldn't do it.. wonder how much louder over a stock 55 it is.
Also, the muffler delete on the 600.. is it louder than the sl55 is stock? you said for a dd (you personally) wouldn't do it.. wonder how much louder over a stock 55 it is.
It's definitely louder than a stock SL55. And a much, MUCH different sounding exhaust, due to the nature of the power plant.
A video is worth a thousand words....
My iPhone was upside down in this one for some reason:
And then two cruising videos from inside the cabin.
Make no mistake, it sounds absolutely orgasmic. Cruising in the highway, it's barely louder than stock, if you can believe that. The wind noise tends to drown it out. But if you do a lot of stop and go and rural road cruising on your daily commute, you might find it over bearing.
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GLC 63 S AMG / Corvette C8 / Jaguar SVR
my commute is mainly highway, so that sounds perfect to my ears 
no drone at 60mph? (sometimes I hit traffic and im slowed to 55-60 on highway)
any drone anytime?
Also, you have strictly an ecu tune? (no thermostat, no upgraded h/e, etc)?
no drone at 60mph? (sometimes I hit traffic and im slowed to 55-60 on highway)any drone anytime?
Also, you have strictly an ecu tune? (no thermostat, no upgraded h/e, etc)?
Last edited by InTheBenz0; Jan 17, 2010 at 04:03 PM.
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'14 E63S & '14 Audi SQ5
Tom
